Would you do Staal & Hanifin + for ROR & RNH?

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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I doubt Slavin ever gets any PP time (except mop-up duty when the team puts him and Pesce out in the final seconds) and he'll always get the toughest assignment defensively, so it won't surprise me if he never gets more than mid-high 30s for points.

Hanifin has more offensive skill. His shot needs work though for him to really be an offensive threat. Not saying he needs a booming slap shot, but it at least has to be good enough for other teams to respect it, which would open up more opportunities.
 

A Star is Burns

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I doubt Slavin ever gets any PP time (except mop-up duty when the team puts him and Pesce out in the final seconds) and he'll always get the toughest assignment defensively, so it won't surprise me if he never gets more than mid-high 30s for points.

Hanifin has more offensive skill. His shot needs work though for him to really be an offensive threat. Not saying he needs a booming slap shot, but it at least has to be good enough for other teams to respect it, which would open up more opportunities.
I think his shot improved slightly this last year, but it does need to improve more. I think he'll see the most gains when he is more confident and smart about when to join plays, or skate it deeper into the zone to create offense. He's the type of player that should be able to go very deep in the offensive zone, create offense, and still get back with his skating. He just needs to figure out how to put that together. Maybe he'll see some gains in that area under a different coach as well.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I think he'll see the most gains when he is more confident and smart about when to join plays, or skate it deeper into the zone to create offense. He's the type of player that should be able to go very deep in the offensive zone, create offense, and still get back with his skating. He just needs to figure out how to put that together. Maybe he'll see some gains in that area under a different coach as well.

All true. I was thinking more on the PP when I mentioned his shot. If he's going to continue to man one of the points on the PP, then his shot has to be better in that role.
 

NotOpie

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All true. I was thinking more on the PP when I mentioned his shot. If he's going to continue to man one of the points on the PP, then his shot has to be better in that role.
If, as rumors have suggested, Faulk ends up getting traded, Hanifin is the most likely beneficiary of additional power play time. That alone should boost his offensive numbers.
 

LakeLivin

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Ok, I know I'm in the minority here regarding Slavin's offensive potential, and I'm fine with that. But my impression was that Peters turned Slavin loose towards the end of the year and his offensive production went way up, so I took a look at game stats and Slavin had 12 points in the 19 games from March on. As far as actual stats:

games​
goals​
assists​
points​
EvS
TOI​
PP
TOI​
O zone
starts​
EvS
Shot%​
Slavin​
82​
8​
22​
30​
1,589m​
50m​
48%​
7.4%​
Hanifin​
79​
10​
22​
32​
1,341m​
142m​
63%​
6.5%​
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So, very similar overall scoring stats. Hanifin had a lot more PP time (92 more minutes), Slavin had a lot more even strength ice time (248 more minutes). Hanifin started significantly more often in our offensive zone.

I do get that Hanifin is 3 years younger, which is a big deal when projecting progress going forward. And that Slavin will likely always have less opportunity to score because he's so much better defensively and will be deployed as such. But as far as actual offensive effectiveness this past season, I can't say that Hanifin was better than Slavin.

Again, I know that my belief that Slavin has a lot more O in him (if given the opportunity) puts me in the minority. But, I'll wager that almost everyone on this board who disagrees with me hopes that I'm right. :D
 

MinJaBen

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Ok, I know I'm in the minority here regarding Slavin's offensive potential, and I'm fine with that. But my impression was that Peters turned Slavin loose towards the end of the year and his offensive production went way up, so I took a look at game stats and Slavin had 12 points in the 19 games from March on. As far as actual stats:

games​
goals​
assists​
points​
EvS
TOI​
PP
TOI​
O zone
starts​
EvS
Shot%​
Slavin​
82​
8​
22​
30​
1,589m​
50m​
48%​
7.4%​
Hanifin​
79​
10​
22​
32​
1,341m​
142m​
63%​
6.5%​
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
So, very similar overall scoring stats. Hanifin had a lot more PP time (92 more minutes), Slavin had a lot more even strength ice time (248 more minutes). Hanifin started significantly more often in our offensive zone.

I do get that Hanifin is 3 years younger, which is a big deal when projecting progress going forward. And that Slavin will likely always have less opportunity to score because he's so much better defensively and will be deployed as such. But as far as actual offensive effectiveness this past season, I can't say that Hanifin was better than Slavin.

Again, I know that my belief that Slavin has a lot more O in him (if given the opportunity) puts me in the minority. But, I'll wager that almost everyone on this board who disagrees with me hopes that I'm right. :D
I think Slavin’s production did the same thing the year before when we were in desperation mode that year, too. I think that was more a function of having little to lose and playing on the edge as a team then his true offensive potential.
 
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Finlandia WOAT

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May 23, 2010
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slavin never walked the line. he gravitated to his corner and once there either whipped it around the boards, activated himself down the boards or threw it toward the net.

other teams knew it too, they committed 100% to the shot and rushed him daring him to make them look silly

I'm pretty sure he was told to do this. idk why. i also think he's underrated offensively.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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Pacioretty + Galchenyuk for Hanifin + Staal ??

I'd rather have Staal than Galchenyuk
I'd rather have Hanifin than 1 year of Pacioretty

So wouldn't do this deal. Particularly because Staal is our only true C that is proven and takes all the toughest assignments. Moving him right now would leave a huge hole, especially of the main guy coming back hasn't been able to play C on a team that needs a C badly.
 

Runner77

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I'd rather have Staal than Galchenyuk
I'd rather have Hanifin than 1 year of Pacioretty

So wouldn't do this deal. Particularly because Staal is our only true C that is proven and takes all the toughest assignments. Moving him right now would leave a huge hole, especially of the main guy coming back hasn't been able to play C on a team that needs a C badly.

That's not really an indicator. The team is badly mismanaged and the GM is calling the shots on what position certain players can and cannot play. The GM decided that Drouin is a center when everyone, including those who coached him in the past, agree that he's a winger. The GM also declared at the start of last season that Galchenyuk would never play center again. And the coach did not dare veer from that, despite the parade of players used at center last year on account of mounting injuries.

Galchenyuk was mishandled by both Bergevin and Therrien. Therrien is one of the worst coaches of all time. He favored the likes of Desharnais over Galchenyuk, limited Galchenyuk's minutes and slotted him with the team's worst linemates. If you look at Galchenyuk's stats, he was most productive when used as a center.
 
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spockBokk

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That's not really an indicator. The team is badly mismanaged and the GM is calling the shots on what position certain players can and cannot play. The GM decided that Drouin is a center when everyone, including those who coached him in the past, agree that he's a winger. The GM also declared at the start of last season that Galchenyuk would never play center again. And the coach did not dare veer from that, despite the parade of players used at center last year on account of mounting injuries.

Galchenyuk was mishandled by both Bergevin and Therrien. Therrien is one of the worst coaches of all time. He favored the likes of Desharnais over Galchenyuk, limited Galchenyuk's minutes and slotted him with the team's worst linemates. If you look at Galchenyuk's stats, he was most productive when used as a center.

Staal is 33 and has one year left on his deal. I'd don't know about favoring Staal over Galchenyuk who is only 24 and is signed until 2020.

uhm...E Staal is 33 and plays for MIN, Jordan is 29. I'm assuming the original crappy proposal referred to Jordan...
 

Runner77

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Perhaps Galchenyuk could go on to be a 55-60 point C outside of Montreal. However, that’s not something a team will count on or pay for. I don’t think other NHL organizations would view Therrien and Julien with the same level of skepticism and derision that Montreal fans do.

Oh, you have no idea. Therrien was out of a job for 4 years when Bergevin plucked him out of a TV sports show. He did nothing to work his way back into the coaching ranks. I doubt he finds another job after he lucked out with his great buddy Bergevin.

As for the degree of skepticism and "derision" you are ascribing to "Montreal fans", it doesn't look to me that you are remotely aware of what has really been going on in Montreal under Bergevin. I've been watching it day in and day out for 6 years.

But, out of respect for this forum, I don't want to detract from the discussion, it's not going to add anything. Suffice to say that Galchenyuk can probably be had cheaper than he's worth as his GM is not fond of him and that could spell a deal for a potential suitor.
 

GoldiFox

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Oh, you have no idea. Therrien was out of a job for 4 years when Bergevin plucked him out of a TV sports show. He did nothing to work his way back into the coaching ranks. I doubt he finds another job after he lucked out with his great buddy Bergevin.

As for the degree of skepticism and "derision" you are ascribing to "Montreal fans", it doesn't look to me that you are remotely aware of what has really been going on in Montreal under Bergevin. I've been watching it day in and day out for 6 years.

But, out of respect for this forum, I don't want to detract from the discussion, it's not going to add anything. Suffice to say that Galchenyuk can probably be had cheaper than he's worth as his GM is not fond of him and that could spell a deal for a potential suitor.

It’s not a foreign concept for Canes fans. I don’t see too much of a difference between Lindholm and Galchenyuk. Both could be dealt for less than they are potentially worth due to years of mismanagement.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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Oh, you have no idea. Therrien was out of a job for 4 years when Bergevin plucked him out of a TV sports show. He did nothing to work his way back into the coaching ranks. I doubt he finds another job after he lucked out with his great buddy Bergevin.

As for the degree of skepticism and "derision" you are ascribing to "Montreal fans", it doesn't look to me that you are remotely aware of what has really been going on in Montreal under Bergevin. I've been watching it day in and day out for 6 years.

But, out of respect for this forum, I don't want to detract from the discussion, it's not going to add anything. Suffice to say that Galchenyuk can probably be had cheaper than he's worth as his GM is not fond of him and that could spell a deal for a potential suitor.

Whether the disdain Habs fans have had for the coaches and management is warranted or not wasn’t my point. I don’t see other NHL teams looking at Galchenyuk and seeing a center that has been held back by Therrien/Julien in the same way Habs fans do. 2 separate coaches have kept him on the wing primarily, if what Habs fans have posted is accurate, through 6 NHL seasons.

I’m not discounting the possibility that he could play there. I just don’t see it as something another team counts on or pays extra for. FWIW, I view Elias Lindholm in the exact same way.
 

Runner77

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Whether the disdain Habs fans have had for the coaches and management is warranted or not wasn’t my point. I don’t see other NHL teams looking at Galchenyuk and seeing a center that has been held back by Therrien/Julien in the same way Habs fans do. 2 separate coaches have kept him on the wing primarily, if what Habs fans have posted is accurate, through 6 NHL seasons.

I’m not discounting the possibility that he could play there. I just don’t see it as something another team counts on or pays extra for. FWIW, I view Elias Lindholm in the exact same way.

Again, you're just looking at what the coaches did in a vacuum. You're completely disregarding the intrusiveness and iron clad orders coming from the GM.

Here's what the GM said about Galchenyuk in September last year:

Marc Bergevin has all but ruled out that Alex Galchenyuk will play centre at any point. Says he's seen enough to know it won't work.
— Eric Engels (@EricEngels) September 11, 2017

Player deployment and assignments are a head coach's prerogative as far as I know. But not with Bergevin.

Galchenyuk was drafted as a center so the idea that he can't play there, is a result of how the Habs handled him. I've seen every shift, every lineup, I've seen how he's been deployed and who has been favored over him and how it's impacted him. I can understand how you can see it differently looking at it from the outside, referring to "2 separate coaches" to try and bolster your argument. However, this is not about coaching, there is a particular dynamic at play in the way the coaches have been instructed to handle him.

I think he'll flourish elsewhere cause it's pretty well established that he's in a straight jacket and they're favoring other players who have more limited experience at center and who have lower potential, over him.

Even if as you claim, it turns out he won't be a center, he's only 24 and has a lot of offensive ability. I'm merely suggesting that he'll do better elsewhere.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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I’m not claiming that he won’t be a center. All I’m saying is that the team looking to acquire him will see him and value him as a W with the potential to play C. That team won’t view him as a guarantee to play there full-time; he doesn’t have the track record. The way Montreal has handled him, regardless of who’s driving the decision making, does not inspire confidence. Is that fair to Galchenyuk? No.

Yes, I’m 100% looking at things from the outside. However, I do understand the points you’re making. I just don’t think they’ll matter that much to GMs throughout the league. JMO.

EDIT: I'd love to see Galchenyuk, as a Skinner replacement or otherwise, added at the right price, mind you.
 
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