Speculation: Would Signing John tavares be a mistake?

Discussion in 'Detroit Red Wings' started by BinCookin, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. BinCookin

    BinCookin Registered User

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    He is a bonafide star... But if he agreed to sign in Detroit, would it be a mistake?

    Do we even have enough good players to compete with Jt on our team?
     
  2. PelagicJoe

    PelagicJoe Registered User

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    Getting JT would be a tremendous help. With him on board, we won't be as desperate for centers, and Z can move down a line.
     
  3. HisNoodliness

    HisNoodliness LGRW

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    Unfortunately I think we're still looking at a rebuild even with Tavares... And he's certainly not of the ideal age for a rebuilding team as he'll probably be less effective by the time we have a good team. However, John Tavares is a phenomenal hockey player and we should sign him if we can; we'll have to make the cap work, but he's an elite player so you take them when you can. We're not competitive next year regardless but signing him solidifies C for us for years, Tavares-Larkin is a pretty good top 2 centers.
     
  4. HIFE

    HIFE Registered User

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    I'm not sure why he would come here. That said, he's too old to dedicate 10 years at 7-10 mil. I know, he's only 27, but that's a lot of NHL miles. Now Barzal on the other hand...

    I support a more aggressive rebuild but we've got to maintain some semblance of quality. If it means dumping Helm, Ericsson, ETC. to make room it could be a positive thing to run with more ELC's and a superstar.

    With Tavares the timing is just off from where the Wings are at and my guess is he regresses quicker than people want to believe.
     
  5. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    unless we added another elite piece along with him, i dont see what this would accomplish. We'd just finish in the middle of the pack every year instead of the bottom 5-10
     
  6. Cyborg Yzerberg

    Cyborg Yzerberg Sitting on a Cloud

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    If I’m Tavares, who is my second favorite player in the league, I don’t leave the Islanders for the Red Wings.
     
  7. Run the Jewels

    Run the Jewels Registered User

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    If we didn't have so many ****ty contracts it would be a no brainier. We'd probably have to sweeten the pot to trade a couple awful contracts in order to fit Tavarez under the cap which would be counter productive. We're just starting to get good draft picks and to stockpile draft picks by trading guys who have actual value. This is a big part of the reason I hated the trade of Pav's contact to Phoenix. It cost the Wings valuable draft position. They needed to move the contract in case Stamkos agreed to meet with them. It wouldn't have been an issue if they didn't have so many awful contracts.

    So yes, in a vacuum you sign Tavares. Given our current situation you're probably going to have to do another crappy Datsyuk like deal to clear the cap space. In theory it sounds like a winner, I just think the end result is no Tavares and the "braintrust" uses the open cap space by overpaying a mediocre player and giving him a NTC as well.
     
  8. Mijatovic

    Mijatovic Registered User

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    LOL. We got an extra draft pick for moving down two spots which scored us Hronek.
     
  9. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    It depends.
    If you land Dahlin and Rasmussen is read, maybe signing Tavares is something that makes sense.

    But if we draft some kid who's 2 years away and there's no real guarantee... what does Tavares really do for you?

    Say he costs close to $12M.
    Over the last 5 years, he's 7th in 5 on 5 points.
    He's 21st in P/60
    He's 13th in primary points/60

    He's 38th in 5 on 5 points this year.
    58th in points/60
    40th in primary points.

    Here's the way his points/60 is tracking
    12-13 2.09
    13-14 2.33
    14-15 2.15
    15-16 2.23
    16-17 1.84
    17-18 2.11

    He's bounced back this year, but he's still a bit short of where he was.
    His primary points are similar.
    12-13 2.01
    13-14 1.94
    14-15 1.87
    15-16 2.08
    16-17 1.28
    17-18 1.80

    His primary points didn't rebound as well.

    If CF% matters, his 48.66 is the lowest in the last six years, by quite a ways.

    His takeaways/60 are way down this year.

    So... $12-13M?
    Man, that's a big deal.
    He's probably worth it, because he instantly shores up your top 9.
    Down the middle, you're running a great group.
    Tavares
    Larkin
    Nielsen
    Glendening

    Realistically, you've got to move Helm or Nielsen -- if that's possible.

    On capfriendly, I signed Tavares to 13Mx7y
    Franzen to LTIR

    Now we have 14M to complete the roster, assuming an $81M cap.

    Here are the RFAs to sign
    Larkin
    Bertuzzi
    Frk
    Athanasiou
    Mantha

    Let's play it short with AA and Mantha.
    AA gets 2 years x $2.6M
    Mantha gets 2x3.8M
    Frk, gets $900000
    Bert gets $900000
    You've got $6M left for Larkin.

    So here's your team
    Abdelakder Tavares Mantha
    Bertuzzi Larkin Athanasiou
    Frk Zetterberg Nyquist
    Svech Nielsen Helm
    Glendening

    Dekeyser Jensen
    Ericsson Daley
    XO Kronwall
    Wikowski

    Howard.

    Lose Green with no replacement.
    No backup goalie.
    Only 13 forwards.
    And you've only got $60,000.

    So realistically, no. You can't afford to bid for Tavares.

    IF there was some way to clear out Kronwall (with no penalty), if Z retired (with no penalty) and if we could move out Helm...
    Then you could probably go hard after Tavares and Carlson or Johnson.
    Though if I did move Kronner, Z and Helm out, and sign Tavares, I think I'd save the cap room for the trade deadline or for next year.
     
    Last edited by moderator SoupNazi: Mar 12, 2018
  10. kliq

    kliq Registered User

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    If Holland did land JT, I would guess its almost a sure thing that certain players are moved/bought out. I would guess Helm is traded with 1mil retained, Glendening possibly traded to TO, and I could see Nyquist being moved. You can still role with JT-Larkin-Z-Nielsen down the middle and look just fine. Or throw Z or Nielsen on the wing and bring up a guy like Turgeon.

    There is no doubt that Holland doesn't like to move certain guys, but if he has to I'm sure he would if it meant finally acquiring an elite talent. Or if Draper/Other is the GM, I'm sure they would have no problem moving people.
     
  11. Redder Winger

    Redder Winger Registered User

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    If Z retires, I expect the Red Wings to go hard after JT.
    And I'd put Z retiring at over 60 percent right now.
    If they can find an LTIR for him and Kronwall (is it even legal to have 3 guys like Franzen, Kronner and Z on LTIR?), then the coast is clear.
     
  12. kliq

    kliq Registered User

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    There is a limit, but I'm not sure what it is. Franzen's contract is easy to move though. Its a 4mil caphit, with 1 mil in salary. I'm sure Detroit could move it to a team like Arizona.
     
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  13. lidstromiscool

    lidstromiscool Registered User

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    Would be more entertaining thats for sure, but this team isn't going anywhere without some better defensemen
     
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  14. Pavels Dog

    Pavels Dog Registered User

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    We could only do 7 years max, no?

    I’d be open to it. I think we’ll have tons of cheap talent hitting the roster in the next 4-5 years, and RFA years beyond. With Z, Kronner, E, Howard etc etc going off the books cap space should be no problem.

    If he wants to come here, go for it.
     
  15. kliq

    kliq Registered User

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    That's why this draft lottery next month is the most important draft lottery of for us since the 80's. We land Dahlin, I really do think that is the first major domino to fall in our resurgence.

    I don't think we get him, but I will be glued to my TV when they announce it.
     
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  16. kliq

    kliq Registered User

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    I think so, unless NYI "trade him" to us just before July 1st.
     
  17. Roy S

    Roy S Registered User

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    I don't understand, why would Tavares come to Detroit?

    Detroit is dead in the water the next few years until they (hopefully) hit on these next few drafts where they've stockpiled early picks and will be picking top 5 to top 10 in the draft.
     
  18. Pavels Dog

    Pavels Dog Registered User

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    What contender can afford him?
     
  19. TheMule93

    TheMule93 On a mule rides the swindler

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    San Jose could afford him pretty easily
     
  20. InjuredChoker

    InjuredChoker Registered User

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    it's doable for the leafs and jets too.
     
  21. 21 Savage

    21 Savage Registered User

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    Would only make sense if we win a lottery pick though, otherwise don’t see the rebuild going fast enough for it to make sense
     
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  22. Number1RedWingsFan52

    Number1RedWingsFan52 Registered User

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    Doubt the Jets could afford Tavares you're talking about resigning Trouba, Laine and Wheeler that alone could be close to $23 million if not more combined for those 3 players.
     
  23. Number1RedWingsFan52

    Number1RedWingsFan52 Registered User

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    If by a miracle we draft Dahlin, I would be for going after John Tavares. But we would need to move bodies out like Helm and probably some others. And that's easier said then done.
     
  24. FMichael

    FMichael Registered User

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    Agreed.

    This is gonna be 1 of the most interesting spring/summers in years concerning the NHL.

    Tavares - a legit All-Star calibre center is certainly gonna entertain offers from rival clubs...A draft that not only boasts a wealth of talent, but it's #1 prospect is in the likes of a Lidstrom/Karlsson mold...And speaking of Karlsson - we all know he'll be on the market since Melnyk wants to summon the spirits of 'Dollar' Bill Wirtz.

    What really makes me salivate most - is the thought of winning the lottery, and making a trade for Karlsson...Nuthin against Tavares, but is there anyone elese other than me that wouldn't love the dynamic Swedes on our blueline?

    But signing Tavares would be nothing less than awesome...He'd instantly makes our craptacular wingers better.
     
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  25. WingedWheel1987

    WingedWheel1987 Registered User

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    It would be a mistake. Before offering any long term contract to anyone, the Wings should be asking themselves, "Will this player still be worth it 5-7 years from now." Cause that's when we can expect the Wings to finish their rebuild.
     
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