Worst Trade Post 2004 Lockout?

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Geography doesn't affect how healthy a player is. He had struggles recovering from a couple of fluke injuries, and if we had been patient with the recovery process, we'd likely still have him on the team now, back in peak form. We were impatient, and had a gigantic hole on the first line wing for years because of it. That alone was probably enough to cost us a couple of playoff appearances.

Geography is irrelevant. I stated he only played 12 more games the year he was traded and only 49 the following season in LA (because that's where he was, not because geography had anything to do with it). While there is no way we can say for sure, I disagree with the bolded and think that's a big stretch (saying he'd still be here). It's just as easily to assume that he wouldn't still be here. There are exactly 3 players currently on the Hurricanes that were on the 08/09 squad when Williams got traded. E. Staal, C. Ward (who were considered cornerstones of the franchise and have NTC's) and P. Dwyer (who only played 13 games that year)...that's it! As I said, Williams played only 49 games the next season and it wasn't until his final year of his contract 10/11 where he was finally healthy.

Assuming he'd have been re-signed (based on how little the Canes got from his prior contract) and still on the squad now is way too optimistic IMO. Again, no way to no for sure.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

Boucher+Alt for Pither

obviously not as impactful as the other ones but the trade was so blatantly terrible at the time and still is

 

[Ole Gil]

Would Ladd have been a Hurricane for life if they didn't trade him for Ruutu? He didn't really become the guy he is now until he went to Winnipeg well after the Canes traded him.

Same with Williams. Would the Canes have kept paying him to be injured for the next 3 years?

Anytime you project that far out, so many things happen with cap issues, contract negotiations, injuries, etc... that it gets a bit silly.

For what was predictable about those players, which was the following couple years, the deals were fine.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Would Ladd have been a Hurricane for life if they didn't trade him for Ruutu? He didn't really become the guy he is now until he went to Winnipeg well after the Canes traded him.

Same with Williams. Would the Canes have kept paying him to be injured for the next 3 years?

Anytime you project that far out, so many things happen with cap issues, contract negotiations, injuries, etc... that it gets a bit silly.

For what was predictable about those players, which was the following couple years, the deals were fine.

ladd was already showing signs of being that guy here literally the entire month before he was traded

that is definitely the worst trade in the list

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Ladd was a PPG player in his last 8 or 9 games here before we traded him to Chicago. The Ladd for Ruutu deal was awful. We traded for a player 3 years older. Although no one could predict Ruutu's absurdly fast decline from 28 on, he was always a very physical wear-and-tear guy. I just hate that we dealt a former top 5 pick that was just coming on strong so quickly. Part of why I hate the trade so much was that I abhored the deal when it happened. My gut just hurt when I read the news. I can't say I knew what would happen, but my gut just told me then that this deal would bite us down the road.

Honestly, the fact that this is the worst trade we've had in 11 years is pretty sweet. JR, for all his warts, rarely got burned in a trade, and made a lot more good moves than bad in my opinion. The prices he paid for Recchi and Weight in 2007 were totally fine with me. We just drafted poorly, like almost every year.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Re: Ladd.

Yes, he was great for the 8-9 games before the trade. But he was completely ineffective in the 4 months before that 8-9 game run, and didn't really impress in the seasons before.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

Re: Ladd.

Yes, he was great for the 8-9 games before the trade. But he was completely ineffective in the 4 months before that 8-9 game run, and didn't really impress in the seasons before.

yet he had still been more productive than ruutu that year while being almost 3 yrs younger. and cheaper. and two years further away from UFA.

also, he was 22 years old. literally a few months older than victor rask is right now. the "seasons" prior were two seasons, one of which he played 29 games. and that was back when we had actually forward depth (whitney, stillman, cole, williams, walker on the wings), which led ladd to often ride the bench. ladd's hot streak prior to the trade happened to coincide with when stillman was traded and he got a top 6 spot as a result. i don't think that was a coincidence.

it's still my opinion that the only reason the trade was made was because rutherford thought ruutu was capable of being a center and they needed one with brind'amour out for the season. laviolette thought differently, as did mo and muller. he probably played maybe 25 games at c his whole time here. if rutherford properly evaluates ruutu as a winger, i doubt the trade is made.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

to answer the question, though, the worst trade is the jack johnson trade.

rutherford inexplicably deciding to trade him towards the end of training camp killed his value. he was trading a package of a prospect who wasn't going to play that year and a very bad, overpaid defenseman and looking for players that could help now. teams weren't willing to throw in the towel on the season before it even started by trading important roster players for absolutely nothing that was going to help them that year. especially when every decent free agent had already signed, meaning there was no way of replacing what they gave up. it was just horrid timing, which resulted him getting a team's third line center and #4/5 defenseman.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I should have included another option.

- Trading Alex Semin, retaining 50% salary and a draft pick for some scrub.

 

[Ole Gil]

Ladd was a PPG player in his last 8 or 9 games here before we traded him to Chicago. The Ladd for Ruutu deal was awful. We traded for a player 3 years older. Although no one could predict Ruutu's absurdly fast decline from 28 on, he was always a very physical wear-and-tear guy. I just hate that we dealt a former top 5 pick that was just coming on strong so quickly. Part of why I hate the trade so much was that I abhored the deal when it happened. My gut just hurt when I read the news. I can't say I knew what would happen, but my gut just told me then that this deal would bite us down the road.

Ruutu was a 9th overall pick, and scored 28 his first year with Carolina, and the team went to the ECF. Ruutu with two working hips was quite good.

Although, if they kept Ladd, and ended up paying him, the Canes probably wouldn't have gotten Semin. So there are two sides.

 

[HisIceness]

Oh man seeing that chart is bringing back memories. Belanger, Anson Carter, Yelle, Zigamonis, Flood, etc. Some real duds in that list.

That Aaron Ward trade in 2009 was pretty bad regardless of who/what we gave up because of how ****ing useless the guy was in that stint. Eric Belanger was pretty useless too, I'll never forget his jersey getting stuck in the glass which was pretty much his highlight playing here.

The Ladd/Ruutu trade is an interesting one, it really didn't seem that bad at the time and up until the 2010-11 season or so is when it started looking lopsided on our end. The Corvo/Commodore is as well in the sense that early on Corvo was serviceable (anyone remember the hat trick he got against his old team like 3 weeks later?) Cole for Williams is in the same boat, I think that trade springboarded us into the playoffs that year.

In the end, I think ultimately when you add everything up, the Ruutu for Ladd trade is the "winner".

 

[Ole Gil]

They paid a million dollars for Jussi Jokinnen to score 21g and 57points for a different team!

 

[dogbazinho]

Voted JJ. It was a bad trade then and still a bad trade today. Most didnt mind the Ladd trade as i recall for quite awhile.

 

[Zezima]

Ladd/Ruutu but straight up value wise the Jokinen deal is pretty terrible too

 

[A Star is Burns]

They paid a million dollars for Jussi Jokinnen to score 21g and 57points for a different team!

As opposed to paying him $3 million I think it was to be ineffective for us? I still don't see the big deal. I mean it's not a direct correlation, but imagine that money saved being funneled to a different asset, like say Sekera, that was added that offseason. I mean, there isn't nearly as much uproar over Ruutu's money being retained for more years. Both were equally done with us as the very least. Doesn't matter much to me that one found their game afterwards.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

ward and the 7th overall pick for a 7th rounder

 

[What the Faulk]

As opposed to paying him $3 million I think it was to be ineffective for us? I still don't see the big deal. I mean it's not a direct correlation, but imagine that money saved being funneled to a different asset, like say Sekera, that was added that offseason. I mean, there isn't nearly as much uproar over Ruutu's money being retained for more years. Both were equally done with us as the very least. Doesn't matter much to me that one found their game afterwards.

Because Ruutu brought a surprisingly okay return and had struggled for longer and has been hurt.

Jokinen lasted 33 games in the year he was traded. The 3 seasons prior he had 65, 52, and 46 points in 230 games. That's 58 points per 82, which is almost exactly what he scored in his first full year in Pittsburgh.

(It's also the pace Eric Staal is on this year if he were to play all 82, which he won't).

This is one example of why it can be silly to write off a player after one bad season.

 

[DougieSmash]

Ladd for Ruutu. I hate this trade from day one. Cannot stand Tuomo Ruutu as a hurricane. I hate hate hate hate this trade.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Because Ruutu brought a surprisingly okay return and had struggled for longer and has been hurt.

Jokinen lasted 33 games in the year he was traded. The 3 seasons prior he had 65, 52, and 46 points in 230 games. That's 58 points per 82, which is almost exactly what he scored in his first full year in Pittsburgh.

(It's also the pace Eric Staal is on this year if he were to play all 82, which he won't).

This is one example of why it can be silly to write off a player after one bad season.

Sometimes a team with the Canes budget rolls the dice a little bit when a guy falls in the tank. Do I want to find out if this guy is done next year for $3 million or would I rather have a little over $2 million to get another piece in the offseason? I think the decision was just fine. I don't know that there is any more reason to think that he'd have been good with the Canes the next year with the same coach just because he was great with a much better Pens team the next year, or even good with the Panthers this year. Sometimes a guy just needs a new start. I still don't think it hurt the Canes at all. I just think the "OMG we paid him to score so much elsewhere" is overblown. It's no worse than if the Canes had bought him out, and people don't freak out over buy outs that much either after the fact.

 

[AD Skinner]

What bugged me so much about the Jokinen trade was that the team was so clearly putting him in a position to fail. Of course his numbers were awful and of course no one wanted him, and of course his numbers picked up after he left- his strengths weren't ever being utilized. They created the problem and then shot themselves in the foot to get rid of it.

FWIW I voted for the Gleason trade.

 

[What the Faulk]

In 2012-13, Jokinen's most common linemates at even-strength (in order): Drayson Bowman, Patrick Dwyer, Jordan Staal, Riley Nash, Chad LaRose. He was also on the second unit PP and PK which led him to skate 11:47 ES mins per game, 18th on the team. The five guys higher than him: Marc-Andre Bergeron, Jared Staal, Patrick Dwyer, Bobby Sanguinetti, Tuomo Ruutu.

Not everybody who struggles for half a season needs to be traded. That's how bad teams stay bad.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I honestly think there's something regarding Jokinen behind the scenes that causes him to be traded. If it were just Carolina, then I'll admit they ****ed up by trading him (though they did **** up for WHAT they traded him for.)

But Dallas let him go while he was still productive. Tampa did. The Canes did. Pittsburgh did. If he doesn't retire a Panther, I wouldn't be surprised if they do as well.

He's a mercenary player, and those guys never stick with one team very long.

 

[A Star is Burns]

In 2012-13, Jokinen's most common linemates at even-strength (in order): Drayson Bowman, Patrick Dwyer, Jordan Staal, Riley Nash, Chad LaRose. He was also on the second unit PP and PK which led him to skate 11:47 ES mins per game, 18th on the team. The five guys higher than him: Marc-Andre Bergeron, Jared Staal, Patrick Dwyer, Bobby Sanguinetti, Tuomo Ruutu.

Not everybody who struggles for half a season needs to be traded. That's how bad teams stay bad.

Agreed that not everyone that struggles should be traded, but like mentioned below, not the first time he's been given up on. Might be him. And a million or I think even slightly less for one year is no big deal. No worse than a buyout. Better actually. And it may have opened up flexibility to add a better player like we did with Sekera. Not that big of a deal even though it was a bad trade. I don't think we would've matched the next contract he got anyway.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I still say Ladd/Ruutu but it's pretty close.

The Johnson trade was flat out not good even if Gleason did reach expectations and Johnson never sniffed his. BBA's point that it was seemingly almost as much about dumping Tverdovsky's salary has merit there big time IMHO, though I'd love to know what all else was offered aside from the rumored absurd Pittsburgh price (Johnson + Ladd for #2 pick).

Giving up on Jokinen (with salary retention) for that instead of seeing if he can bounce back, and giving up that much for a guy that wasn't far off from being borderline waiver fodder already anyway in Sanguinetti were both quite brutal as well.


re: Sanguinetti trade - among those still on the board that have seen NHL time:
Wotherspoon
Kucherov
Shane Prince
Vincent Trocheck
Adam Lowry
Nick Shore
Johnny Gaudreau
JG Pageau
Ondrej Palat
Andrew Shaw

Is that true? I never heard that before. We coulda had the #2 pick in 2006? I know hindsight is 20/20, but damn, even way back then I'd have done that package for our choice of Toews or Bäckström.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Is that true? I never heard that before. We coulda had the #2 pick in 2006? I know hindsight is 20/20, but damn, even way back then I'd have done that package for our choice of Toews or Bäckström.

Except we would likely have taken Jordan.