Blue Jays Discussion: Winter Discontent II: Discontent Harder

[TheMadHatTrick]

If they took back Morales + the prospects were really nice, it's not the worst thing. Can he still play OF or he 100% DH at this point.

I like that idea except I doubt they'd take Morales. Would have to be good prospects coming back though.

Which is absolutely stupid. The Leafs management for years tried pandering to the fanbase by trying to be "just good enough" to sneak into the playoffs.

If we're rebuilding, Donaldson and Osuna are goners in my mind. Trading Donaldson is quite obvious and Osuna, I'm not convinced that his arm won't fall off at any moment based on his history. Stroman, I'd like to see what we can get in return.

Yeah, Osuna's arm is like a ticking time bomb.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I like that idea except I doubt they'd take Morales. Would have to be good prospects coming back though.

They still save 10 mill per year if it's all full contracts and they get a guy who could fill their Gonzalez hole (or maybe they can try to trade him ) and be a big bat off of the bench for pinch hitting. Maybe even a backup 1B if necessary. It could be the best they get if they decide not to release Kemp.

 

[hoc123]

Which is absolutely stupid. The Leafs management for years tried pandering to the fanbase by trying to be "just good enough" to sneak into the playoffs.

If we're rebuilding, Donaldson and Osuna are goners in my mind. Trading Donaldson is quite obvious and Osuna, I'm not convinced that his arm won't fall off at any moment based on his history. Stroman, I'd like to see what we can get in return.

Yeah just don't ever compare teams from different sports, especially considering that the Jays have a pretty strong farm system, and that the two leagues have very different playoffs.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Angelos isn’t about to trade Machado to the Yankees, and watch Machado help the Yankees win the AL East.

He won’t deal Machado to another team that has covert plans to flip Machado to the Yankees.

And he won’t deal Machado to a team if he believes they could fall out of the race by the July 31 trade deadline, trading Machado to the Yankees for the pennant stretch.

The Orioles, who for the first time since selecting Machado with the third pick in the 2010 draft, told teams they’re willing to listen to trade proposals, and by the time they departed the winter meetings Thursday, had 10 legitimate offers in hand.

The most aggressive offer, they say, was from the biggest surprise team, the Chicago White Sox. The White Sox lost 95 games last year in Year 1 of their rebuild. They may lose even more this year. They’re not supposed to contend until 2019, at the earliest.

Translation: The White Sox, according to team executives who spoke to USA TODAY Sports only on the condition of anonymity, indeed made a solid offer for Machado.

Only it didn’t involve any of their prized prospects. Not even close. The deal they offered, two executives said, were based on the belief they would have Machado for only one season.

Still, the Orioles don’t believe it. They’re not sure what to believe anymore, really. What would stop the White Sox, or any other team, from dumping Machado into the Yankees’ awaiting arms if they get off to a lousy start in April, or out of the race by May? What would stop them from trading him even in spring training if the Yankees offered a dazzling package of prospects?

Perhaps this is why the St. Louis Cardinals could be the favorites to land Machado. They badly want him. They need a third baseman.

And considering they’re chasing the Chicago Cubs in the NL Central, there’s little chance they’d trade him.

 

[stickty111]

Isnt what AA just did the same thing Zeke complained about Shapiro for?

 

[zeke]

um.....no?

 

[stickty111]

As Nem said
Liriano
Liriano

 

[zeke]

I don't see any similarity.

but the Liriano trade was a good value move too. but we should have been trying to win.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Apparently the Dodgers will release Kemp prior to him ever playing for them in 2018, which makes sense. There’s no room. They’re going to try to trade him though first in the hopes someone will pick up some of the contract, adding prospects as a sweetener.

Kemp (2/3rds retained by LAD) + Toles and Rios for Pearce

Toles is your starting LF, and Kemp replaces Pearce as your DH/OF swing man bench bat. LAD exchanges some of the contract, while getting a more marketable piece, on a one year deal, they can choose to keep or trade once more.

I get my chief priority outfield addition of the offseason. Everyone wins.

 

[Anthrax442]

I don't see any similarity.

but the Liriano trade was a good value move too. but we should have been trying to win.

I doubt there were many moves available for the assets we had to give up.

 

[Nineteen67]

In my mind, a rebuild is the only option, however,a rebuild doesn’t guarantee anything.

The Jays can’t sign the FAs they covet because a lot of guys do not want to play on that turf and in that hell hole of a stadium.

Until they build a new stadium the only option they have is to develop internally.

We’ll be watching Donaldson’s whiny ass until, at least, the trade deadline.

 

[Brown Dog]

I expect mgmt to do just enough to make it look like we're trying (like last off-season) and then start the inevitable rebuild next year when the half-a** approach fails.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[ShaneFalco]

A lot of things happening........with other teams

 

[hockeywiz542]

It was a masterful stroke of genius for the Dodgers.

And they made it work only by convincing Gonzalez to waive his no-trade clause, telling him that if he declined to waive it, he’d be buried on the bench in 2018 with limited at-bats.

It wasn’t a threat, but a promise.

Gonzalez certainly wasn’t about to spend the final year of his contract, and perhaps his career, cheering on All-Star first baseman Freddie Freeman on the bench, so he only agreed, agent John Boggs said, if the Braves agreed to designate him for assignment and make him a free agent.

Done.

“My final decision was not based on playing time,’’ Gonzalez said in a statement, “as I had agreed to a limited bench role. It is a way to test the free-agent market and see what opportunities are out there for me so I can make the best decision moving forward for me and my family. Lifting the no-trade clause is the hardest decision I have ever made in my career due to the fact that I loved every single second being a Dodger."

“I have talked through this whole process with (Dodgers president) Andrew (Friedman) and the Dodgers organization, and they are giving me this opportunity to see if there is a better fit for me somewhere else. As the roster stands right now, there might not be a spot for me on the roster.’’

Gonzalez will officially be a free agent on Wednesday where he can sign for the minimum salary, and have the Braves pay him for playing elsewhere, perhaps in his hometown of San Diego.

The Padres still badly want free agent first baseman Eric Hosmer, but if nothing else, this could give them a little leverage.

 

[Woodman19]

Apparently the Dodgers will release Kemp prior to him ever playing for them in 2018, which makes sense. There’s no room. They’re going to try to trade him though first in the hopes someone will pick up some of the contract, adding prospects as a sweetener.

Kemp (2/3rds retained by LAD) + Toles and Rios for Pearce

Toles is your starting LF, and Kemp replaces Pearce as your DH/OF swing man bench bat. LAD exchanges some of the contract, while getting a more marketable piece, on a one year deal, they can choose to keep or trade once more.

I get my chief priority outfield addition of the offseason. Everyone wins.

I love it. Would add a pair of solid bats with tons of control. Would probably have to follow it up by offloading Morales for the DH spot.

 

[Jozay]

what do you guys think it would take?

 

[SeaOfBlue]

what do you guys think it would take?

No idea. Random stab: Loup + Pentecost.

I think the Jays would be fine with giving up Loup, especially if they get a better number one LHP out of the pen and like Mayza or Dermody as a potential number 2 next year. Pentecost should also not be a huge deal with the Jays having Jansen and McGuire in the upper minors + guys like Ridge Smith, Riley Adams, Ryan Gold and hopefully Hagen Danner (if he turns things around) in the lower minors.

Giving up Loup also means the Jays only need to take on an extra 1.2 mill to bring in Villar if Loup gets 1.8 mill as expected. Now if the Jays could get rid of Morales so the DH spot is open for guys like him and Diaz to get into the game a decent amount and give guys like Donaldson a break in the field once in a while, that would be perfect. It would be good for getting Pearce, since he would be the penciled DH most likely.

 

[trellaine201]

Kemp’s Defense is abysmal from what I’ve read. No thanks.

“Kemp's good bat comes attached to one of the worst outfield defenders in baseball, making him a better fit in the AL. It's unclear if the Dodgers will be able to find a taker for him in another trade, given his limited value and large salary”

 

[trellaine201]

Mmm unless they can get rid of Morales. That might work.

 

[zeke]

Yeah, Osuna's arm is like a ticking time bomb.

why do people keep saying this? is he the only pitcher to ever have had TJ?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

why do people keep saying this? is he the only pitcher to ever have had TJ?

-Gibbons overworks him.
-There's some effort in his delivery.
-His average velocity has been declining.

 

[Eyedea]

How does Gibby overwork him?

 

[hockeywiz542]

During the winter meetings the Cardinals spoke to Baltimore about infielder Manny Machado, who has one year remaining before he hits Powerball as a free agent. The Orioles’ price is high, and the Cardinals continue to talk to Toronto about former MVP Josh Donaldson. The Blue Jays’ motivation appears low. Donaldson also would be a free agent at season’s end. The Cardinals, according to general manager Michael Girsch, cannot look at acquiring one-year players as a chance to woo them into longer commitments, and instead must see the deals for what they are: flings, with an expiration date. Ozuna’s is just twice as long.

The more characteristic move would be the Cardinals’ talks with Tampa Bay that could net Alex Colome, a closer with three years of control, and/or Evan Longoria, a third baseman with five years of control.

The Cardinals have always preferred control.

They do have two years to make the most of Ozuna’s.

“It all comes down to the acquisition costs. Do you go all-in just because you have a one-year opportunity?” Mozeliak said, and then referred to Cardinals Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr. “Mr. DeWitt is in this for the long haul. And my tenure with him has been trying to make that long haul happen. That’s how I approach it. We have a strong, strong fan support, and it’s our opportunity to keep that engaged.”

They traded away four players with 24 years of control for two years of Ozuna, and they’re at least considering moving significant, young players for six months with an All-Star third baseman. Not to mention the Cardinals openly saying they’ll look at a free-agent closer, such as Wade Davis, after years of specifically avoiding that pricey market. These aren’t jumps through a window. These are leaps.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Apparently the Dodgers will release Kemp prior to him ever playing for them in 2018, which makes sense. There’s no room. They’re going to try to trade him though first in the hopes someone will pick up some of the contract, adding prospects as a sweetener.

Kemp (2/3rds retained by LAD) + Toles and Rios for Pearce

Toles is your starting LF, and Kemp replaces Pearce as your DH/OF swing man bench bat. LAD exchanges some of the contract, while getting a more marketable piece, on a one year deal, they can choose to keep or trade once more.

I get my chief priority outfield addition of the offseason. Everyone wins.

I love this. Peace for Kemp + Toles + Rios/Ruiz/Hansen is exactly the type of trade that would help this soft reset/rebuild. We get 2 very good prospects for a player slightly more expensive than Pearce.