Player Discussion: Tyler Bertuzzi

[Hatter of the Beach]

A very impressive string of games the past week. A ton of havoc caused and better than expected vision. Reminded me a lot of Steve Downie

 

[Mister Ed]

He's been told to get a place in Detroit, he's staying (as per Helene St. James).

 

[newfy]

Really makes you wonder why Holland felt the need to extend Helm that long/for that much money with this guy waiting to fill a third line role. Bert has looked really good and provides a dimension very few on the team do

 

[cjm502]

Really makes you wonder why Holland felt the need to extend Helm that long/for that much money with this guy waiting to fill a third line role. Bert has looked really good and provides a dimension very few on the team do

Kenny just has a massive man crush on every solid NHL player the Wings organization has drafted and developed and will do anything he can to hang on to them.

 

[Flowah]

He's been told to get a place in Detroit, he's staying (as per Helene St. James).

Hopefully it goes better than when they told Sproul the same thing.

 

[Ezekial]

Hopefully it goes better than when they told Sproul the same thing.

I was going to say something about that earlier, but I couldn't remember who they told and just figured it was Jensen in the end.

 

[Winger98]

Really makes you wonder why Holland felt the need to extend Helm that long/for that much money with this guy waiting to fill a third line role. Bert has looked really good and provides a dimension very few on the team do

His goal isn't to rebuild but to shove us back into the playoffs as quickly as possible by keeping as much middle of the lineup level talent around as possible.

 

[HIFE]

His goal isn't to rebuild but to shove us back into the playoffs as quickly as possible by keeping as much middle of the lineup level talent around as possible.

What's comical is how little faith management has in prospects despite the fact they end up strengthening the cause. I remember Nyquist was only brought up because of injuries. Who could forget the Tatar fiasco... being sat opening night for Cleary and Samuelsson, etc. For all of Holland's talk about getting younger they have a really hard time believing young players can be an improvement.

 

[Claypool]

Really makes you wonder why Holland felt the need to extend Helm that long/for that much money with this guy waiting to fill a third line role. Bert has looked really good and provides a dimension very few on the team do

Bertuzzi wasn't anywhere close to being NHL ready in 2016.

 

[Henkka]

Kenny just has a massive man crush on every solid NHL player the Wings organization has drafted and developed and will do anything he can to hang on to them.

It will be a nice day when Darren Helm will net us a draft pick from a trade, without leaving this organization for free (like FIlppula or Hudler).

Asset management.

 

[Henkka]

Bertuzzi wasn't anywhere close to being NHL ready in 2016.

Yep. Guy had to complete the Dan Cleary hockey school, and now there's raising a new Cleary for us. Net-front middle6 grinder-pest. Plays exactly same game as Dany did.

Everybody will absolutely love Bertuzzi as long as he is young and cheap. But when he is signed for an Abdelkader-comparable contract, he becames a HFBorads scapegoat.

Poor kid. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Claypool]

Everybody will absolutely love Bertuzzi as long as he is young and cheap. But when he is signed for an Abdelkader-comparable contract, he becames a HFBorads scapegoat.

Poor kid. Enjoy the ride.

Pretty much. Remember, players like Bertuzzi are a dime a dozen on the open market and shouldn't be signed for more than league minimum. May as well fire up a "Why did Holland Re-sign Bertuzzi?" thread in preparation.

 

[TheMule93]

Pretty much. Remember, players like Bertuzzi are a dime a dozen on the open market and shouldn't be signed for more than league minimum. May as well fire up a "Why did Holland Re-sign Bertuzzi?" thread in preparation.

If bertuzzi plays here for the next six years and puts up more than 30 points exactly once while playing on an elite center's wing leading Holland to sign him to a 7 year contract worth 6% of our cap, people will be upset yes. In six years such a contract will likely be 5.5m+

 

[Henkka]

If bertuzzi plays here for the next six years and puts up more than 30 points exactly once while playing on an elite center's wing leading Holland to sign him to a 7 year contract worth 6% of our cap, people will be upset yes. In six years such a contract will likely be 5.5m+

Good point.

This is a nice reminder to re-analyze Abdelkader contract again. When cap is going up for 80-90 million level, this Abdelkader's 4.25M caphit is peanuts nearer the end. With 85M cap, Abdelkader's contract is same as ~2.7M value contract on 2009-10, with 56M cap. Cleary did cost exactly same (2.8M) on that time. Middle6, 7th forward pricetage. Guy who is valueable for coach when suffling the lines, can fit both on defensive or offensive lines in different matchups.

 

[Dotter]

Good point.

This is a nice reminder to re-analyze Abdelkader contract again. When cap is going up for 80-90 million level, this Abdelkader's 4.25M caphit is peanuts nearer the end. With 85M cap, Abdelkader's contract is same as ~2.7M value contract on 2009-10, with 56M cap. Cleary did cost exactly same (2.8M) on that time. Middle6, 7th forward pricetage. Guy who is valueable for coach when suffling the lines, can fit both on defensive or offensive lines in different matchups.

Good point. And it's not like Abby can't score goals. He's scored 23 goals in a season. Then followed it up with 19 goals the next season. He's on pace for 42 points this season on a rebuilding team.

So yeah, in context with the cap going up, his contract is peanuts. And was/is a fair contract when he's potting 20 goals while being our most physical player.

 

[izlez]

What's comical is how little faith management has in prospects despite the fact they end up strengthening the cause. I remember Nyquist was only brought up because of injuries. Who could forget the Tatar fiasco... being sat opening night for Cleary and Samuelsson, etc. For all of Holland's talk about getting younger they have a really hard time believing young players can be an improvement.

It's nice to pick and chose the one's that work out (and everyone still complains about)
and completely ignore the LONNNNNG list of prospects everyone cried about not getting a chance.... who turned out to be terrible

 

[Winger98]

Since November 25th Gator's been producing at a 14 point pace (3 points, 17 games).

Good point.

This is a nice reminder to re-analyze Abdelkader contract again. When cap is going up for 80-90 million level, this Abdelkader's 4.25M caphit is peanuts nearer the end. With 85M cap, Abdelkader's contract is same as ~2.7M value contract on 2009-10, with 56M cap. Cleary did cost exactly same (2.8M) on that time. Middle6, 7th forward pricetage. Guy who is valueable for coach when suffling the lines, can fit both on defensive or offensive lines in different matchups.

so in three years Gator's contract might come in line with his production if Gator is still producing like 28 year old Gator and not 33 year old Gator, and playing in positions we have to hope we have better options for.

Though you're right about Flip and Hudler, they should have been dealt rather than walking for nothing. Just like Helm should have been.

 

[Henkka]

so in three years Gator's contract might come in line with his production if Gator is still producing like 28 year old Gator and not 33 year old Gator, and playing in positions we have to hope we have better options for.

It's a numbers thing. When Abdelkader contract was signed, and the NEWS came out, we were living on a lower salary cap. It felt like big money, oh dear, an overpayment. But the contract didn't get in effect until year after. During that time, the cap went already up, and goes every year.

Same caphit for older player at range of 28-->35 aged takes account the player regression. 28-year old Abdelkader was better and that 4.25M did eat a bigger percentage from lower cap. This percentage is his role and part from the team. Then he gets older, will regress, but cap is going up and his relative percentage of cap will go smaller. Just like his role is getting smaller. Cap rise and locked caphit itself goes hand-in-hand.

I see nothing wrong in here? He could be very tradeable in the end of the contract.

 

[Winger98]

It's a numbers thing. When Abdelkader contract was signed, and the NEWS came out, we were living on a lower salary cap. It felt like big money, oh dear, an overpayment. But the contract didn't get in effect until year after. During that time, the cap went already up, and goes every year.

Same caphit for older player at range of 28-->35 aged takes account the player regression. 28-year old Abdelkader was better and that 4.25M did eat a bigger percentage from lower cap. This percentage is his role and part from the team. Then he gets older, will regress, but cap is going up and his relative percentage of cap will go smaller. Just like his role is getting smaller. Cap rise and locked caphit itself goes hand-in-hand.

I see nothing wrong in here? He could be very tradeable in the end of the contract.

except you comped him to Cleary ten years ago, a guy who was a pretty consistent 20 goal/40 point guy at the time you were referencing and trying to argue the cap hits are the same for equal players. Except they won't be comparable for another how many years? In three years, where you're arguing Gator's cap hit will finally come in-line with where we would be paying for a similar Dan Cleary, do you think Gator is going to be a 20/40 player?

He wasn't last year.
He's quickly slipping from that production target this year.

Want a comp for Gator? Try Ryan Callahan. Now who is going to offer anything of substance for Ryan Callahan?

 

[Henkka]

except you comped him to Cleary ten years ago, a guy who was a pretty consistent 20 goal/40 point guy at the time you were referencing and trying to argue the cap hits are the same for equal players. Except they won't be comparable for another how many years?

Cleary scored 0.51 points per game during that 2.8M contract. Got more near-prime Dats&Z on that time, Lidström behind and was more injured. Abdelkader has scored 0.45 points per game during last 3 seasons, with lesser teammates.

Pretty much even.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Yep. Guy had to complete the Dan Cleary hockey school, and now there's raising a new Cleary for us. Net-front middle6 grinder-pest. Plays exactly same game as Dany did.

Everybody will absolutely love Bertuzzi as long as he is young and cheap. But when he is signed for an Abdelkader-comparable contract, he becames a HFBorads scapegoat.

Poor kid. Enjoy the ride.

Wanted to congratulate you on an interesting accomplishment... i saw "Cleary" and my brain got stuck for a few minutes realizing that you used the word in a positive context. That's kind of a fun change...

 

[Winger98]

Cleary scored 0.51 points per game during that 2.8M contract. Got more near-prime Dats&Z on that time, Lidström behind and was more injured. Abdelkader has scored 0.45 points per game during last 3 seasons, with lesser teammates.

Pretty much even.

Last year it was .32
If he continues his scoring pace from the past 17 games for the rest of the season he'll be at .33 by the end of this season. If he continues his goal scoring rate for the season he's on pace for all of 13 goals.

And there is still how many years before his cap hit begins to approximate Cleary? How likely do you think it is he'll be a 20/40 guy at that point considering he wasn't last year and he's pretty darn unlikely to be one this year?

 

[Claypool]

Glad to see Bertuzzi is figuring it out at the NHL level. Fun to go back through this thread to see how many people were quick to suggest he's an AHL player after a couple games.

 

[Dotter]

Sick. This kid is proving me wrong about being a fringe 4th liner/AHL career-er. I love it when our players prove me wrong whenever I get negative!

He's so calm and collective and just seems so natural. Sure glad Ken Holland picked him when he did. I know many folks here were saying it a waste of a pick when Kenny selected Bert that early in the entry draft, but he's really proving us all wrong! Maybe Kenny knows what he is doing.

Keep it up, kid.

 

[Dotter]

I've pretty much given any up hope that he'll ever develop into something beyond serviceable in the bigs. Proven he can rock the AHL, but that isn't uncommon. Many players make AHL careers for themselves.

Hope he proves me wrong.

Rather Turgeon called up instead, honestly. This might be Berts last chance to impress.

Quoting myself to show humility on how wrong I was. Sometimes it feels good being this wrong.

Also, Turgeon seems to be pretty solid in his 1st couple of games called up. For sure been an exciting last few days watching the kids outdo my expectations.