Windsor Spitfires 2018 Offseason Thread

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hockeylegend11

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You love to remind about the negatives,but you disdain any reminders of positivity and glory.
Nobody cares that Windsor got knocked out in the 1st round this year, in fact 99 per cent understand why,a club who dumped out most of their top talent before and at the trade line,and squaring off against the 5th ranked team in the country.Trading major assets with a look towards the future,if they hadn't and won the 1st round,then losing you would have been all over them,can't have it both ways,you were in favour of a rebuild,so was I,to count and bring up playoff results this year is shallow.
 
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OHLTG

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Windsor also for those 2 years were huge in those analytic categories you just didn't know it though. I realize you're quite adversarial towards analytics and statistics you have made that abundantly clear for some unknown reason.

What you are failing to comprehend with a "coin flip" is that each team was the #1 seed in their conference they were there for a reason.

Why did the Soo get 116 points in the first place? Because they have a lot of talent, they value puck possession, offensive opportunities. Puck possession is very valuable in junior hockey because players aren't as mature, more prone to mistakes and impatience not having the puck. Hence why they can get a team chasing the game instead of staying disciplined. Hamilton was another team huge on puck possession so when you get 2 teams that value those characteristics something has to give.

I seriously can't believe you just asked how the Soo got 116 points, actually I kind of do believe it.

My comment about truculence stemmed from you giving the distinct impression that toughness/truculence had no place in hockey (the "old man style"), which I disagree with. It had nothing to do with whether I believe/like analytics or not.

I wasn't failing to realize anything. You made the comment about "coin flip", which means either team could win, but then you said people in Regina will be happy to see a team with lesser points make the trip. Either it's a coin flip and they're both worthy, or Hamilton isn't as worthy as SSM. I also wasn't asking how the Hounds got 116 points in the diminishing sense. I said if I'm in Regina, I'm asking how they got to that point. Hamilton is good enough to beat SSM, but had fewer points, so what was SSM's season like. Again, this isn't "me" asking, it's if I'm a fan that knows nothing about the teams.
 

Teflon

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Just proves what I've said all along. Analytics is just another way to make stats appear to be more than what they are in hockey!! Soo had their hands full all the way along. Playoffs are a different game. I love the leafs hired him, he's soft and refers to numbers rather than players talent that don't show in numbers. So with him in place the leafs will continue to flounder!!! Life is good!
 

Teflon

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That's fair no dog in the fight I would have preferred a Moose Jaw-Armada-Soo Memorial Cup, Moose Jaw/Swift Current isn't a large difference so that's fine. Just as I wanted Halifax to win in 2013, Guelph in 2014, London in 2005, Spokane or Kitchener in 08. I prefer seeing greatness and the best team hoisting the trophy. Other fans prefer some fairy tale (not saying you). Obviously you/Legend/Teflon are head over heels with the Hounds losing. The happiest people are the ones in Regina who get to face Hamilton with 93 points instead of the Soo who had 116 points.
So wait, r u still saying the Soo is the better team?!?! I'd have rather faced the Soo, that team wasn't built properly to win a cup!!
 

RayzorIsDull

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My comment about truculence stemmed from you giving the distinct impression that toughness/truculence had no place in hockey (the "old man style"), which I disagree with. It had nothing to do with whether I believe/like analytics or not.

I wasn't failing to realize anything. You made the comment about "coin flip", which means either team could win, but then you said people in Regina will be happy to see a team with lesser points make the trip. Either it's a coin flip and they're both worthy, or Hamilton isn't as worthy as SSM. I also wasn't asking how the Hounds got 116 points in the diminishing sense. I said if I'm in Regina, I'm asking how they got to that point. Hamilton is good enough to beat SSM, but had fewer points, so what was SSM's season like. Again, this isn't "me" asking, it's if I'm a fan that knows nothing about the teams.

It doesn't matter who I think is the better team but if you go into one game situation I would much rather face a team with 93 points rather than 116.
 

randomhero4life

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Would like to also add Hamilton was the more physical team in the series with the Soo. Kitchener was the way more physical team and took the Hounds to game seven in the conference finals, almost pulled off the win!! Skill will get you so far in the playoffs, and the Soo have plenty but when a team are being bounced around the ice game after game it's a major factor in fatigue (gassing out) which the Soo also had plenty of!! Could Bannister have worked his lines better?...that's open for discussion. The Soo gave it everything they had, played some great hockey...but the team that was built for the playoff's won.
 

windsor7

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Nov 29, 2015
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You love to remind about the negatives,but you disdain any reminders of positivity and glory.
Nobody cares that Windsor got knocked out in the 1st round this year, in fact 99 per cent understand why,a club who dumped out most of their top talent before and at the trade line,and squaring off against the 5th ranked team in the country.Trading major assets with a look towards the future,if they hadn't and won the 1st round,then losing you would have been all over them,can't have it both ways,you were in favour of a rebuild,so was I,to count and bring up playoff results this year is shallow.

This coming from a person talking from your ivory tower.
I originally posted congratulations to Hamilton.
 
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aresknights

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Id still love to see the advanced stats from the POs :)
I doubt SSM had a major adv. in any series after the 1st one.
In the OHL, things change after January. You almost gotta throw out the 1st half season #s.
Soo dominated pre trade deadline. And continued to play after it. Maybe not as dominant but darn good.
Hamilton took time to gel with their deadline acquisitions and were firing on all cylinders by rd 2 or 3 in the POs.

I would be willing to wager the advanced stats bear out the fact that OS n Kit played the SOO tough and that Hamilton was better in each of those series..
But I doubt we see those #s. I wouldn't know where to find nor do I cate enough to look to prove the point lol
I definitely could be wrong but to dismiss advanced stats cause Hamilton beat SSM is short sighted esp with SSM season #s being inflated from pre deadline games and an easier schedule than many teams had.

So did this whole "debate" over the last few pages start with someone needlessly name dropping a dig for no reason. Seems so. Some things never change. Just cant help but fan the flames I guess.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Would like to also add Hamilton was the more physical team in the series with the Soo. Kitchener was the way more physical team and took the Hounds to game seven in the conference finals, almost pulled off the win!! Skill will get you so far in the playoffs, and the Soo have plenty but when a team are being bounced around the ice game after game it's a major factor in fatigue (gassing out) which the Soo also had plenty of!! Could Bannister have worked his lines better?...that's open for discussion. The Soo gave it everything they had, played some great hockey...but the team that was built for the playoff's won.

I think this is where we get into petty narratives. So Kitchener was the more physical team but Soo still won a 7 game series? Soo played 3 more playoff games than Hamilton up to this point maybe fatigue was an issue but travel might have been a bigger issue than just fatigue. They probably could have worked their lines better they still have 4 rookie forwards dressed for most playoff games and certainly all of them once Verbeek got hurt. I don't think you can say the Soo wasn't built for the playoffs they won 14 games teams that aren't "physical, made for the playoffs" don't go out and win 14 games.
 

randomhero4life

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I think this is where we get into petty narratives. So Kitchener was the more physical team but Soo still won a 7 game series? Soo played 3 more playoff games than Hamilton up to this point maybe fatigue was an issue but travel might have been a bigger issue than just fatigue. They probably could have worked their lines better they still have 4 rookie forwards dressed for most playoff games and certainly all of them once Verbeek got hurt. I don't think you can say the Soo wasn't built for the playoffs they won 14 games teams that aren't "physical, made for the playoffs" don't go out and win 14 games.

The Soo hung in and beat Kitchener by matching the physicality,they got the job done no doubt, but 7 games of doing this along with facing a very physical Hamilton team......imho it took it's toll on the Hounds. Travel for sure had a big part as well. I should have worded it better I guess. I was impressed with a lot of the Soo players though, Sandin, Howdeshell, Raddysh, Katchouk, Frost etc. All amazing players who have great futures ahead. Hopefully Timmins is alright, he got smoked by Riley Stillman in game 5, said he was fine....but did not play game 6. So many Soo players not returning next year......good chance Bannister is gone too (AHL Just my guess) With that being said I still see the Soo as a strong contender next season. The way the Soo develops their players.......it's only a matter of time before they win a OHL Championship imho.
 

RayzorIsDull

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Id still love to see the advanced stats from the POs :)
I doubt SSM had a major adv. in any series after the 1st one.
In the OHL, things change after January. You almost gotta throw out the 1st half season #s.
Soo dominated pre trade deadline. And continued to play after it. Maybe not as dominant but darn good.
Hamilton took time to gel with their deadline acquisitions and were firing on all cylinders by rd 2 or 3 in the POs.

I would be willing to wager the advanced stats bear out the fact that OS n Kit played the SOO tough and that Hamilton was better in each of those series..
But I doubt we see those #s. I wouldn't know where to find nor do I cate enough to look to prove the point lol
I definitely could be wrong but to dismiss advanced stats cause Hamilton beat SSM is short sighted esp with SSM season #s being inflated from pre deadline games and an easier schedule than many teams had.

So did this whole "debate" over the last few pages start with someone needlessly name dropping a dig for no reason. Seems so. Some things never change. Just cant help but fan the flames I guess.

Exactly these advanced stats are about being in a high percentile say 85% compared to the rest of the league. Agreed with your above comments.

As for the debate it's real petty not from the point of view of naming another guy but more about the fact you want to criticize a team for losing in game 6 of the OHL finals when the team you cheer lead for lost in round 1. That's the issue generally speaking some fans have real low expectations or try so hard to frame something as a success. For example last year the regular season and playoffs didn't matter (tell that to the paying fans) as long as they won the Memorial Cup that was a success and we got to see that. This year Rychel made the great moves and it was a rebuilding year so the team couldn't lose. In 2016 the team had a rookie coach and rookie in Fischer that was real good and they lost round 1 but lots of great signs. In years they missed the playoffs it was a rebuilding year. There are narratives about being a real young team but every team is young since you are either 16 years old, 21 years old or any number in between. The gap between the oldest and youngest team in the league was 1 year, yes 1 whole year. People will say they will only be happy with championships which is foolish. I think a lot of fans are hungry just to see them win a division title, get home ice advantage, win a playoff round. Before we start talking about contending how about they win a playoff round again?
 
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RayzorIsDull

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The Soo hung in and beat Kitchener by matching the physicality,they got the job done no doubt, but 7 games of doing this along with facing a very physical Hamilton team......imho it took it's toll on the Hounds. Travel for sure had a big part as well. I should have worded it better I guess. I was impressed with a lot of the Soo players though, Sandin, Howdeshell, Raddysh, Katchouk, Frost etc. All amazing players who have great futures ahead. Hopefully Timmins is alright, he got smoked by Riley Stillman in game 5, said he was fine....but did not play game 6. So many Soo players not returning next year......good chance Bannister is gone too (AHL Just my guess) With that being said I still see the Soo as a strong contender next season. The way the Soo develops their players.......it's only a matter of time before they win a OHL Championship imho.

Agreed the Soo is short of picks but they probably have the best overall roster in the division and they could sell but there could be a big gap that makes it difficult to sell. If Sandin/Frost/Hayton all return that's probably 3 of the top 20 players in the league. For myself it's not about being a Soo fan it's about playing a style that lets your players have freedom, create chances etc.. I don't like London but they play a fan style that lets their forwards create and play to their strengths. We haven't seen that in Windsor in some time and seriously if they're going to play rope-a-dope let their goalie make 40+ saves and say it was another great performance by the goaltender and we had a shot that won't interest anybody.
 

OHLTG

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There are narratives about being a real young team but every team is young since you are either 16 years old, 21 years old or any number in between. The gap between the oldest and youngest team in the league was 1 year, yes 1 whole year

Do you honestly believe this? Being "young" isn't fully about your age. It's about experience, too. Windsor WAS the youngest team, officially, in the league this season - age wise. They were seriously inexperienced, too.

You look at Hamilton - five (5) guys, total, born in 2000 or 2001 on their roster. That's it! Windsor had 12.

We can talk about how "every team is young", but that's not the reality in this league. Sarnia had two (2) forwards born after 1999. Kingston had four (4) players, total. In theory, you're "young" at 21, but in the OHL, you're a seasoned vet.

This season, the playoffs were a bonus. When you rebuild, that's what happens. Wins are nice, but not as important as other areas. This coming season, expectations are higher - give me at least second round to consider it a success. Ideally, I'd like even the third round. We did that in 2009 so why not do it again?

We can shrug off the idea that this team's age and inexperience shouldn't matter, but clearly it does. It's the OHL. Experience is a big part.
 
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RayzorIsDull

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Do you honestly believe this? Being "young" isn't fully about your age. It's about experience, too. Windsor WAS the youngest team, officially, in the league this season - age wise. They were seriously inexperienced, too.

You look at Hamilton - five (5) guys, total, born in 2000 or 2001 on their roster. That's it! Windsor had 12.

We can talk about how "every team is young", but that's not the reality in this league. Sarnia had two (2) forwards born after 1999. Kingston had four (4) players, total. In theory, you're "young" at 21, but in the OHL, you're a seasoned vet.

This season, the playoffs were a bonus. When you rebuild, that's what happens. Wins are nice, but not as important as other areas. This coming season, expectations are higher - give me at least second round to consider it a success. Ideally, I'd like even the third round. We did that in 2009 so why not do it again?

We can shrug off the idea that this team's age and inexperience shouldn't matter, but clearly it does. It's the OHL. Experience is a big part.

I wasn't speaking about Windsor specifically as I said in "general." Talent and skill means more than any number, for example one of the most talented players for Hamilton was a 16 year old in Kaliev that didn't preclude him from being productive at that age.

Since it's viewed as proper can I save that post of yours and use it against you a year from this time?
 

windsor7

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Do you honestly believe this? Being "young" isn't fully about your age. It's about experience, too. Windsor WAS the youngest team, officially, in the league this season - age wise. They were seriously inexperienced, too.

You look at Hamilton - five (5) guys, total, born in 2000 or 2001 on their roster. That's it! Windsor had 12.

We can talk about how "every team is young", but that's not the reality in this league. Sarnia had two (2) forwards born after 1999. Kingston had four (4) players, total. In theory, you're "young" at 21, but in the OHL, you're a seasoned vet.

This season, the playoffs were a bonus. When you rebuild, that's what happens. Wins are nice, but not as important as other areas. This coming season, expectations are higher - give me at least second round to consider it a success. Ideally, I'd like even the third round. We did that in 2009 so why not do it again?

We can shrug off the idea that this team's age and inexperience shouldn't matter, but clearly it does. It's the OHL. Experience is a big part.

When dipietro is traded than the full rebuild will be complete.
 

OHL4Life

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The Soo hung in and beat Kitchener by matching the physicality,they got the job done no doubt, but 7 games of doing this along with facing a very physical Hamilton team......imho it took it's toll on the Hounds. Travel for sure had a big part as well. I should have worded it better I guess. I was impressed with a lot of the Soo players though, Sandin, Howdeshell, Raddysh, Katchouk, Frost etc. All amazing players who have great futures ahead. Hopefully Timmins is alright, he got smoked by Riley Stillman in game 5, said he was fine....but did not play game 6. So many Soo players not returning next year......good chance Bannister is gone too (AHL Just my guess) With that being said I still see the Soo as a strong contender next season. The way the Soo develops their players.......it's only a matter of time before they win a OHL Championship imho.

it gives you an idea just how deep and how much work is ahead. theyve started the process but tba to see just how close they can or cannot come. when you look at the depth that the soo had, guys like howdeshell were on their 3rd line. thats a pretty deep team. i think foudy may be a top 10/15 scorer in the league (i saw him at the gold cup), i still like moore better but dont doubt the pick, its going to be up to the other guys that they drafted to pick up the slack.

drafting a 17 year old player like sandin in the import draft that can be here for 2/3 years will be important. you can argue this import draft is the most important theyve had in years.
 

punch1943

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When dipietro is traded than the full rebuild will be complete.
I don’t think the rebuild will be complete with the trading of DiPietro but rather a couple years from then.
As for the 12 kids that played this past year....meh...We played 12 because that was what we were forced to do after going all in and having a bare cupboard. IMHO those 12 players were force fed into the OHL and a number were found wanting.
Those players will be waived/traded early on in my opinion.
 
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ohloutsider

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The Soo hung in and beat Kitchener by matching the physicality,they got the job done no doubt, but 7 games of doing this along with facing a very physical Hamilton team......imho it took it's toll on the Hounds. Travel for sure had a big part as well. I should have worded it better I guess. I was impressed with a lot of the Soo players though, Sandin, Howdeshell, Raddysh, Katchouk, Frost etc. All amazing players who have great futures ahead. Hopefully Timmins is alright, he got smoked by Riley Stillman in game 5, said he was fine....but did not play game 6. So many Soo players not returning next year......good chance Bannister is gone too (AHL Just my guess) With that being said I still see the Soo as a strong contender next season. The way the Soo develops their players.......it's only a matter of time before they win a OHL Championship imho.
The travel "excuse" for the Soo during the playoffs for me does not hold water. They held the home ice advantage in every series ( deserved) so all of their opposition had to come to them in the Soo - the travel would have been more of an issue for the opposition ( Sag, OS, Kit, Ham).
 

ohloutsider

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I don’t think the rebuild will be complete with the trading of DiPietro but rather a couple years from then.
As for the 12 kids that played this past year....meh...We played 12 because that was what we were forced to do after going all in and having a bare cupboard. IMHO those 12 players were force fed into the OHL and a number were found wanting.
Those players will be waived/traded early on in my opinion.
I agree - not too many sure thing spots on the Spits this year. D'amigo, Douglas, Ladd, Staios, Morgan, McDougall, Corcoran, Boka, Foudy and Purboo are likely the only ones that will get a by onto the team.

DiPietro - not sure what to think of his future - I could see him being moved or sticking all year with the team. Not too often you can have a goalie of his calibre around. I actually would like to see him for another year but I do understand there may be a need to move him for the future. Has to be a tough problem to have for Warren.
 

punch1943

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Nearly Half of First Round OHL Draft Picks have Yet To Sign...
Nine 1st round picks have not been signed yet: Cuylle (3rd to PBO) Perfetti (5th to SAG) Tolai (6th to OTT) Foudy (10th to WSR) Moore (12th to NIA) Seed (15th to OS) Piercey (16th to BAR) Morrison (18th to HAM) O'Rourke (20th to SSM)
 

randomhero4life

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Agreed the Soo is short of picks but they probably have the best overall roster in the division and they could sell but there could be a big gap that makes it difficult to sell. If Sandin/Frost/Hayton all return that's probably 3 of the top 20 players in the league. For myself it's not about being a Soo fan it's about playing a style that lets your players have freedom, create chances etc.. I don't like London but they play a fan style that lets their forwards create and play to their strengths. We haven't seen that in Windsor in some time and seriously if they're going to play rope-a-dope let their goalie make 40+ saves and say it was another great performance by the goaltender and we had a shot that won't interest anybody.

Like I was saying before, hopefully some changes / tweaks to offensive systems are made. It would be nice to see forwards on the Spit's be given the oppourtunity to show some creativity, offensive flare ....so to speak. There are more than one way to gain entry in the neutral zone, dump and chase/cycle cannot always be the "go to" relying on smaller inexperienced players to win puck battles on the boards etc. needs to be addressed. Spit's gotta be more physical, drive the net more. In reality when you do have such a talented goalie like Michael DiPietro that should be a true incentive to be more creative and take more chances. We have seen that the Spit's do have the speed and tenacity fore checking, It all comes down to consistancy. Looking forward to training camp, like Outsider was saying certain players will be battling for spot's & upcoming season, excited to see how it all plays out.
 

randomhero4life

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Nearly Half of First Round OHL Draft Picks have Yet To Sign...
Nine 1st round picks have not been signed yet: Cuylle (3rd to PBO) Perfetti (5th to SAG) Tolai (6th to OTT) Foudy (10th to WSR) Moore (12th to NIA) Seed (15th to OS) Piercey (16th to BAR) Morrison (18th to HAM) O'Rourke (20th to SSM)

In do process, you will see signings soon (June)
 
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