GDT: Win and We're f***ING IN!: Maple Leafs @ Devils, 7 PM, MSG+

[Bleedred]

What is anybody even thinking about the offseason? Old habits die hard

It’s a habit and routine after the last 5 years.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Can we trust a stat that suggests Lovejoy is the second best defender on the team?

It doesn't suggest Lovejoy is the second best defenseman on the team, what it suggests is Lovejoy coughs the puck up less than most of our defense. I suspect that's true.

I dont really understand how the, "Lovejoy is terrible" meme went viral on this board, but I've never understood it or believed it versus the eye test of a #6 NHL defender.

I guess if you expect a #6/#7 guy to perform like a #2 or #3, you'd be disappointed, but why anyone would expect that in the first place is beyond me.

 

[MadDevil]

It doesn't suggest Lovejoy is the second best defenseman on the team, what it suggests is Lovejoy coughs the puck up less than most of our defense. I suspect that's true.

Do they count failed clearing attempts off the boards/glass as turnovers?

 

[JimEIV]

It doesn't suggest Lovejoy is the second best defenseman on the team, what it suggests is Lovejoy coughs the puck up less than most of our defense. I suspect that's true.

I dont really understand how the, "Lovejoy is terrible" meme went viral on this board, but I've never understood it or believed it versus the eye test of a #6 NHL defender.

I guess if you expect a #6/#7 guy to perform like a #2 or #3, you'd be disappointed, but why anyone would expect that in the first place is beyond me.

Problem was when he first got here he was pretty much used as a top pairing guy, he averaged over 20 minutes last season and some games he played big minutes with Grene...but I tend to agree the Lovejoy stuff is often over the top. His skating is ugly, he's a bit slow but he's not terrible. As a bottom pairing Dman I think he's quite good...

But him blocking Santini probably annoys some people too.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Problem was when he first got here he was pretty much used as a top pairing guy, he averaged over 20 minutes last season and some games he played big minutes with Grene...but I tend to agree the Lovejoy stuff is often over the top. His skating is ugly, he's a bit slow but he's not terrible. As a bottom pairing Dman I think he's quite good...

But him blocking Santini probably annoys some people too.

I suspect that all of the above is true.

The same could be said of Greene in that he'd be a "better" defenseman on many other teams, because many other teams wouldn't be using him as a #1/#2. Greene has spent much of his career with too much being asked of him.

 

[JimEIV]

I suspect that all of the above is true.

The same could be said of Greene in that he'd be a "better" defenseman on many other teams, because many other teams wouldn't be using him as a #1/#2. Greene has spent much of his career with too much being asked of him.

I feel real bad for Greene... he's spent the last 6 or 7 years carrying the Defense on mostly bad teams, now the team is finally starting to get good and he's showing signs of wear.

I really hate seeing the criticism of him after all he has done, even when it's true.

 

[MadDevil]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the defense this summer. Even if we let Moore walk, if we're planning on upgrading the left side, somebody is gonna have to be moved or be the odd man out to do it. Assuming we go Vatanen, Severson, Santini down the right side, we've already got Greene, Mueller, and Butcher signed on the left side. But that's probably a discussion for another day. Hopefully we'll have a nice playoff run to argue about for the next couple months instead.

 

[severian]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the defense this summer. Even if we let Moore walk, if we're planning on upgrading the left side, somebody is gonna have to be moved or be the odd man out to do it. Assuming we go Vatanen, Severson, Santini down the right side, we've already got Greene, Mueller, and Butcher signed on the left side. But that's probably a discussion for another day. Hopefully we'll have a nice playoff run to argue about for the next couple months instead.

Greene - Vatanen
Mueller - Carlson
Butcher - Santini

Maybe Chiarelli will trade us Draisatl for Severson.

 

[glenwo2]

 

[NjDevsRR]

iSplooged

 

[Bleedred]

I feel real bad for Greene... he's spent the last 6 or 7 years carrying the Defense on mostly bad teams, now the team is finally starting to get good and he's showing signs of wear.

I really hate seeing the criticism of him after all he has done, even when it's true.

I think if Greene were used as a 16-17 minute defenseman, he might still be decent. I think even in a 20 minute role where Hynes and the staff weren't so insistent in necessarily matching him up against the other team's top players, he might also look a little better.

 

[Zippy316]

It's going to be interesting to see what happens with the defense this summer. Even if we let Moore walk, if we're planning on upgrading the left side, somebody is gonna have to be moved or be the odd man out to do it. Assuming we go Vatanen, Severson, Santini down the right side, we've already got Greene, Mueller, and Butcher signed on the left side. But that's probably a discussion for another day. Hopefully we'll have a nice playoff run to argue about for the next couple months instead.

Severson is going to be the most interesting piece there. He's the guy that has both the most value and also is a bit expendable.

If you look to upgrade the right side with Carlson, he almost has to go to make room for him. If you try to get into a bidding war for Karlsson (or maybe even Doughty), he will be the main piece going the other way:

Greene - 1RD
Mueller - Vatanen
Butcher - Santini
Lovejoy

That has the makings of a solid defensive group if Mueller and Butcher can continue improving. I wouldn't bank on it, but the ultimate hope would be Mueller takes the next step and supplants Greene playing the complimentary role on the first pair.

 

[Zippy316]

I think if Greene were used as a 16-17 minute defenseman, he might still be decent. I think even in a 20 minute role where Hynes and the staff weren't so insistent in necessarily matching him up against the other team's top players, he might also look a little better.

Greene is getting Girardi-ed. Girardi has actually settled into a nice role with the Lightning where he's not playing top players every single night.

They're constantly pushed into that same role they played five years ago because the alternative is even worse. It's really, really hard to transition guys out of that role on a team unless you have a bonafide top defender pushing them out of their spot.

It's not an easy role to play and it take some adjustment. A lot of times, teams (and coaches) can't afford to let guys adjust and they throw the tried and true method back out there.

 

[glenwo2]

The daily HF Boards Devils argument, despite success.

Now with the playoffs looming, it's going to be :

 

[Bleedred]

Greene is getting Girardi-ed. Girardi has actually settled into a nice role with the Lightning where he's not playing top players every single night.

They're constantly pushed into that same role they played five years ago because the alternative is even worse. It's really, really hard to transition guys out of that role on a team unless you have a bonafide top defender pushing them out of their spot.

It's not an easy role to play and it take some adjustment. A lot of times, teams (and coaches) can't afford to let guys adjust and they throw the tried and true method back out there.

Girardi is still a terrible defenseman in Tampa.

He's just a little more sheltered there than he was for the Rangers.

Girardi has always been a trash defenseman, I've been saying it for almost a decade now.

He blocks all those shots because he's a shitty player that can't get out of his own end if he had to escape a disaster scene.

 

[Billdo]

I put LD1 much higher on the list than another RD. Like a lot higher.

 

[Sir Fenwick Corsi]

24+ hours later and I’m still high off of yesterday. What’s really satisfying for me is that after supporting this team for 25 years, I finally feel like I earned it. I jumped on just as the Devils juggernaut took off in 93. Sure, there were really tough times mixed in there. Game 7 94, game 82 96. The first round struggles in the late 90’s, 01 Cup final, game 7 09. All that being said, the highs were enormous and there were many, to the point of being spoiled. Something was missing though and that was the experience of being a part of the really tough times. The lean years when there is no light at the end of the tunnel. It was something I always admired about the fans who were there from the start. We have a few of them with us on the board. It must have been something else to be a part of that build from the very bottom. Now having experienced it myself these last 6 years, it’s just amazing and rewarding to finally see the payoff. I never took the playoffs for granted during the glory years but I can tell you that I appreciate this playoff birth more than any other. A lot of you who stuck through it all these years can probably relate to this as well so it’s pretty cool having gone through it together. Sorry for the long post but I appreciate you guys no matter how much arguing and disagreement that goes on here. Just really happy for all of us.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Severson is going to be the most interesting piece there. He's the guy that has both the most value and also is a bit expendable.

I truly believe many Devils fans overvalue the "value" of Severson.

I honestly think his young age is his greatest asset, because the reality is there is a solid chance he could get "better" from here (and should get better), yet that's the crux of the matter. If you could tell me that SOMEONE could "beat" Severson into a desire to actually play defense, and not wander into the offensive zone like he has one day to live and is playing Keno, I'd be ALL FOR keeping him.

The reality is, Severson really isnt very good offensively, and I've seen nothing to suggest to me that XYZ NHL coach or Hall of Fame veteran can convince him that he's not better than Wayne Gretzky in his mid-1980s prime.

THAT IS A (huge) PROBLEM.

 

[My3Sons]

Problem was when he first got here he was pretty much used as a top pairing guy, he averaged over 20 minutes last season and some games he played big minutes with Grene...but I tend to agree the Lovejoy stuff is often over the top. His skating is ugly, he's a bit slow but he's not terrible. As a bottom pairing Dman I think he's quite good...

But him blocking Santini probably annoys some people too.

He’s held his own as a sixth defender with a guy who offers some upside in Butcher. It isn’t so much Lovejoy as what he symbolized. To me he suggested bad coaching and bad thought process by Shero. My premise is that if you are going to stink at least stink while developing the young players. Lovejoy was overused by Hynes last season and he never should have been signed by an architect looking to build a fast attacking team. I’m sure Lovejoy is a good guy and trying his best and he’s not in Hynes’ office demanding to be played over anyone. Still he’s a dead end player who stands out like a sore thumb as an old school player on a new School team. I don’t feel too bad for him as he’s laughing all the way to the bank. Frankly it won’t surprise me if he gets a one year deal from some team after his current deal expires. Hopefully not from NJ.

 

[haak84]

lovejoy has been more than fine recently. fast and attacking is great until you're pinned in your own zone. LJ actually can move bodies in front. One of his only strengths.

he's Colin White but without the oddly impressive breakout from time to time and also someone you wouldn't mind dating your daughter. pretty much the only differences.