Willingness to trade ROR

[Jame]

Pre Dahlin, I had some interest in 1 for 1 trades around a top pair defensmen...

Post Dahlin, I have close to zero interest in trading ROR

 

[Panthaz89]

Pre Dahlin, I had some interest in 1 for 1 trades around a top pair defensmen...

Post Dahlin, I have close to zero interest in trading ROR

I mean 3 legit top pair defenseman would be pretty great to have and we have enough centers to replace some of his production.

 

[Jame]

I mean 3 legit top pair defenseman would be pretty great to have and we have enough centers to replace some of his production.

Nope

 

[old kummelweck]

I don't think there is a rush to trade him.

 

[explore]

No

 

[Buff15Sabres]

Pre Dahlin, I had some interest in 1 for 1 trades around a top pair defensmen...

Post Dahlin, I have close to zero interest in trading ROR

Pretty much this. If we somehow manage to sign Tavares I'd be willing to trade RoR, but outside of that happening I don't see much reason.

 

[Not Sure]

I'd try weed him for a massive overpayment just like any other player in the league, but that wont happen. So if he gets moved I'd want a package that helps now with at least 1 higher end piece. That player doesn't need to have the same value as ROR but he needs to fill a position of need with the + being players that fill in our gaps with depth.

Honestly if he gets moved I wouldn't mind an established goalie as the center piece with depth and prospect wingers/defenseman. I really want Holtby or Rask if they're available, but we definitely need an NHL level goaltender before the start of the season. If Lehner is on the roster as anything but a cheapish backup it will appear that Botterill isnt trying to win.

 

[sabresandcanucks]

No interest unless it is a massive over payment by some team.

 

[OkimLom]

I mean 3 legit top pair defenseman would be pretty great to have and we have enough centers to replace some of his production.

We do not.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Pretty much this. If we somehow manage to sign Tavares I'd be willing to trade RoR, but outside of that happening I don't see much reason.

Im not singling you out since ive seen numerous people post the same reasoning - but for me it's flat out wrong.

This is probably more suited to a JT thread but:

- if he hits the open market id bet that JTs AAV is around 50% more than ROR - he would also be signed for 2/3 years longer than ROR is so from a cap perspective they arent comparable
-they are different players - as good as he is I don't see JT playing a shut down orientated role as I see ROR having with Eichel & Mittelstadt as offensively biased players - so they are not comparable on the ice either.

Honestly if the Sabres wanted to pursue JT then Eichel is the only guy who you could trade to 'make room' for him.

 

[MagnumForce2]

Whether you are for or opposed to moving him. I tend to think the writing is on the wall and it is just a matter of time until he is traded.

 

[Zman5778]

I mean 3 legit top pair defenseman would be pretty great to have and we have enough centers to replace some of his production.

We really don't. If you're talking pure points.....MAYBE we could get 75% of his points back next year. But everything else he brings? Nothing on this roster comes close. Nothing readily available comes close.

 

[Man of Principles]

I didn't want him to be traded at first but I'm warming up to the idea. It's a situation where I've been a big fan of his for the entirety of his career, but also acknowledge that he hasn't worked out in Buffalo for the most part. The comments he made on locker cleanout day are things you should never hear come out of a professional's mouth. If you're paid millions of dollars to do something that only a minute fraction of humans ever get the chance to do, you should show up to the rink every day with some pride. I lost a lot of respect for him.

Luckily, he's valued around the league, because to me he said everything BUT specifically wanting out of Buffalo. If he's giving up on the organization then he's gotta go. Simple as that.

 

[1TuchAnd1NoTuch]

If we can sign a guy like Riley Nash my stance would change, but as of right now we can’t afford to move him

 

[Dingo44]

I'm getting flashbacks to Myers with this ROR trade talk. I kept hearing they were maybe moving Myers and I was afraid of that happening. I figured if we did make that decision it would be a huge haul. I was definitely underwhelmed by the return. I'm hoping this isn't the same scenario. I wanted to keep Myers and I want to keep ROR.

 

[Dreakon13]

I'm getting flashbacks to Myers with this ROR trade talk. I kept hearing they were maybe moving Myers and I was afraid of that happening. I figured if we did make that decision it would be a huge haul. I was definitely underwhelmed by the return. I'm hoping this isn't the same scenario. I wanted to keep Myers and I want to keep ROR.

As much as people senselessly beat up Botteril around here, we have one thing going for us in any "blockbuster" trades this offseason... Botts isn't Tim Murray. I have faith that he won't be so enamored by any one player that he'll give up the farm for them, and he really hasn't gotten burned in a trade yet. His biggest trade (for Scandella) was a yuge win. Trades for, say, Beaulieu don't look good today but were kept appropriately low risk.

And before anyone says "b- b- but Kane at the trade deadline"... he was never going to get more than a lowball offer, given his baggage, the massive cold streak in the months leading up to it, and the fact that everyone knew he was ready to walk this offseason for nothing. San Jose took a chance on him, and paid accordingly. And it seems to have worked out for them, which may still work out for us. This myth that our savvy HF insiders concocted that Botts definitely had GM's lining up with the king's ransom for Kane in December and he blew it by waiting for the deadline itself is pure, unadulterated nonsense.

EDIT: Long story short... Botts isn't Tim Murray, and a ROR trade is under completely different circumstances than the Kane trade or any examples we might have of Botts not getting value in a trade. He may still disappoint if a trade does happen, but there's no reason to assume/fear that he will.

 

[DJN21]

I didn't want him to be traded at first but I'm warming up to the idea. It's a situation where I've been a big fan of his for the entirety of his career, but also acknowledge that he hasn't worked out in Buffalo for the most part. The comments he made on locker cleanout day are things you should never hear come out of a professional's mouth. If you're paid millions of dollars to do something that only a minute fraction of humans ever get the chance to do, you should show up to the rink every day with some pride. I lost a lot of respect for him.

Luckily, he's valued around the league, because to me he said everything BUT specifically wanting out of Buffalo. If he's giving up on the organization then he's gotta go. Simple as that.

People need to get past this mentality. It's a double edged sword. If ryan came out and said I'm getting paid millions to do a job, I'm not in love with the game but so and so needs to be better on this team it'd have the same impact as him being a man and saying he loves the game and simply wants to win. Instead of blaming others like a child he holds himself accountable.

The man wants to win and if the organization doesn't hold up their end by subsequently surrounding him with pouliots, nolans, and Beaulieu than he has every right to be dismayed.

If you manage a decent paycheck but want a job that's rewarding for your spiritual and mental health. If you work long hours and your significant other suffers would you think it fair for a stranger to say stop whining and work harder! You make good money! If you came out and said I can do more to better myself and I accept that responsibility would you like others to chastise you?

Lost respect for him? Gtfo. He's a good guy, he works hard, wants to win, and never calls out anyone but himself.

Has he underwhelmed as a hockey player in terms of turning the team around maybe? Idk I blame the supporting cast but sure whatever narrative fits.

Now if you're talking trading him for a good hockey fit for this club terms at is another story....

 

[Deleted member 27798]

Pre Dahlin, I had some interest in 1 for 1 trades around a top pair defensmen...

Post Dahlin, I have close to zero interest in trading ROR

Even if Botts has determined that ROR is a big part of an off-ice/locker room problem?

 

[Jame]

Even if Botts has determined that ROR is a big part of an off-ice/locker room problem?

I'm terrified of Botts making that determination when HE is in fact the biggest part of the lockerroom problems....

 

[Deleted member 27798]

I'm terrified of Botts making that determination when HE is in fact the biggest part of the lockerroom problems....

Confusing your opinion with facts?

 

[Jame]

Confusing your opinion with facts?

The "lockeroom problems" topic is inherently opinion based.

 

[hizzoner]

Again-I am not ready to trade ROR except for a trade that will make us a better team--like everyone else! I did not and do not buy the bs that locker room clean out statements in this case mean anything. Sure he was down on himself and the team. But he did go to the WCs----he was not getting his salary for this for Pete's sakes! Giving up his time? This shows to me he loves the game--just disenchanted with losing and made the mistake of saying so? Still if a deal is available to add a piece or pieces that make us a better team-go for it. A mid round first pick, a prospect almost nhl ready and an nhl player who has jam and speed would be tempting.....

 

[OkimLom]

As much as people senselessly beat up Botteril around here, we have one thing going for us in any "blockbuster" trades this offseason... Botts isn't Tim Murray. I have faith that he won't be so enamored by any one player that he'll give up the farm for them, and he really hasn't gotten burned in a trade yet. His biggest trade (for Scandella) was a yuge win. Trades for, say, Beaulieu don't look good today but were kept appropriately low risk.

And before anyone says "b- b- but Kane at the trade deadline"... he was never going to get more than a lowball offer, given his baggage, the massive cold streak in the months leading up to it, and the fact that everyone knew he was ready to walk this offseason for nothing. San Jose took a chance on him, and paid accordingly. And it seems to have worked out for them, which may still work out for us. This myth that our savvy HF insiders concocted that Botts definitely had GM's lining up with the king's ransom for Kane in December and he blew it by waiting for the deadline itself is pure, unadulterated nonsense.

EDIT: Long story short... Botts isn't Tim Murray, and a ROR trade is under completely different circumstances than the Kane trade or any examples we might have of Botts not getting value in a trade. He may still disappoint if a trade does happen, but there's no reason to assume/fear that he will.

Of course there's reasons to assume/fear he might. He is 100% responsible for the decline of production and 100% for the slide in the standings of the team. He's responsible as a seller to continue to build and improve this team. He made 1 move at the trade deadline. From Oct 5 to the Deadline he made 2 moves of getting Non Sabres property onto the roster. Getting Wilson and trading Kane.

Our team was at the bottom of the league for pretty much the full year. I just don't understand why so little was done to help the team, when is was very apparent our core guys were not playing well, and we didn't have the support players capable of supporting those struggling core players. THAT is why I have a little hesitation with Botts and the rumors of moving ROR. His decision making and his ability to value roles and the talent of the players in relation to his roster composition. I'm not saying I'm certain he will screw it up, but the moves he HAS made, and his process of evaluating his team midseason gives me pause of what he will do with an important player and role on this team.

Just because I was curious:

Oct 4th-Oct 31st: 29th place
Oct 4th - Nov 30th: 31st place
Oct 4th - Dec 31st: 30th place
Oct 4th - Jan 31st: 30th place
Oct 4th - Feb 26th: 30th place
Oct 4th - March 31st: 31st place
Oct 4th - End of the season: 31st Place

Oct 4th-Oct 31st: 29th place
Nov 1st - Nov 30th: 30th place
Dec 1st - Dec 31st: 23rd place
Jan 1st - Jan 31st: 27th place
Feb 1st - Feb 26th: 20th place
Feb 27th - End of the season: 29th place

 

[Dreakon13]

Of course there's reasons to assume/fear he might. He is 100% responsible for the decline of production and 100% for the slide in the standings of the team. He's responsible as a seller to continue to build and improve this team. He made 1 move at the trade deadline. From Oct 5 to the Deadline he made 2 moves of getting Non Sabres property onto the roster. Getting Wilson and trading Kane.

Our team was at the bottom of the league for pretty much the full year. I just don't understand why so little was done to help the team, when is was very apparent our core guys were not playing well, and we didn't have the support players capable of supporting those struggling core players. THAT is why I have a little hesitation with Botts and the rumors of moving ROR. His decision making and his ability to value roles and the talent of the players in relation to his roster composition. I'm not saying I'm certain he will screw it up, but the moves he HAS made, and his process of evaluating his team midseason gives me pause of what he will do with an important player and role on this team.

Just because I was curious:

Oct 4th-Oct 31st: 29th place
Oct 4th - Nov 30th: 31st place
Oct 4th - Dec 31st: 30th place
Oct 4th - Jan 31st: 30th place
Oct 4th - Feb 26th: 30th place
Oct 4th - March 31st: 31st place
Oct 4th - End of the season: 31st Place

Oct 4th-Oct 31st: 29th place
Nov 1st - Nov 30th: 30th place
Dec 1st - Dec 31st: 23rd place
Jan 1st - Jan 31st: 27th place
Feb 1st - Feb 26th: 20th place
Feb 27th - End of the season: 29th place

It reflects poorly on him as a GM and his ability to turn around a bottom feeder in under a year, sure. A bottom feeder that was apparently completely riding on their decent goaltending and #1 PP in their heroic run to 80pts the year prior (both of which we lost this year despite having largely the same personnel in both areas... good going Botts! Amirite?)

I'm not seeing anything that'd make me nervous about him getting value for ROR. Trade-wise, he's done alright in the last year. Maybe not as much movement as people would've liked to see and certain moves didn't pan out, but the things he did were always somewhere between safe and spectacular. No wild swings and misses like Murray.

Not getting as much for Kane as we were all hoping is really the only thing that hurts and there's a laundry list of potential reasons for why that happened that aren't necessarily just Botts being a "dumb dumb".

 

[brian_griffin]

Pretty much this. If we somehow manage to sign Tavares I'd be willing to trade RoR, but outside of that happening I don't see much reason.

As Rowley Birkin notes below, If you sign JT and trade ROR, you'd be paying substantially higher marginal salary for proportionally smaller marginal performance.

Im not singling you out since ive seen numerous people post the same reasoning - but for me it's flat out wrong.

This is probably more suited to a JT thread but:

- if he hits the open market id bet that JTs AAV is around 50% more than ROR - he would also be signed for 2/3 years longer than ROR is so from a cap perspective they arent comparable
-they are different players - as good as he is I don't see JT playing a shut down orientated role as I see ROR having with Eichel & Mittelstadt as offensively biased players - so they are not comparable on the ice either.

Honestly if the Sabres wanted to pursue JT then Eichel is the only guy who you could trade to 'make room' for him.

Whether you are for or opposed to moving him. I tend to think the writing is on the wall and it is just a matter of time until he is traded.

I think ROR's the kind of player you need on a cup-winning team, and have needed on such teams going back decades.

The "lockeroom problems" topic is inherently opinion based.

I'm sure we'll figure out how to quantify it to make it more objective.

• xFBF% (expected fist bumps for, sorted by TOI with/without linemates)
• team ranking in "I have to be better" remarks
• "Little Big Horn" factor - how long do you stay in post-game interviews until the bitter end (replaced with Alamo factor for games played in Texas).

Heck, skip the Kraft Hockeyville game. Put an outdoor rink on the Crimean penninsula and play the first-ever "charge of the light brigade" game.