Speculation: Will Treliving Show Bennett the Money?

DFF

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For the record I'm with you on the bridge deal business. I just think it's bizarre to say Bennett's shots are low quality and get blocked too often based on anecdotal evidence when OKG provided a pretty clear case for Bennett having a great shot in the exact post you quoted.

.

OKG always has some good selective stats.
That said, it's doesnt take much to notice that Bennett lacks hockey sense to make the right play most of the time.He plays a tough game but lacks strength, he has raw skills but doesnt make good plays. Hopefully he develops this year. To me this is the crucial year for Bennett. It's a toss up if he is going to be the expected star or just another scrub.
 

Tkachuk Norris

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OKG always has some good selective stats.
That said, it's doesnt take much to notice that Bennett lacks hockey sense to make the right play most of the time.He plays a tough game but lacks strength, he has raw skills but doesnt make good plays. Hopefully he develops this year. To me this is the crucial year for Bennett. It's a toss up if he is going to be the expected star or just another scrub.

No it doesn't take much to realize Bennett had no confidence last year. No confidence = bad hockey player. You don't need stats to tell you that though, that we can agree on.
 

Johnny Hoxville

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I've talked about this before, but the hockey sense excuse gets misused. If Bennett comes out this year and plays more simple, doesn't hold onto the puck as long, doesn't force things as much, and has better luck at finishing his chances, is it because he took a magic pill over the summer and suddenly got smarter?

I think confidence is a big thing, I think Bennett had a rough year last season. He puts a ton of pressure on himself and I don't think that helped his cause. I also think he's a very smart player and he generally sees things most players don't.
 

Bjornar Moxnes

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I've talked about this before, but the hockey sense excuse gets misused. If Bennett comes out this year and plays more simple, doesn't hold onto the puck as long, doesn't force things as much, and has better luck at finishing his chances, is it because he took a magic pill over the summer and suddenly got smarter?

I think confidence is a big thing, I think Bennett had a rough year last season. He puts a ton of pressure on himself and I don't think that helped his cause. I also think he's a very smart player and he generally sees things most players don't.

Well I've come up with the theory hockey IQ and wisdom. IQ is obvious, wisdom is having the IQ and the mentality and psychology to use the IQ even during tough situations, it's no shame Bennett like many other players are not hockey wise yet, they can't be like Gretzky or Aho, a few hockey wise players at a very young age.
 

Rubi

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I get the confidence thing but I almost wish he would play the wing this year because if history shows us anything it's that he's more effective there. However I know that's not going to happen because the Flames see him as Backlund's replacement when Backs has moved on to another team (I dont think the Flames will be able to afford to pay him what he'll get elsewhere at the end of this season).
Here's to hoping that everything clicks into place this year for Sam.
 

OvermanKingGainer

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OKG always has some good selective stats.
That said, it's doesnt take much to notice that Bennett lacks hockey sense to make the right play most of the time.

Actually, it takes a whole lot. Of selective memory. Of confirmation bias. Of tuning out all the high IQ plays he makes.
 
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OvermanKingGainer

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I get the confidence thing but I almost wish he would play the wing this year because if history shows us anything it's that he's more effective there. .

No, history shows us that he is more effective with top 6 caliber linemates. Don't get the positional play confused with the offensive success.
 

Rubi

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No, history shows us that he is more effective with top 6 caliber linemates. Don't get the positional play confused with the offensive success.
No, he's better when he's banging and crashing and playing a bit like an a-hole. Its tougher to do that as a center, what with the defensive responsibility that the position entails. Last year Bennett played a bit like a wuss most games and I'd like to see him get his "mean" back. He's more likely to do that on the wing.... no matter who his linemates are.

However I know this is all just wishful dreaming on my part because the Flames have committed to having him play center and I certainly don't see them changing that in the near future.
 

Mr Snrub

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I get the confidence thing but I almost wish he would play the wing this year because if history shows us anything it's that he's more effective there. However I know that's not going to happen because the Flames see him as Backlund's replacement when Backs has moved on to another team (I dont think the Flames will be able to afford to pay him what he'll get elsewhere at the end of this season).
Here's to hoping that everything clicks into place this year for Sam.

No, history shows us that he is more effective with top 6 caliber linemates. Don't get the positional play confused with the offensive success.

You're both right. If we want Bennett to be an offensive force the only way that's going to happen is by putting him on Backlund's wing again so he can get some quality linemates. OKG is correct in that he looked better at LW because he was playing with Backlund, but Rubicon is also correct in that he should play wing.

Plus you're telling me you don't want to see Bennett - Backlund - Tkachuk as our top matchup line? Both Bennett and Tkachuk have the ability to become elite at drawing penalties if they get smarter about where the refs are going to draw the line...
 

OvermanKingGainer

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You're both right. If we want Bennett to be an offensive force the only way that's going to happen is by putting him on Backlund's wing again so he can get some quality linemates.

Not really. It's a three line league. And Bennett will continue to get better and more dominant as he approaches his actual prime as a centerman.

Look at the leafs. Bozak was the Leafs' 3C with Marner and JVR at put up 55 points. Kadri was playing 2C but had arguably worse linemates (Connor Brown, Leo Komarov, and Alex Nylander) however he is in his prime and a good example of what Bennett projects as (except not as good).

Keeping Bennett at C and moving him up the lineup when there is an injury and seeing if he sticks full time is absolutely a way Bennett's going to be an offensive force.

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-X
X-Backlund-Monahan

In this scenario you have three killer lines and Bennett is not playing wing nor is anyone losing out on linemate quality.

OKG is correct in that he looked better at LW because he was playing with Backlund, but Rubicon is also correct in that he should play wing.

Well, luckily Gully and Tre disagree:

Gulutzan said:
“Do I think young players that are centremen like Sam, are they more effective at wing early on in the NHL? Yeah, I do, if you can get a good veteran presence with them,†said Flames head coach Glen Gulutzan. “But if you put them in the right spot, they can develop their skill-set at centre, too. So it’s a little bit of a balancing act with a young player.

“Right now, he’s finding his way. If we have to put him on the wing at some time, we would, but we’re trying to develop him. He’s going to be a good two-way centre. He is already. He’s been able to hold his own both ways, so I’d rather be able to move a centre to wing at some point than try to make him a winger and then move him back to the centre position.â€

“But if you slot him in the right place, you can develop in the right areas so that eventually — and I believe this — he’ll be able to play against top guys night in and night out. But there are not too many 20-year-olds yet that can.â€


Treliving said:
You have to invest in it. It’s not going to happen just because you hope it happens. There has to be a period of investment. There has to be a period of patience.

“We want to them to be 26 years old and perfect right away. That’s not how it works.â€

When you look at Sam, what are his attributes that make you believe he’s going to be a good centre?†said Treliving, repeating the question before rolling out a detailed response. “Well, first of all, he has good speed, great quickness. He plays with tempo in his game. To me, he’s a driver. What I mean by that is he’s an attacker. He attacks seams. He can push defencemen back. He takes pucks to the net. His is an abrasive game. It’s a north-south game. It’s not necessarily one where there’s a lot of east-west into it. Sam, he’s a direct player.

“And then he has the ability to make plays. He has good vision. He can distribute the puck. He can shoot the puck. He can do a lot of things. And subtly, and people might not see this, he’s starting to expand his role. He’s seeing penalty-killing time. And not only is that good in terms of the immediate, because he’s doing a good job at it … But also it’s a way to continue to build that defensive side of his game.â€

Because the Flames aren’t simply trying to develop a centre.

They’re trying to develop a top-tier, two-way centre.

“You look at the teams that win and have won consistently, we all want those guys that put up big points and I think Sam is very capable of that,†Treliving said. “But those teams that have sustained success down the middle, and we hear it all the time, but those centres play 200 feet. Yeah, they contribute offensively. But it’s that growth that a lot of them have gone through to maybe take a little step back from their point production and their game is a more solid game. They’re contributing more on both sides of the puck. Maybe individually, it’s going from 80 points to 65 points. But it’s a hard 65 points and it’s a 200-foot game and it’s getting the puck out at the right time.

“Look at (Anze) Kopitar as an example — and that’s just an example, I’m not comparing players. You can go back in time to the (Mike) Modanos and (Steve) Yzermans, guys that put up big numbers at parts of their careers but when you look at when their teams won, they had also evolved their game into guys that were playing against top players. They weren’t just offensive players. They were playing against top lines. They were killing penalties. They were doing it on both sides of the puck, and they were doing it in a way that their teams were winning and playing late into June and winning Stanley Cups.

“That’s taking it two or three steps forward, but that’s the mindset here,†Treliving continued. “That’s part of the maturation and growth all players will go through but when we talk about Sam specifically, that’s where we see his game growing. He’s an elite competitor. He has all the attributes that can make him very strong centre, and we’re going to continue to work at it.

“A person that is able to play that position, they are so hard to find. So when you think you can develop one, you want to exhaust that opportunity.â€
 

Rubi

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Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
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Seriously? Why don't you fill out the rest of the line-up? I'm on pins and needles waiting to see who player "x's" are and who makes up the 4th line.
 

OvermanKingGainer

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Seriously? Why don't you fill out the rest of the line-up? I'm on pins and needles waiting to see who player "x's" are and who makes up the 4th line.

Depends on the year, really. I think for 2020:

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Phillips
Mangiapane-Backlund-Monahan
Klimchuk-Lazar-Poirier

That'd be pretty good.

But to keep all of that together it would require a discount on Bennett's contract, which we aren't getting if we bridge him.
 

Rubi

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Depends on the year, really. I think for 2020:

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Phillips
Mangiapane-Backlund-Monahan
Klimchuk-Lazar-Poirier

That'd be pretty good.

But to keep all of that together it would require a discount on Bennett's contract, which we aren't getting if we bridge him.
Lets not go into a fantasy "Future World" Lets talk about the 2017-2018 season which is what this thread is about. Give me the 4 lines that you think the Flames should be playing, now.
 

Mr Snrub

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Not really. It's a three line league. And Bennett will continue to get better and more dominant as he approaches his actual prime as a centerman.

Look at the leafs. Bozak was the Leafs' 3C with Marner and JVR at put up 55 points. Kadri was playing 2C but had arguably worse linemates (Connor Brown, Leo Komarov, and Alex Nylander) however he is in his prime and a good example of what Bennett projects as (except not as good).

Keeping Bennett at C and moving him up the lineup when there is an injury and seeing if he sticks full time is absolutely a way Bennett's going to be an offensive force.

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-X
X-Backlund-Monahan

In this scenario you have three killer lines and Bennett is not playing wing nor is anyone losing out on linemate quality.

I'm personally of the opinion that spreading talent throughout your lines only makes sense when you have the requisite depth to do it, and I don't think the Flames have that yet. Aside from that, I also especially don't want to throw Bennett the responsibility of being The Guy (read: centering Gaudreau) when he's still so incredibly inconsistent as a player.

Everything that Gulutzan and Treliving have said is well and good about wanting to develop Bennett as a game changing two-way C - everybody wants that guy on their team, and in some ways it's a "do-over" of developing Bennett to be the guy Monahan should've been. But how much of an opportunity is he going to have to do that when he gets poor deployment and plays with Versteeg and Brouwer? And how much allegiance do you think he's going to have to the team when they basically express they want him to be Nick Bonino?

I already know the way you're going to slant this and it involves Monahan playing wing. That is absolutely not going to happen and you know it, especially not when Bennett puts up less than half as many points as Monahan. Mony is a natural C and easily the most offensively gifted one on the team.

If I were to sum up the matter as it stands now, there is no real way for Bennett to play himself into Monahan or Backlund's spot with the linemates he has now and the usage he's getting. He's stuck at 3C, and you're not going to develop a gamebreaking forward without giving them some tough starts against other gamebreaking forwards; Bennett is not going to become Anze Kopitar getting 13 minutes a game playing with aging veterans. We need another top six winger. This isn't rocket science.
 

Anglesmith

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Lol. One could have made a highlight video of Joe Colborne last summer. That's the opposite of honest analysis.
 

Mr Snrub

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Lol. One could have made a highlight video of Joe Colborne last summer. That's the opposite of honest analysis.

It would be hard for it to look nearly as good as this Bennett video though, I think that's the point. When you cut out the crappy games and his stretches with no confidence, seeing a highlight reel reinforces that the guy seriously has an insane amount of skill.
 

Anglesmith

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It would be hard for it to look nearly as good as this Bennett video though, I think that's the point. When you cut out the crappy games and his stretches with no confidence, seeing a highlight reel reinforces that the guy seriously has an insane amount of skill.

And the counterpoint is that that means relatively little. Most players who make the NHL have a great deal of skill, and will be able to show it in flashes over the length of a full season often enough to make a highlight video. But to what extent does skill alone make a player worthy of a long-term, big-money contract?

Joe Colborne's highlight video would, in fact, display some really high-end skill, because he's a high-skill player. He wasn't drafted as high as he was to play on the third line one day. He's a guy that always had high skill level (which is why his filthy breakaway moves would make for a great highlight video). But he just couldn't think the game quick enough to be effective as a centre.

There are actually several similarities between the two players with the Flames, but they wouldn't normally be compared because of the stark contrast of their build and play-style. Just like Bennett, Colborne had some great, effective stretches on the wing on a line where he was the third-best player. And just like Bennett, when he was asked to drive a line from centre, he wasn't terribly effective and looked completely lost at times. And just like Bennett, he'd have high-skill flashes throughout the season.

Last thing I want to do is overly-criticize Bennett. I want him to do well, and I want him signed ASAP to give him the best possible chance to start the season well. The only thing I'm cheering against right now is a stupid contract that takes on too much risk for a player that many fans have already decided has somewhere around a 0% chance to not hit his ceiling, despite everything we've seen.
 

JPeeper

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Depends on the year, really. I think for 2020:

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Phillips
Mangiapane-Backlund-Monahan
Klimchuk-Lazar-Poirier

That'd be pretty good.

But to keep all of that together it would require a discount on Bennett's contract, which we aren't getting if we bridge him.

Yeah ok buddy.

Monahan goes from being the best Flames center in 2 decades to a 3rd line winger in his 7th year; with Phillips ahead of him on the depth chart.

Never mind the fact that Ferland is on the top line when he is barely a top 6 player.
 

CraigsList

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Depends on the year, really. I think for 2020:

Gaudraeu-Bennett-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Phillips
Mangiapane-Backlund-Monahan
Klimchuk-Lazar-Poirier

That'd be pretty good.

But to keep all of that together it would require a discount on Bennett's contract, which we aren't getting if we bridge him.

Honestly, what makes you think that our whole forward lineup in 2020 will be just Flames draft picks? I don't see any homerism at all in your posts.

And lol at Monahan as the 3rd line RW. Didn't know he sucks at center now and can't even beat Ferland and Phillips in the top 6. Just awful.
 

Yung Rotini

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I can’t wait to put a 60 point, $6M+ center on the third line right wing. That’ll be great. 2020 looks bright, man. How many winger goals will he get in the bottom six?
 

BVicious

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IF Sam doesn't sign can he play in the Olympics?

TSN's Dreger is tweeting that Sam and Flames are far apart and Sam could go overseas. I'm not a fancy post guy so I can't get the tweet in here. Someone will.
 

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