will there ever be a "real" World Cup

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by littleD, Jul 12, 2004.

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  1. littleD

    littleD Registered User

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    One open to all hockey playing countries. Where countries actually have to qualify?

    Or are you happy with the fake version? ;)
     
  2. Vanucks

    Vanucks Registered User

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    Well, the World cup is an invitational tournament, with invites going to the top 8 seeded hockey countries in the world.

    Every country has a chance to go to the Olympics and the World Championships, but they need to qualify. Most countries don't enter, because they can't even put a team together.
     
    Last edited by moderator Pekka Lampinen: Jul 13, 2004
  3. Jasper Nuguya

    Jasper Nuguya Registered User

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    Well, if there was a "real" World Cup, chances are, one of the countries in this one would win it. Of course, if there was a "real" World Cup, it would certainly be interesting to see what would happen. Upsets like Belarus beating Sweden in the Olympics a few years ago are always surprising.

    How exactly would qualifying go though? In Europe, it would make sense because there is more than enough countries there who play hockey. I can't imagine there would be much point in having Team Canada vs. Team Mexico, for instance. Besides Japan, are there any Asian/Oceanic countries that have anything resembling a credible hockey team(China? South Korea? Australia?)

    I think it would be an interesting idea enough though for the future.
     
  4. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    I have been harping on this concept for years but it falls on deaf ears because there is basically nobody of high ranking in the hockey World pushing for it. It could happen some day but the NHL is so dominant in the hockey world that it expects to be put before all else. With the World Cup of Soccer you get even the non fans poking their heads in to watch. I highly doubt you get many for hockey in the current form- a 16 team World Cup complete with qualifying would bring some minnows onto the World stage on its own- not competing against other sports in the Olympics. Hockey would be the focus. It should be hosted or co hosted and qualifying groups would be set up after four ( perhaps eight) countries are seeded. Qualifying could be late August/early September the year prior to the actual event. It could be a success but has no backing so we'll have to be happy with the invitational for now. I think we have the eight best countries at present but the line is getting blurry. The teams from 9 -16 are not that different.
     
  5. Rabid Ranger

    Rabid Ranger 2 is better than one

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    I think it's a nice idea in theory, but hockey is very differant from soccer when it comes to the number of competitive teams. There are 8 top teams in hockey (and that's pushing it), and what, at least 30-40 competitive teams (probably more) in soccer. A very differant dynamic.
     
  6. littleHossa

    littleHossa Registered User

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    I like the World Championship format, and even in the WC there are polarities between the best and worst teams in each division. Hockey is picking up in a lot of countries and might one day become the #2 international sport, as long as there is an NHL however, the countries providing the good players will all be the same.

    We need more domestic leagues like in Soccer where you have 10 Russian teams, 10 French teams, 10 German teams etc all developing their own stars. Even the American soccer team in the last World Cup that got pretty far had their players from their own American leagues. The RSL, maybe the 2nd best hockey league, wouldn't be able hold its own against any of the top 8 teams, maybe only Germany.

    First lower salaries dramatically in the NHL, then have all the russians, finnish play in their own leagues given that the money will be the same in the "North American" league and the "European" leagues, then increase world-wide interest and revenues, make a few trophies like the Fifa Cup, and Voila! This will either never happen or take a hundred years. :D
     
  7. Tretiak

    Tretiak Registered User

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    Yep, that's exactly right.

    On a more personal note, I think they should get rid of the World Cup (and that friggin trophy :mad: ) and bring back the Canada Cup once and for all. :handclap:
     
  8. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    I agree with you on where we are now. I am thinking of the games appeal to the masses with a more global World Cup and i am thinking of where some of these national teams could yet be with even more exposure to the top levels. Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Austria, Switzerland, Japan, Belarus, Ukraine, Estonia, France and Italy have more to give. Its 8 top teams now and who's to say a program cannot get stronger and pull some upsets along the way? We have no Belarus in this event but they slayed Sweden. I still think its worth doing and i'm INSPIRED by what Soccer has-I'm not deterred by its competitive balance.
     
  9. colonel_korn

    colonel_korn Luuuuuuuuuu....lay?

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    There's no way they can have as many countries involved as for soccer, but I think there's enough depth to increase the number of teams from 8 to 12. Say have two pools of six with the top 4 from each pool advancing. Something like

    Canada, USA, Sweden, Russia, Czech, Slovakia, Finland, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Belarus, Latvia.

    While not superpowers, the last 5 teams there still have fairly solid hockey programs/players.

    I guess then the question becomes, at what point do they bring in qualifying? Do the "Big 7" get a bye and the rest have to qualify? You would have a tough time getting the NHL to accept players playing qualifiers as well as the tournament itself, IMO.
     
  10. BAuldie

    BAuldie Registered User

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    If you want a world cup like championship you'll have to settle for the World Championships/Olympics. There isn't enough high level hockey for it. Some day there may be but right now there isn't.
     
  11. onyxdragon

    onyxdragon Registered User

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    :dunno: Good points there.....I would heavily favor the Olympic style where there are two divisions - one lesser, one greater:

    DIVISION A comprising of the top 8 teams of the world:
    Russia, Finland, Canada, Sweden, United States, Slovakia, Czech Republic, and Germany

    DIVISION B comprising of the lesser 16 teams of the world:
    Poland, France, Austria, Switzerland, Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan,
    China, South Korea, Japan, Latvia, Iceland, Australia, Denmark, Norway, and England.

    Only the best 8 from the Division B will pit themselves vs. the Division A teams by categorizing the playoff teams like the #1 seeded team vs. #8 seeded team, etc.

    That would be awesome! :joker:
     
  12. Reilly311

    Reilly311 Guest

    the world cup is pretty pointless now that NHL players can play in the olympics.
     
  13. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    I am detecting a clear hate for all that is NHL. What would it take to make it an international competition in your opinion? You do not have to be a member of the NHLPA to participate.
     
  14. Korkki

    Korkki Registered User

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    WTF? NHL and NHLPA still choose who can play and who can't. This simply is not the best players available tournament...
     
  15. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    Give me a list of those omitted that should be there.
     
  16. Korkki

    Korkki Registered User

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    Simple, Jere Karalahti
     
  17. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    That is what i thought. This is a battle over a man who has it all and pisses it away. Will he be on the Finnish Olympic team?
     
  18. f1nn

    f1nn Registered User

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    Finlands not a superpower?
     
  19. f1nn

    f1nn Registered User

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    Probably
     
  20. f1nn

    f1nn Registered User

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    oops hehe
     
  21. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    So Karahlati's omission is enough to label this tournament a bust? It has more credence than the last two Olympics. Slovakia and Germany were unable to go at full strength.
     
  22. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    That would depend on what you call value. If you are referring to the World Championships as value then we clearly disagree on the term. The IIHF is as much a joke as the NHL with their foolish rankings and farcical changing of formats every year.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2004
  23. f1nn

    f1nn Registered User

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    I think the IIHF is a way better organization than the NHL
     
  24. SwisshockeyAcademy

    SwisshockeyAcademy Registered User

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    I don't mind you saying it but at least come with an argument and evidence to back up the claim.
     
  25. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    assuming that teams would be able to use NHLers in the qualifying round, which countries would qualify that aren't already in it??

    someone might bump germany, but can you honestly say that countries like belarus and switerland should be there over canada, usa, russia, sweden, finland, czech republic and slovakia??

    so 7 of the 8 teams would remain the same and you'd most likely see no change in the medal round...
     
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