Will Matthews match his career high of 40g-29a-69pts this season?

[BertCorbeau]

You are refusing to acknowledge that their team is bad and that good defensive players like ROR even look bad on that team. It's the team and not the player. So you seem like you are just wanting to ram-rod your points through and ignore any other evidence.

Nylander and Kane are two completely different Tiers. I would never in a million years trade Nylander for Kane ever. It's laughable. Nylander in my opinion could be PPG before 2 seasons from now.

Pot meet kettle. If Eichel is good defensively then why is he only start in the defensive zone 38% of the time? (Which, by the way, puts him as the second last for Buffalo forwards in that department)

And are you suggesting that Eichels 41% FO rate is because is the fault of his teammates? And his 48 giveaways as well? (Which, by the way, is by far the most number of giveaways on the team and he has one of the worst ratios in that area on the team).

 

[tom leafers]

I am not making anything up, EDM and Buffalo set an aprox price on RFA of 130k a point on their best year. Do the math on it, that's pretty much the price. 65pts x 130k = 8.5million or if you go with Drais. it works out to like 110k = 7.1 million and I have no doubt Nylander can hit 70pts at this rate.

Even on the low ends.. 11 7.5 7.5 = 26 million

You really think Nylander and Marner are going to demand 8m a season, when David Pastrnak, who has out produced both Nylander and Marner recieved $6.6M? Or Nikolaj Ehlers, who recieved $6m with very comparable numbers to the both of Nyalnder and Marner? At most, Nylander and Marner will receive $6.8m. The only thing buffalo set for us is how much we are going to pay Matthews, which will at the minimum be the same as Eichel.

 

[tom leafers]

The Marner/Nylander comparable is Ehlers @ 6m for 7 years.

McDavid signed his contract Jul 5 2017.
Drai signed his contract Aug 16 2017.
Ehlers signed his contract Oct 4 2017.

Checkmate.

And Pasta, who got $6.6m. and signed in september of 2017. Nylander and Marner have no right to request more than that

 

[thewave]

Pot meet kettle. If Eichel is good defensively then why is he only start in the defensive zone 38% of the time? (Which, by the way, puts him as the second last for Buffalo forwards in that department)

And are you suggesting that Eichels 41% FO rate is because is the fault of his teammates? And his 48 giveaways as well? (Which, by the way, is by far the most number of giveaways on the team and he has one of the worst ratios in that area on the team).

Your main point is Eichel is not good defensively. I pointed out ROR does not look good defensively on that team. I wish FO% was what important, it's just not. I could also argue Nylander takes all the strong side FO. Why? Is Matthews weak on that side? See what I mean?

 

[nobody]

Your main point is Eichel is not good defensively. I pointed out ROR does not look good defensively on that team. I wish FO% was what important, it's just not. I could also argue Nylander takes all the strong side FO. Why? Is Matthews weak on that side? See what I mean?

ROR is trying his best to create offense on that team. A shutdown defensive center can't do a whole lot of shutting down when your team never has the lead. ROR is playing out of his element.

Eichel is a fantastic player and I've watched both him and Auston since their NTDP days and believe me when I say this Auston is a much better hockey player. Jack Eichel pound for pound is stronger, faster and grittier than Auston but Auston thinks the game at a higher level. Offensively I have always been amazed at how efficient Matthews had been because when Eichel is on the team, offenses go through Eichel. For Auston, that's not always the case. He hasn't always been the center piece of offensive schemes. He's just one of those guys that will go out there and do his thing regardless of who or where he plays in the lineup.

In the NHL, Jack Eichel is the Sabres offense more often than not and I don't know if it's fair to compare either guys right now because they're both in vastly different situations. Auston has flourished his complete game but he had a team and supporting staff that helped him cultivate it. Eichel is working with bare bones right now and we honestly don't know how good he really can be.

As of this very moment Auston is producing at the same clip while providing much better 200 ft game and leading his team to B2B playoffs. Jack Eichel is still floundering on a shitty Sabres team. You take Auston for now, in the future that may change.

 

[Liminality]

Mirtle: Maple Leafs need to step up and sign William...

I know, I know another athletic article. This one doesn't talk about Matthews' potential contract but it does mention Nylanders potential contract situation. I think it's going to be a similar one for Matthews when they need to sign him though. Either do the bridge deal and pay more after a couple of years or get the long term deal done right now and save money in the long term.

 

[BlueForever75]

Forever Auston 4:16 !!!!

Eichel will never have the success of Matthews.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Your main point is Eichel is not good defensively. I pointed out ROR does not look good defensively on that team. I wish FO% was what important, it's just not. I could also argue Nylander takes all the strong side FO. Why? Is Matthews weak on that side? See what I mean?

Matthews has taken 566 face-offs this season, Eichel has taken 686 - only 120 more. Even if you put Matthews on his weak side for all 120 of those additional face-offs, and he loses them, he's still at 45% as a success rate. Which is still by far better than Eichel. But that isn't germane to the point.

My main point has been clearly stated is that Matthews is a better all around player. Defense is just one of those factors. Faceoffs are another as well as leadership.

 

[thewave]

Matthews has taken 566 face-offs this season, Eichel has taken 686 - only 120 more. Even if you put Matthews on his weak side for all 120 of those additional face-offs, and he loses them, he's still at 45% as a success rate. Which is still by far better than Eichel. But that isn't germane to the point.

My main point has been clearly stated is that Matthews is a better all around player. Defense is just one of those factors. Faceoffs are another as well as leadership.

Are you going to dismiss that Buffalo itself defensively is a nightmare and state that Eichel is separate from team? That his team does not affect him? Fine whatever faceoff stats, who cares 42 vs 52, 10 per 100 or 60 additional total faceoffs lost. Teams get scored on directly after a draw loss like 2% of the time or something. I think someone did the math and really becomes next to irrelevant outside the final 2mins of play when trailing with an extra attacker or on PK. Matthews doesn't PK

 

[BertCorbeau]

Are you going to dismiss that Buffalo itself defensively is a nightmare and state that Eichel is separate from team? That his team does not affect him? Fine whatever faceoff stats, who cares 42 vs 52, 10 per 100 or 60 additional total faceoffs lost. Teams get scored on directly after a draw loss like 2% of the time or something. I think someone did the math and really becomes next to irrelevant outside the final 2mins of play when trailing with an extra attacker or on PK. Matthews doesn't PK

I haven't even discussed Buffalo's bad team defense. Eichel is part of that bad defensive group. He's not absolved from it. You've got no proof to support that Eichel is good in that area on a bad defensive team. I've pointed out that even on a bad defensive team like the Sabres, Eichel only starts in the defensive zone 38% of the time. That tells me that even though the Sabres are bad defensively, his own coaches don't trust him in his own end and try to shelter him defensively by starting him in the offensive zone more frequently.

 

[thewave]

I haven't even discussed Buffalo's bad team defense. Eichel is part of that bad defensive group. He's not absolved from it. You've got no proof to support that Eichel is good in that area on a bad defensive team. I've pointed out that even on a bad defensive team like the Sabres, Eichel only starts in the defensive zone 38% of the time. That tells me that even though the Sabres are bad defensively, his own coaches don't trust him in his own end and try to shelter him defensively by starting him in the offensive zone more frequently.

How many FO has Nylander taken for Matthews? What zone%? What zone is Nylander more likely to take a strong side faceoff in? I can dissect your argument 1000 which ways until we come to the conclusion that we have only speculative differences and the ultimate determination will come down to production as it always does in hockey in the end.

Matthews should make no more than Eichel (but will only because I forgot a single thing and that is the 5million increase in cap this year) That's it. Any good GM will argue against Matthews camp citing better defensive play vs Eichel. It'll hardly be relevant by the end of it but Goals are a certain edge. They do matter more.

Keep in mind I have stated Eichel is overpaid to begin with.

 

[BlueForever75]

How many FO has Nylander taken for Matthews? What zone%? What zone is Nylander more likely to take a strong side faceoff in? I can dissect your argument 1000 which ways until we come to the conclusion that we have only speculative differences and the ultimate determination will come down to production as it always does in hockey in the end.

Matthews should make no more than Eichel (but will only because I forgot a single thing and that is the 5million increase in cap this year) That's it. Any good GM will argue against Matthews camp citing better defensive play vs Eichel. It'll hardly be relevant by the end of it but Goals are a certain edge. They do matter more.

Keep in mind I have stated Eichel is overpaid to begin with.

Matthews is still the better player and leader. Any other team in NHL including Buffalo would take Matthews over Eichel.

 

[thewave]

Matthews is still the better player and leader. Any other team in NHL including Buffalo would take Matthews over Eichel.

No problem as long as you acknowledge it's your opinion and that it's really quite close to call - to the point where bias could tip the scales one way or the other. We'll know within 5 years or so ultimately the definitive truth but, that Buffalo team, weak management all around.

 

[BlueForever75]

No problem as long as you acknowledge it's your opinion and that it's really quite close to call - to the point where bias could tip the scales one way or the other. We'll know within 5 years or so ultimately the definitive truth but, that Buffalo team, weak management all around.

Again not my bias, facts back it up. And you can poll every GM in the league and they would rather have Matthews. If not every GM at least 90% of them. And included in that 1o% that wouldn't want him would be Buffalo because they wouldn't throw their own player under the bus.

Your right only time will tell, but so far it isn't even close.

 

[BAM]

With 3 potential super-star players on roster? Absolutely not, that team was turned over and new players were brought in. I think 11 or 12? Correct he was the coach already, doesn't matter really though. The point was the transition of roster.

So why isn't Edmonton good? They had many potential superstar players on their roster?

 

[Menzinger]

His comparable players are Eichel and Drai. I imagine all things considered he gets the Eichel contract between the two and I don't think from what I see that he deserves a penny more than that. I am also ready to see Nylander take a line over, it's about time. The guy is absolutely ready for that now and is where we need him going forward. Matthews would then need to show us how he can do with say Kapanen (logical heir)

Are you prepared also to give Nylander 8.5 million for his 66 point pace? @130k evaluations? If not I understand and if you don't understand how a couple over priced signings changed the market that's not my fault. Lou should absolutely hardline this and throw the overpays out of the equation in negotiations.

Though the fact is, Matthews is essentially irreplaceable as an asset and ownership will want the face of the franchise signed at all costs. I can see management making a strong pitch to him to take a “fair” deal for the sake of team competitiveness but I can’t see any scenario where they play hardball wth him.

Matthews is going to get paid, and management will need to pinch pennies elsewhere

 

[thewave]

Though the fact is, Matthews is essentially irreplaceable as an asset and ownership will want the face of the franchise signed at all costs. I can see management making a strong pitch to him to take a “fair” deal for the sake of team competitiveness but I can’t see any scenario where they play hardball wth him.

Matthews is going to get paid, and management will need to pinch pennies elsewhere

Lou would not pay 14m for him. If they want some craziness you think they just get paid? Is that how McDavid went down? You can indeed price yourself out of any equation here.

I would be like, Pardon me? 15m? Direct to market or sitting out in dispute. I would have 0 problems trading him if he wants more than what I can build a team for. What does a player like that get these days? 4x 1sts to the worst team in the league? That's a few lottery picks as they rebuild, sold.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Here's the recipe for Matthews:

Take a team friendly deal.
Bring Lord Stanley to Toronto.
Open a Restaurant.
Take MY money ...
Make a few million a year for the rest of your life.

Oakville Porsche already gave you a Porsche deal.
Did Shanny tell you about making 3 million per as an advisor to the Leafs when you finish your career here ? (we'll keep that on the down low for now. shhhhhhh).

 

[BertCorbeau]

How many FO has Nylander taken for Matthews? What zone%? What zone is Nylander more likely to take a strong side faceoff in? I can dissect your argument 1000 which ways until we come to the conclusion that we have only speculative differences and the ultimate determination will come down to production as it always does in hockey in the end.

Matthews should make no more than Eichel (but will only because I forgot a single thing and that is the 5million increase in cap this year) That's it. Any good GM will argue against Matthews camp citing better defensive play vs Eichel. It'll hardly be relevant by the end of it but Goals are a certain edge. They do matter more.

Keep in mind I have stated Eichel is overpaid to begin with.

Whether Eichel is overpaid to begin or not, his contract is very real and is going to be the absolute floor for Matthews' and his agent in any negotiation. That's how market comparables work. They'll likely come in at McDavid-like money and try to use the inflation of the cap as a justification. The Leafs will probably counter at $9-$10 mill and push the hometown discount, etc. They'll likely end up around $11 if it's an 8 year deal.

The only way I can see less than that $11 mill AAV is if it's a 5 or 6 year term as the shorter term buys out less UFA years. An 8 year term buys out 4 years of UFA eligibility from Matthews.

 

[thewave]

Whether Eichel is overpaid to begin or not, his contract is very real and is going to be the absolute floor for Matthews' and his agent in any negotiation. That's how market comparables work. They'll likely come in at McDavid-like money and try to use the inflation of the cap as a justification. The Leafs will probably counter at $9-$10 mill and push the hometown discount, etc. They'll likely end up around $11 if it's an 8 year deal.

The only way I can see less than that $11 mill AAV is if it's a 5 or 6 year term as the shorter term buys out less UFA years. An 8 year term buys out 4 years of UFA eligibility from Matthews.

That made me think of something. Thanks for bringing it up as well. If UFA is becoming cheaper than RFA it may be better to only pay for RFA years and renegotiate in 6yrs or so for all the big 3. Cap now is better than 2 extra years for these players.

Its just good business sense right? The plan is to win before 6yrs and the extra cap could be a big deal.

 

[Menzinger]

Lou would not pay 14m for him. If they want some craziness you think they just get paid? Is that how McDavid went down? You can indeed price yourself out of any equation here.

I would be like, Pardon me? 15m? Direct to market or sitting out in dispute. I would have 0 problems trading him if he wants more than what I can build a team for. What does a player like that get these days? 4x 1sts to the worst team in the league? That's a few lottery picks as they rebuild, sold.

I don’t think it’s going to take 14 million to sign him though. He’ll get in the 10-12 range.

 

[Menzinger]

Whether Eichel is overpaid to begin or not, his contract is very real and is going to be the absolute floor for Matthews' and his agent in any negotiation. That's how market comparables work. They'll likely come in at McDavid-like money and try to use the inflation of the cap as a justification. The Leafs will probably counter at $9-$10 mill and push the hometown discount, etc. They'll likely end up around $11 if it's an 8 year deal.

The only way I can see less than that $11 mill AAV is if it's a 5 or 6 year term as the shorter term buys out less UFA years. An 8 year term buys out 4 years of UFA eligibility from Matthews.

His contract likely takes 5 min to negotiate and he’ll be locked up for the next 8 years.

 

[BlueForever75]

His contract likely takes 5 min to negotiate and he’ll be locked up for the next 8 years.

Agreed. And don't forget if there is anyone that can convince players to less money or to come to Toronto it is Lou. It was a tougher sell to NJ and they stayed on the cheap and players came. As Lou did with Marleau, Brown, Reilly, Kadri, Zaitsev, etc.... He will do with Matthews and the other 2.

Not a worry in the world. Enjoy this people, we finally have a winner with great young players. Rome wasn't conquered in one day. In due time things will pan out.

 

[diceman934]

No problem as long as you acknowledge it's your opinion and that it's really quite close to call - to the point where bias could tip the scales one way or the other. We'll know within 5 years or so ultimately the definitive truth but, that Buffalo team, weak management all around.

It is just about every persons opinion that Mathews is better in every measurable way. Elichel is a player that is not only a highly sheltered player but is among a group of players considered by GM’s across the league as trouble. Mathews is superior and if we had Elichel he would be in Babs dog house and rightfully so.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

It is just about every persons opinion that Mathews is better in every measurable way. Elichel is a player that is not only a highly sheltered player but is among a group of players considered by GM’s across the league as trouble. Mathews is superior and if we had Elichel he would be in Babs dog house and rightfully so.

yeah Eichel is good but he doesn't touch Matthews. Everyone would take Auston