Will Changes Weaken Parity?

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Weary

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WC Handy said:
Yes, it did. On you. You're the one that believes they meant that literally. :biglaugh:
I guess you're right. I should've realized that it was foolish to believe Bettman and Daly were telling the truth. Normally I would avoid that trap.
 

triggrman

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Newsguyone said:
Parity sucks.
I've gotta tell ya, regular season hockey has been an absolute snooze lately. WHy anyone would pay more than $10 to see Nasvhille vs Columbus is beyond me.
Because they're more exciting than watching the over the hill has beens trap their way through the game?

Nashville v. Columbus is a great game to watch, loads of young talent, aggressive forechecking, and a genuine hate for the opposing team, leading to some really good scraps. Every game was new drama, from Shelly cross checking Erat in the back of the head after a play to Tootoo bitting Wright, to Stephenson blooding up Ling. I'd rather watch these games than most.
 

hockeyfan33

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theBob said:
Im not saying Im for or against any of these changes, and I know some will not be implimented. But it seems like they will almost certainly hurt the worse off (or more defensive) teams and help the better (or more offensive) teams. Is it wise, for a league that is trying to increase revenue, to weaken the parity of the teams?



Increasing offense is more important for the long term health of the league than increasing parity IMO and part of this lockout is to improve the game (i.e. improve offense) and reward teams for offense instead of previoulsy rewarding them for defense (i.e. neutral zone traps have won cups and ruined the game, now it's time to reward offense instead of tight defenses)
 

joepeps

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London Knights said:
The playoffs are fine aside from the fact that you can finish ahead of 5 teams that had a better record than you by winning a division.

Teams need to be rewarded for being the divison leader IMO, but maybe the solution is giving division winners 1st round home ice advantage and after that it goes strictly by record.

I don't want all teams able to compete for the Cup every year. I want to see some usual suspects at the top with other teams building up to be the usual suspects when those teams falter.

joepeps, that is a misunderstood justification for Tampa's success. I too believed that once but then I took a look at their record. Tampa was little more than a .500 team against the Southeast division. Their success against the rest of the league is where they built up their team's record.

Philly fans should know and respect the need for a rest in the playoffs after the past two years against the Leafs. They won both series, but they were heavy physical series that saw both teams come out limping in the end. Having time off would have given both teams (had either won) a much better shot in the next round. In both cases it was the Flyers who advanced, but they had less of a shot the way their team was decimated.

That was only this past year...

When washington made the playoffs it was because they beat the wearker Tampa team.. and others...
 

missK

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joepeps said:
I get what your saying.. but I don't liek the fact that

Washington plays tampa bay 1000 times and carolina is in that divsion too.. and everyone else in that **** division... and tampa gets points and seeds in 1st 2nd or 3rd when they deserve maybe 7th or 8th.... :dunno:

This argument is soooo OLD. We won the damn Stanley Cup and it wasn't because we played Washington a 1000 times. We didn't get 106 point playing just Southeast Division teams, we swept the Flyers and Devils in addition to many other wins 04-05. And once the regular season is over, it a clean slate, everyone starts at the same POINT.
 

joepeps

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missK said:
This argument is soooo OLD. We won the damn Stanley Cup and it wasn't because we played Washington a 1000 times. Once the regular season is over, it a clean slate. We didn't get 106 point playing just Southeast Division teams, we swept the Flyers and Devils in addition to many other wins 04-05.

I never knew you were on the Tampa Team???

Tampa wont he games.. them.. not we...


secondly.. I said before this season.. go back and read........ :teach:

P.S. This has nothing to do with yur stanley cup win, but since you brought it up... you deserved to win the cup... even though Calgary won it first in game 6.... so don't try and deny them a goal........... :shakehead
 

missK

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joepeps said:
I never knew you were on the Tampa Team???

Tampa wont he games.. them.. not we...


secondly.. I said before this season.. go back and read........ :teach:

Your post that I QUOTED above said nothing about "before last season" so you go back and read.
 

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joepeps said:
I never knew you were on the Tampa Team???

Tampa wont he games.. them.. not we...


secondly.. I said before this season.. go back and read........ :teach:

Calling someone out on the "we" versus "them" context? Painted into a corner? Tampa was the best team in the league, and they earned their points by playing every division to a BETTER record than their own. If Tampa had made hay against those weaklings like you suggest, they would have run away and hid on everyone. Its been that way for a couple of years too. That's the fact of the matter. Try arguing that one.

:teach:
 

joepeps

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The Iconoclast said:
Calling someone out on the "we" versus "them" context? Painted into a corner? Tampa was the best team in the league, and they earned their points by playing every division to a BETTER record than their own. If Tampa had made hay against those weaklings like you suggest, they would have run away and hid on everyone. Its been that way for a couple of years too. That's the fact of the matter. Try arguing that one.

:teach:

Tampa has not been the best the past 2 years... and if you read my post later.. I said.. besides the obvious cup win last year..............

Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
New Jersey Devils 2 82 46 20 10 6 108 216 166
Philadelphia Flyers 4 82 45 20 13 4 107 211 166
New York Islanders 8 82 35 34 11 2 83 224 231
New York Rangers 9 82 32 36 10 4 78 210 231
Pittsburgh Penguins 14 82 27 44 6 5 65 189 255
Northeast Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
Ottawa Senators 1 82 52 21 8 1 113 263 182
Toronto Maple Leafs 5 82 44 28 7 3 98 236 208
Boston Bruins 7 82 36 31 11 4 87 245 237
Montreal Canadiens 10 82 30 35 8 9 77 206 234
Buffalo Sabres 12 82 27 37 10 8 72 190 219
Southeast Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
Tampa Bay Lightning 3 82 36 25 16 5 93 219 210
Washington Capitals 6 82 39 29 8 6 92 224 220
Atlanta Thrashers 11 82 31 39 7 5 74 226 284
Florida Panthers 13 82 24 36 13 9 70 176 237
Carolina Hurricanes 15 82 22 43 11 6 61 171 240

2002-2003 Tampa got seeded higher than Philly and toronto with less points



N O R T H E A S T GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA HOME AWAY
Boston 82 43 24 6 9 101 236 201 23-11-2-5 20-13-4-4
Toronto 82 43 25 10 4 100 249 207 24-11-6-0 19-14-4-4
Ottawa 82 39 27 9 7 94 243 208 21-13-3-4 18-14-6-3
Montreal 82 36 31 12 3 87 207 209 21-13-6-1 15-18-6-2
Buffalo 82 35 35 11 1 82 213 200 20-16-5-0 15-19-6-1
S O U T H E A S T GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA HOME AWAY
Carolina 82 35 26 16 5 91 217 217 15-13-11-2 20-13-5-3
Washington 82 36 33 11 2 85 228 240 21-12-6-2 15-21-5-0
Tampa Bay 82 27 40 11 4 69 178 219 16-17-5-3 11-23-6-1
Florida 82 22 44 10 6 60 180 250 11-23-3-4 11-21-7-2
Atlanta 82 19 47 11 5 54 187 288 11-21-9-0 8-26-2-


carolina got seeded higher than Toronto NYI and Ottawa

care for me to go on and prove my point???? :shakehead
 

King'sPawn

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Weary said:
I guess you're right. I should've realized that it was foolish to believe Bettman and Daly were telling the truth. Normally I would avoid that trap.

I don't think you want to know what Bettman and Daly are really thinking at times. They have to incorporate Public Relations in their statements to appease a broad stroke of fanbase. Anything less would have us calling for their heads even more than we do already.

As for the 7-10 seeds doing a preliminary round, I'm in favor of it. You have fewer fire sales because more teams have a shot at the playoffs. You'll see more players getting traded for value rather than for dumping salary. There's also added revenue. And it doesn't stretch the playoffs for a ridiculous period of time, unlike the counter suggestion of "Well why don't they just have ALL the teams in the playoffs?"

I'm not in favor of the shootouts, but I will concede they could certainly help the game and increase interest in the game. The NHL is a business after all, and if we, as a collective fanbase, want to avoid another CBA issue like this one, we have to accept some changes will be made to bring in more revenue. The less money owners are losing, the easier it would be for any kind of agreement to be made.
 

King'sPawn

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joepeps said:
carolina got seeded higher than Toronto NYI and Ottawa

care for me to go on and prove my point???? :shakehead

Every division should be represented in the playoffs with at least a team. Just as every team should be represented in the all-stars with at least one player. What's your solution if the top seed is 9th in the conference? Kick it up to 8th spot arbitrarily?

Division winners get a bonus for the playoffs, just as they should. No reason two division winners should square off at the beginning of the playoffs.
 

joepeps

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King'sPawn said:
Every division should be represented in the playoffs with at least a team. Just as every team should be represented in the all-stars with at least one player. What's your solution if the top seed is 9th in the conference? Kick it up to 8th spot arbitrarily?

Division winners get a bonus for the playoffs, just as they should. No reason two division winners should square off at the beginning of the playoffs.


You could do that... but when you have 20 teams making the playoffs.. it wont be a problem..... :teach: (small small small small small not going to happen chance)
 

PecaFan

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London Knights said:
Philly fans should know and respect the need for a rest in the playoffs after the past two years against the Leafs. They won both series, but they were heavy physical series that saw both teams come out limping in the end. Having time off would have given both teams (had either won) a much better shot in the next round.

Only problem with your theory is that the proposed system doesn't give teams a rest during the playoffs. It gives them a small rest *before* the playoffs.

And remember, most of the other teams will get the rest too. Does it help Detroit if Colorado, Dallas, and Vancouver get to rest as well?

And in exchange for that small rest, they get to play a team who's already in playoff form, are playing extremely well, have shaken off any rust or nervousness they may have had entering the playffs, and are highly confident having already won one playoff series.

Expanding the playoffs in this way will lead to more upsets, not less.
 

joepeps

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PecaFan said:
Only problem with your theory is that the proposed system doesn't give teams a rest during the playoffs. It gives them a small rest *before* the playoffs.

And remember, most of the other teams will get the rest too. Does it help Detroit if Colorado, Dallas, and Vancouver get to rest as well?

And in exchange for that small rest, they get to play a team who's already in playoff form, are playing extremely well, have shaken off any rust or nervousness they may have had entering the playffs, and are highly confident having already won one playoff series.

Expanding the playoffs in this way will lead to more upsets, not less.


I don't see the difference in 1 thing...

peple compare a balance of $ for $

Toronto 60 mil Calgary 30 mill

Toronto Players
ex. Sundin 9 mil
Belfour 7 mil

Calgary
player x 3 mil
player y 4 mil

now under a new CBA

Toronto Players
ex. Sundin 6 mil
Belfour 5 mil

Calgary
player x 2 mil
player y 3 mil

it's still the same players.. it doesn't matter how much they get paid.. it only matters how much a team can afford and all they want to do is make a profit....

alot of these teams don't even care if they win the cup... it's a shame.. they just wanna make money...

and rightfully so..... but teams like Toronto Philly Colorado want to winthe cup and compete for their fans.. as well as make money
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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joepeps said:
Tampa has not been the best the past 2 years... and if you read my post later.. I said.. besides the obvious cup win last year..............

Eastern Conference
Atlantic Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
New Jersey Devils 2 82 46 20 10 6 108 216 166
Philadelphia Flyers 4 82 45 20 13 4 107 211 166
New York Islanders 8 82 35 34 11 2 83 224 231
New York Rangers 9 82 32 36 10 4 78 210 231
Pittsburgh Penguins 14 82 27 44 6 5 65 189 255
Northeast Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
Ottawa Senators 1 82 52 21 8 1 113 263 182
Toronto Maple Leafs 5 82 44 28 7 3 98 236 208
Boston Bruins 7 82 36 31 11 4 87 245 237
Montreal Canadiens 10 82 30 35 8 9 77 206 234
Buffalo Sabres 12 82 27 37 10 8 72 190 219
Southeast Division Rank GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA
Tampa Bay Lightning 3 82 36 25 16 5 93 219 210
Washington Capitals 6 82 39 29 8 6 92 224 220
Atlanta Thrashers 11 82 31 39 7 5 74 226 284
Florida Panthers 13 82 24 36 13 9 70 176 237
Carolina Hurricanes 15 82 22 43 11 6 61 171 240

2002-2003 Tampa got seeded higher than Philly and toronto with less points



N O R T H E A S T GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA HOME AWAY
Boston 82 43 24 6 9 101 236 201 23-11-2-5 20-13-4-4
Toronto 82 43 25 10 4 100 249 207 24-11-6-0 19-14-4-4
Ottawa 82 39 27 9 7 94 243 208 21-13-3-4 18-14-6-3
Montreal 82 36 31 12 3 87 207 209 21-13-6-1 15-18-6-2
Buffalo 82 35 35 11 1 82 213 200 20-16-5-0 15-19-6-1
S O U T H E A S T GP W L T OTL PTS GF GA HOME AWAY
Carolina 82 35 26 16 5 91 217 217 15-13-11-2 20-13-5-3
Washington 82 36 33 11 2 85 228 240 21-12-6-2 15-21-5-0
Tampa Bay 82 27 40 11 4 69 178 219 16-17-5-3 11-23-6-1
Florida 82 22 44 10 6 60 180 250 11-23-3-4 11-21-7-2
Atlanta 82 19 47 11 5 54 187 288 11-21-9-0 8-26-2-


carolina got seeded higher than Toronto NYI and Ottawa

care for me to go on and prove my point???? :shakehead

Your point was that Tampa got where they did by fattening up on the Southleast, which is wrong. Tampa actually had their worst record against their own division. They had a better record against each of the other divisions. That's the point and the one YOU originally brought up.
 
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