Will Anaheim be able to make the cap?

[Ford Prefect]

I am looking at the Duck's payroll for the coming season and think it distinctly possible they may not be able to field a complete roster under the 39 million cap. So far they have $33,256,600 tied up in only 13 players (this doesn't cover Jason Marshall's contract. I can't find the figures for that). In order to field 22 players, they are going to have to sign 9 more players at a shade over the minimum. Chistov is a RFA, so I think they're gonna have to pony up a little bit of change, making it impossible to sign the remaining players with the space left. Could the commissioner void some of their free agent signings (like S. Niedermeyer)? Would they be forced to make a trade? (any other team would sure have them over a barrel). Looks to me like poor planning on the part of the Ducks.

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[Captain Ron]

I am looking at the Duck's payroll for the coming season and think it distinctly possible they may not be able to field a complete roster under the 39 million cap. So far they have $33,256,600 tied up in only 13 players (this doesn't cover Jason Marshall's contract. I can't find the figures for that). In order to field 22 players, they are going to have to sign 9 more players at a shade over the minimum. Chistov is a RFA, so I think they're gonna have to pony up a little bit of change, making it impossible to sign the remaining players with the space left. Could the commissioner void some of their free agent signings (like S. Niedermeyer)? Would they be forced to make a trade? (any other team would sure have them over a barrel). Looks to me like poor planning on the part of the Ducks.

More than likely the Ducks will have to trade at least one of their higher paid players. I think it may take a season or two for some GM's to get used to this cap thing.

 

[Jerky Leclerc]

Forgive me if this may sound ignorant but can the Ducks give someone like Sykora an extension for another year at 450k. Then buy him out next year. Since the cap is evenly divided throughout the life of the contract, would that give Anaheim more cap space?

 

[NHLFanSince2020]

Forgive me if this may sound ignorant but can the Ducks give someone like Sykora an extension for another year at 450k. Then buy him out next year. Since the cap is evenly divided throughout the life of the contract, would that give Anaheim more cap space?

I wonder if that kind of loophole was covered in the CBA.
They took a lot of time going over that thing, I wonder if they addressed that.

 

[Captain Ron]

Forgive me if this may sound ignorant but can the Ducks give someone like Sykora an extension for another year at 450k. Then buy him out next year. Since the cap is evenly divided throughout the life of the contract, would that give Anaheim more cap space?

Even if that were possible. Do you really think Sykora would accept a contract extension of $450,000. What would his motivation be for taking that kind of a deal?

 

[Ford Prefect]

Forgive me if this may sound ignorant but can the Ducks give someone like Sykora an extension for another year at 450k. Then buy him out next year. Since the cap is evenly divided throughout the life of the contract, would that give Anaheim more cap space?

I didn't even know that was how the cap applied. I am looking at TSN's website, and they have Rick Nash at 3.5 million for the coming season. He signed a 5 yr 27 million contract. That would translate to 5.4 million this season. I thought it was the amount they were going to pay that year.


As for the buyout plan you got, I think that whatever they spend on the buyout goes to the salary cap. They would have 2/3 going to the cap and then have to sign another player. Plus, I don't know why Sykora would be willing to sign for the minimum.

 

[infected13]

cause he would stand nothing to lose. If his contract was gonna be up anyways then it would be bonus cash if he got bought out right before continuing with FA.

 

[Jerky Leclerc]

Even if that were possible. Do you really think Sykora would accept a contract extension of $450,000. What would his motivation be for taking that kind of a deal?

You guys are the geniuses, I just post here.

 

[Guy Legend]

cause he would stand nothing to lose. If his contract was gonna be up anyways then it would be bonus cash if he got bought out right before continuing with FA.

You can't buy out contracts. That provision was temporary.

Theoretically, Sykora could sign for the minimum and drastically lower his impact on the team cap. But again, no reason for him to do that considering that he would have to play for the minimum the following year.

 

[Jerky Leclerc]

You can't buy out contracts. That provision was temporary.

Theoretically, Sykora could sign for the minimum and drastically lower his impact on the team cap. But again, no reason for him to do that considering that he would have to play for the minimum the following year.

The Ducks would take a small hit on the cap but 2/3 of 450k is nothing if they can add 1.3 million in cap space for this year. I'm sure Burke would have to add a stipulation to buyout the contract for Sykora to sign.

 

[Captain Ron]

cause he would stand nothing to lose. If his contract was gonna be up anyways then it would be bonus cash if he got bought out right before continuing with FA.

What if he signed the extension thinking they were going to buy him out. Then at the end of the season a team that needs to reach the cap minimum trades for him. He would therefore cost X number of dollars towards the cap but the team would only have to actually pay him $450,000. A team like the Capitals would jump all over that. I don't think Sykora would be too happy with this scenario.

 

[Captain Ron]

The Ducks would take a small hit on the cap but 2/3 of 450k is nothing if they can add 1.3 million in cap space for this year. I'm sure Burke would have to add a stipulation to buyout the contract for Sykora to sign.

I am pretty sure you couldn't put a buyout stipulation in a contract. I couldn't see the league allowing that.

 

[coolguy21415]

You can't buy out contracts. That provision was temporary.

Theoretically, Sykora could sign for the minimum and drastically lower his impact on the team cap. But again, no reason for him to do that considering that he would have to play for the minimum the following year.

I was under the impression that you could negotiate a contract buy out but the cap hit would stay, or a percentage would stay or something like that.. where's that CBA FAQ when you need it.

 

[Crazy_Ike]

Remember you don't have to go into the season below the cap. You just have to ensure you don't spend over the cap as the season goes on (presumably near the end of it if you're just over).

This means the Ducks have plenty of time, several months, to shed salary.

However it's not a good idea to go into the season over cap as your options are horribly limited in case of injury and every GM in the league has you over a barrel when you try to get back under. Witness the Flyers giving the Kings a third round pick just to take a good but expensive player in J.R. getting nothing in return, and that was before the season even started! (on the other hand, L.A. was the only team Roenick would waive his no-trade for, so the squeeze was even worse than normal on the Flyers...)

 

[Spankatola Jamnuts*]

The local papers and Burke himself have said repeatedly that there is room.

Link

With Thursday's acquisition of prize unrestricted free-agent defenseman Scott Niedermayer and the signing of Marshall, the Ducks have just short of $36 million committed to 13 established players under contract and four more who have received qualifying offers. That leaves a little more than $3 million to fill the remaining five or six roster spots.

"We're crowding up against the cap, and you have to leave some room, if we're doing well, to add at the (trade) deadline," Ducks general manager Brian Burke said. "That's not to say we won't move someone (to free up payroll space)."

Burke has also said he'll carry a 22-man roster. That means 5 players must sign for an average of $600,000 or less, or the qualified veterans (like Chistov for example) take a hike and some space is freed that way. It's really not as dire as it's being made out to be.

 

[kdb209]

You can't buy out contracts. That provision was temporary.

Theoretically, Sykora could sign for the minimum and drastically lower his impact on the team cap. But again, no reason for him to do that considering that he would have to play for the minimum the following year.

No, what was temporary was buyouts that would not count against the cap. Any further buyouts (including any in future years) will count against the cap.

Actually, it is uncertain during what periods buyouts can occur.

The CBA FAQ Critical Dates lists a second buyout period only for teams hit by arbitration.

September 4 Last Day for Second Buy-Out Period [Only for Clubs with Salary Arbitration Cases] (Latest Day for Clubs Receiving Salary Arbitration Awards on September 2 to Exercise Second Buy-Out Option)

The old Standard Players Contract only allowed a window from the end of the season untill July 1 for buyouts to occur. Now the SPC is modified by whatever the new terms of the CBA say.

And it would be stupid for Sykora to agree to any min salary extention. There is no way legally that the Ducks could guarantee that they would buy him out. In fact if they even made that promise (as a condition for the extention) it would surely violate CBA cap rules concerning side agreements and full disclosure of all terms and would likely lead to heavy sanctions.

 

[kdb209]

Remember you don't have to go into the season below the cap. You just have to ensure you don't spend over the cap as the season goes on (presumably near the end of it if you're just over).

This means the Ducks have plenty of time, several months, to shed salary.

Not true.

That was the pre-CBA speculation (including here from the esteemed Bob McK), but has been explicitly contradicted by multiple sources - including the CBA FAQ.

CLUB PAYROLLS

What will be the range of Club payrolls?

The payroll range in Year One (2005-06) of the CBA will be $21.5 million (U.S.) at the lower limit and $39 million (U.S.) at the upper limit. A Club's payroll will include all salaries, signing bonuses and performance bonuses paid to players. Except in the case of bona fide long-term injury (injuries that sideline a player for a minimum of 24 days and 10 games) to one or more of a club's players, Club payrolls will never be permitted to be below the minimum or in excess of the maximum. Clubs at or near the upper limit that have players who incur a bona fide long-term injury will be entitled to replace up to the full value of the injured player's NHL salary (even if such salary would result in the club's team salary exceeding the upper limit). The "replacement salary" will not count against the club's upper limit but will count against the League-wide players' share. Upon return of the injured player, the team must come into immediate compliance with the requirements of the payroll range.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

Chistov is staying in Russia, so if Burke follows his 22-man roster plan, we're very close to being under the cap. Any concern is solved by a guy like Getzlaf spending some time in Portland, or even Andy McDonald being sent down to Portland or traded, and replaced by a minimum-wager.

So, to answer the question, yes, Anaheim will make the cap. I'm still expecting a move of some sort to free up some room for a trade deadline acquisition, though, but it won't be anything big, and it won't be a JR-type move.

 

[Captain Ron]

The local papers and Burke himself have said repeatedly that there is room.

Link



Burke has also said he'll carry a 22-man roster. That means 5 players must sign for an average of $600,000 or less, or the qualified veterans (like Chistov for example) take a hike and some space is freed that way. It's really not as dire as it's being made out to be.

As of right now the Ducks have 14 guys under contract for about $33.75 million. So that leaves $5.25 million to sign 8 guys. If those 8 guys averaged $600,000 the Ducks payroll would be at $38,550,000. You would be at the cap limit with half of you team being AHL quality guys. Is that what you want to try and fight for a playoff spot with?

 

[me2]

And it would be stupid for Sykora to agree to any min salary extention. There is no way legally that the Ducks could guarantee that they would buy him out. In fact if they even made that promise (as a condition for the extention) it would surely violate CBA cap rules concerning side agreements and full disclosure of all terms and would likely lead to heavy sanctions.

I was wondering about signing an extention, then buying him out this year (spreading the buyout over 2 x the length of the deal). Setting aside that fact that it is likely to be disallowed by the NHL headoffice on various grounds, its not really a violation cap space. All that would be happening is the Ducks would end up paying out an extra $300K. The advantage for the Ducks is spreading it over more years. So its a bigger combined cap hit but a lower hit in the first few years. I'm not sure it is really worth it for the Ducks, just get it over and done with quickly.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

As of right now the Ducks have 14 guys under contract for about $33.75 million. So that leaves $5.25 million to sign 8 guys. If those 8 guys averaged $600,000 the Ducks payroll would be at $38,550,000. You would be at the cap limit with half of you team being AHL quality guys. Is that what you want to try and fight for a playoff spot with?

This is Anaheim's salary structure as of now:


S.Niedermayer-6.75
Fedorov-6.08
Giguere-3.99
Sykora-3.116
Ozolinsh-2.75
Rucchin-2.261
Carney-2.052
R.Niedermayer-2
Visnevski-1.14
Leclerc-1.14
Lupul-0.9006
Getzlaf-0.8664
McDonald-0.627
Bryzgalov-0.456
Fedoruk-0.45
Marshall-0.45

That's 16 players for $35.029 million. $3.971 left for 6 players. Salei's QO is $1.824, Pahlsson's is $0.4598, and guys like Moen and Konopka will be making the league minimum. So that's $0.788 million for two roster spots. We'll still likely be over, but it's much easier to get out of. Heck, if Salei accepts less than his QO, this whole thing might be solved right then and there. Half of our team won't be AHL-quality.

 

[Captain Ron]

This is Anaheim's salary structure as of now:


S.Niedermayer-6.75
Fedorov-6.08
Giguere-3.99
Sykora-3.116
Ozolinsh-2.75
Rucchin-2.261
Carney-2.052
R.Niedermayer-2
Visnevski-1.14
Leclerc-1.14
Lupul-0.9006
Getzlaf-0.8664
McDonald-0.627
Bryzgalov-0.456
Fedoruk-0.45
Marshall-0.45

That's 16 players for $35.029 million. $3.971 left for 6 players. Salei's QO is $1.824, Pahlsson's is $0.4598, and guys like Moen and Konopka will be making the league minimum. So that's $0.788 million for two roster spots. We'll still likely be over, but it's much easier to get out of. Heck, if Salei accepts less than his QO, this whole thing might be solved right then and there. Half of our team won't be AHL-quality.

From the calculations you used you still could not get under the cap. Also do you think the Ducks will be injury free this season? If not where will you get the cap space to call up guys to replace guys on the IR?

 

[Egil]

Any buyouts outside the "no cap hit period" are for 2/3 the contract amount over 2 times the contract length. So you basically take a cap hit of 1/3 of the contract for twice the length of the contract.

 

[Snap Wilson]

From the calculations you used you still could not get under the cap. Also do you think the Ducks will be injury free this season? If not where will you get the cap space to call up guys to replace guys on the IR?

Injury replacements don't count against the cap unless their salary exceeds the salary of the injured player that they're replacing.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Remember you don't have to go into the season below the cap. You just have to ensure you don't spend over the cap as the season goes on (presumably near the end of it if you're just over).

This means the Ducks have plenty of time, several months, to shed salary.

However it's not a good idea to go into the season over cap as your options are horribly limited in case of injury and every GM in the league has you over a barrel when you try to get back under. Witness the Flyers giving the Kings a third round pick just to take a good but expensive player in J.R. getting nothing in return, and that was before the season even started! (on the other hand, L.A. was the only team Roenick would waive his no-trade for, so the squeeze was even worse than normal on the Flyers...)

That is wrong, says the CBA FAQ. You can never go over the cap during the season. That was a rumour propagated by BobMcKenzie.