Why the IIHF WC is important

[twelve]

It's not a good idea to underestimate the world championships as some of the posters here are doing. Especially as it seems that some European leagues are (very) slowly closing the gap between the quality of hockey played there and in the NHL. Yes, there's a lot of prestige attached to the Stanley Cup, but 'noblesse oblige': The NHL has to make sure that it stays the best. And the best way to show that it's still the best is through comparison, like in the world championships. Also, the worlds are a great place to see the talents playing in other leagues, in order to select the best players for NHL drafts.

I think it's dangerous for Canada to underestimate the world championships. Till now, the team always ended up somewhere in the top group. But imagine if the team ended up ninth three times in a row, due simply to the fact that too many good players couldn't or wouldn't play for their country..! It wouldn't matter that the best national league was in NA, the loss of prestige for the hockey country would still be huge. To show lack of interest in the worlds when the own team wins most of the time is possible, to show the same lack of interest when the own team starts to loose one time too often, would be seen as ridiculous.

I don't think that Canada will end up ninth any time soon, but if the attitude of the players asked to play for their country at the world championships gets worse, there might come a time when the selection that is on the roster just isn't enough. I'm convinced that the attitude of the fans and players reflect on each other, and that players of a country are motivated more to play for the national team when they are assured of the regard of their fans. So it is also up to the fans to show interest in what kind of hockey is played on an international level.

 

[JVR]

The WC is important for German hockey because it's the only time there's hockey in free tv and the media actually seems to notice it.

 

[ts11]

The WC is important for German hockey because it's the only time there's hockey in free tv and the media actually seems to notice it.

Sad but true...(besides the Olympic games)

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

It's not a good idea to underestimate the world championships as some of the posters here are doing. Especially as it seems that some European leagues are (very) slowly closing the gap between the quality of hockey played there and in the NHL. Yes, there's a lot of prestige attached to the Stanley Cup, but 'noblesse oblige': The NHL has to make sure that it stays the best. And the best way to show that it's still the best is through comparison, like in the world championships. Also, the worlds are a great place to see the talents playing in other leagues, in order to select the best players for NHL drafts.

I think it's dangerous for Canada to underestimate the world championships. Till now, the team always ended up somewhere in the top group. But imagine if the team ended up ninth three times in a row, due simply to the fact that too many good players couldn't or wouldn't play for their country..! It wouldn't matter that the best national league was in NA, the loss of prestige for the hockey country would still be huge. To show lack of interest in the worlds when the own team wins most of the time is possible, to show the same lack of interest when the own team starts to loose one time too often, would be seen as ridiculous.

I don't think that Canada will end up ninth any time soon, but if the attitude of the players asked to play for their country at the world championships gets worse, there might come a time when the selection that is on the roster just isn't enough. I'm convinced that the attitude of the fans and players reflect on each other, and that players of a country are motivated more to play for the national team when they are assured of the regard of their fans. So it is also up to the fans to show interest in what kind of hockey is played on an international level.

It's always nice to hear that a person from Switzerland has the courtesy to judge the attitude of Canadian players, something you clearly do not understand.

European leagues do not come close to the NHL in terms of the pressure and exhaustion that they place on their players. By the time they finish the season, there is only 4 months until they start training camp the next year. If you end up playing in these championships, that cuts another few weeks of rest out of their summer, the only time they have to live their lives and heal injuries. For some players who have made runs in the playoffs in past years, this might be the first opportunity to rest more than two or three months in years.

Now tell me if you would want to go over and play in these European Championships, where they invite Canada and the US as a courtesy? And,here's my favourite, you judge Canadian hockey fans, who show up everywhere and anywhere to support their team in these tournaments, often being the only fans that show up. Pardon us if we don't consider your World Championships the high prize that you do. The IIHHF has never until next year had the World CVhampionships in the country that put hockey on the map, nor do they have the interest in waiting until the NHL season is over. Why the hell should Canadian fans/players put so much into a tournament that has basically done nothing to accomodate the biggest hockey market in the world?

I don't care if you say our team sucks, but don't judge the fans or players based on our unwillingness to get excited about this tournament that has all but told us it doesn't care about us.

 

[Talentless Practise*]

Pardon us if we don't consider your World Championships the high prize that you do.

Who is this "we" you talk about? Oh, i'm sorry, i didn't get the memo about you being the sole representative of Canadian hockey players and fans regarding their interests.

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

Who is this "we" you talk about? Oh, i'm sorry, i didn't get the memo about you being the sole representative of Canadian hockey players and fans regarding their interests.

The response was to a comment that treated Canadian hockey fans as a whole autonomous apathetic group. I was making an argument to the contrary. It's called rhetoric. Go to school. Learn.

 

[Talentless Practise*]

The response was to a comment that treated Canadian hockey fans as a whole autonomous apathetic group. I was making an argument to the contrary.

Nice.

Now, what has this to do with my question?

 

[twelve]

The response was to a comment that treated Canadian hockey fans as a whole autonomous apathetic group. I was making an argument to the contrary. It's called rhetoric. Go to school. Learn.

Read my post carefully. You will notice that it refers to 'some posters' in the first sentence. Furthermore it is obvious that the greater part of the NA public - which includes Canadians - sees the worlds as not important. That I can correctly write 'the greater part' in this context is, in my opinion, the problem.


Yes, I judge the Canadian players. The same way you judge Swiss players. That's how the human mind works.

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

Read my post carefully. You will notice that it refers to 'some posters' in the first sentence. Furthermore it is obvious that the greater part of the NA public - which includes Canadians - sees the worlds as not important. That I can correctly write 'the greater part' in this context is, in my opinion, the problem.


Yes, I judge the Canadian players. The same way you judge Swiss players. That's how the human mind works.

You judge them based on what, though? You have no knowledge or sympathy for what NHL hockey puts its players through or what it's like to have the IIHF hold their "most prestigious" tournament while we are in the middle of the most important part of our league's season.

If you are going to make judgements about the attitude of our players and fans, you should at least take into account the fact that for this tournament, the IIHF pretty much ignores the NHL and North American hockey fans, so the attitude of North American players/fans to ignore the tournament is quite jusitified.

No one seems to be willing to acknowledge this fundamental point.

 

[itshomerdoh]

Along those lines, I was shocked to hear today that the World Hockey Championships will be played in Canada for the first time ever next year. I couldn't really believe it.

 

[TruthDeliveryVehicle*]

Read my post carefully. You will notice that it refers to 'some posters' in the first sentence. Furthermore it is obvious that the greater part of the NA public - which includes Canadians - sees the worlds as not important. That I can correctly write 'the greater part' in this context is, in my opinion, the problem.


Yes, I judge the Canadian players. The same way you judge Swiss players. That's how the human mind works.

Also, I never judged any Swiss players or fans, although if I did it might go something like this.

Since when does Switzerland get to lecture other parts of the world about apathy?

 

[eme]

I don't understand why they don't play this tournament after the Stanley Cup (or right before everyones respective seasons). That way all the hockey world's eyes are on the tournament, and there would be better players. Kind of like having a World Cup every year, except at only 1 location.

Tournament after Stanley Cup would require the stanley cup finals to end way earlier than they are now. In Europe the national icehockey leagues end few weeks or so before the World Championships. This would mean a two month's period of time for the players coming from europe to tournaments, and who wants to play hockey in the middle of their holiday from hockey? Also, the latter wouldnt work, since the form of players is unknown.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

It's not a good idea to underestimate the world championships as some of the posters here are doing. Especially as it seems that some European leagues are (very) slowly closing the gap between the quality of hockey played there and in the NHL. Yes, there's a lot of prestige attached to the Stanley Cup, but 'noblesse oblige': The NHL has to make sure that it stays the best. And the best way to show that it's still the best is through comparison, like in the world championships. Also, the worlds are a great place to see the talents playing in other leagues, in order to select the best players for NHL drafts.

I think it's dangerous for Canada to underestimate the world championships. Till now, the team always ended up somewhere in the top group. But imagine if the team ended up ninth three times in a row, due simply to the fact that too many good players couldn't or wouldn't play for their country..! It wouldn't matter that the best national league was in NA, the loss of prestige for the hockey country would still be huge. To show lack of interest in the worlds when the own team wins most of the time is possible, to show the same lack of interest when the own team starts to loose one time too often, would be seen as ridiculous.

I don't think that Canada will end up ninth any time soon, but if the attitude of the players asked to play for their country at the world championships gets worse, there might come a time when the selection that is on the roster just isn't enough. I'm convinced that the attitude of the fans and players reflect on each other, and that players of a country are motivated more to play for the national team when they are assured of the regard of their fans. So it is also up to the fans to show interest in what kind of hockey is played on an international level.

I respect that the "World" Championships are important in Europe, if for no other reason that the best Euro players are in the NHL, and this gives Europeans a chance to see them play at home.

To be fair though, it really should be renamed the European Championships. Played in Europe, European rules, European sized rinks, doesn't sound like a very international tournament.

In my opinion Canada and the US should pull out of the tournament. Basically none of the NA Olympic level players attend, so you can't even say it helps develop our national teams. I don't see too many other team sports holding a World tournament every year, and if North Amercians don't take it seriously they shouldn't participate.

The IIHF needs to reform itself. The majority of the Olympic players are from the NHL, and they really should be playing those tournaments by NHL rules. The current system favours the Europeans, and they no longer need that crutch.

 

[hdw]

I respect that the "World" Championships are important in Europe, if for no other reason that the best Euro players are in the NHL, and this gives Europeans a chance to see them play at home.

To be fair though, it really should be renamed the European Championships. Played in Europe, European rules, European sized rinks, doesn't sound like a very international tournament.

Just to restate, I'm not saying that it's important in NA, just that it's important to hockey in general.

Actually it's not european rules nor european sized rinks.
It's international rules and rink sizes.

Both US hockey and Canada hockey are members of IIHF and have just as much influence as any other nations.

But NHL isn't a member, nor is SEL, RSL, SM-liiga or any other proffessional hockey league.

International hockey is defined by the individual national federations, not by the biggest pro leagues.

The big difference is that proffessional hockey took off ages ago in NA, creating a line between 'pro hockey' and hockey in general.

This didn't happen until much much later in other parts of the world, and in most parts it hasn't happen yet.

And this creates a big difference, NHL doesn't bother much about what US and Canada hockey says, nor what IIHF says, unless they have something to gain.

The other (and younger) leagues are still symbiotic with their federations. SEL knows that Tre Kronor games are the most viewed, most talked about, most noted hockey games in the nation. So they are important to keep hockey intresting in Sweden, which means that it increases the value of the commercial product that SEL is selling.

But my original point remains.

Canada and the US have the deepest pools of hockey talent in the world. But deepest doesn't mean the only pools. There are some hockey talents in other places (like Örnsköldsvik) that have some talent.

And those places outside of the NA, and the talents they have, are motivated by what they see, hear and read in the media, it's what they talk about, and that is international tournaments.

So in some ways, those international tournaments does mean something to hockey in NA. They where and remain the motivation behind most of the euro players you have in NHL today.

I've said it before but I'd say it again.

When Saku Koivu was growing up and playing pond hockey or going to practice after practice, he didn't dream of the Canadien's massive history and one day wearing that C, it was scoring the GWG in an olympic final (vs Sweden I'd guess).

Different streams float different boats, and the fact that one kind of boat is more common doesn't mean that all other boats, nor streams, are irrellevant.

 

[Kronblom]

Along those lines, I was shocked to hear today that the World Hockey Championships will be played in Canada for the first time ever next year. I couldn't really believe it.

I was chocked, well almost, when I saw that Canada applied to host the World Championships. They were supposed to host the 1970 World Championships (Montreal & Winnipeg) but backed out when they weren´t allowed to use their NHL-pros, instead Stockholm hosted the games as they did the year before. Canada didn´t participate in the World Championships between 1970 and 1977 and has never applied to host the games until now.

The reason behind not allowing pros was becuse they and everybody who played against them would be excluded from the Olympics, which was at that time strictly for amateurs. The IIHF decided though that the pros were eligible to play at the 1976 World Championships and later that year Canada Cup was played for the 1st time.

 

[Zine]

I respect that the "World" Championships are important in Europe, if for no other reason that the best Euro players are in the NHL, and this gives Europeans a chance to see them play at home.

To be fair though, it really should be renamed the European Championships. Played in Europe, European rules, European sized rinks, doesn't sound like a very international tournament.

In my opinion Canada and the US should pull out of the tournament. Basically none of the NA Olympic level players attend, so you can't even say it helps develop our national teams. I don't see too many other team sports holding a World tournament every year, and if North Amercians don't take it seriously they shouldn't participate.

The IIHF needs to reform itself. The majority of the Olympic players are from the NHL, and they really should be playing those tournaments by NHL rules. The current system favours the Europeans, and they no longer need that crutch.

So, basically, along the lines of the garbage the United States spews out about the UN

 

[Ola]

Do Europeans care that they're essentially watching everyone's (and I mean everyone, not just Canada) "B" or "C" team, or worse? I mean, so many players are still in the NHL playoffs, hurt, or just plain skip the thing now. Or is it that the event is now bigger than who's playing, sort of like what the World Junior Tournament has become here?

Its your "flag" on the chest of the jersey. The conditions are the same, if Sweden play Finland we care, even if its in chess.

Nah, seriously, the general feeling here in Sweden is that not many really cares.

In the WC of soccer, or the Olympics, its win or die. The WCH is more like the American Idol. Its fun, you cheer for someone, the WCH is a two week event if Sweden loose I won't loose much sleep.

The hockey is great. The best of 1 games is really exciting, all good teams got a shot until thursday, on sunday they hand out the gold medal.

That feeling obviously aren't there in NA. Its like national team play is a tool used to once and for all decide which country is best, preferably like every 4th year. Here its entertainment. If you win you are dooing something right. Lately Canada, the Czech and Sweden have won every gold except 3 since 1991, so its not a easy tournament to win. No country have won on home ice since 1986. There is allot of pressure.

If you likes the game of hockey, and your team is eliminated from the SC PO's, sit down and watch the WCH. Its very entertaining.

 

[Ola]

I respect that the "World" Championships are important in Europe, if for no other reason that the best Euro players are in the NHL, and this gives Europeans a chance to see them play at home.

To be fair though, it really should be renamed the European Championships. Played in Europe, European rules, European sized rinks, doesn't sound like a very international tournament.

In my opinion Canada and the US should pull out of the tournament. Basically none of the NA Olympic level players attend, so you can't even say it helps develop our national teams. I don't see too many other team sports holding a World tournament every year, and if North Amercians don't take it seriously they shouldn't participate.

The IIHF needs to reform itself. The majority of the Olympic players are from the NHL, and they really should be playing those tournaments by NHL rules. The current system favours the Europeans, and they no longer need that crutch.

Sorry mr. K, but seriously, do you get how funny this post is?

The IIHF stands for International Ice Hockey Federation, where Canada got as much to say about things as Sweden or Russia.

If Canada got all the say, 100%, it should be named World Cup, but if all countrys got equal say, it can't be called World Championships, do I get your point?

The IIHF would use the NHL rules, or change to NHL rules if they thought they was the best. It took Buttman 9 years to remove the redline after it was obvious that it was destroying the game, with the redline out, whats the diffrence, touch icing?

I am not sure if NHL rink sizes are illigal under IIHF rules, the WJC in Winnipeg was played on a small ice. The thing is that all rinks in the world outside the NHL got a big ice, quite the project to force all arenas to be rebuild for WCH's and Olympics just to suit the NHLers. Especially when its up for debate what size is the best.

What I'd really like to see is a truly international tournament, where games are played in both continents and home rules apply (ie NHL or "International"). Probably will never happen, but wouldn't it be great!

I don't think there is much need for that now, watch USA for example right now in the WCH. They are playing darn smart hockey. Without the redline in the NHL NA players will handle IIHF rules just as well as European players, and European players handles NHL rules just as well as NHL players. The big diffrence was obviously the redline offside rule.

It won't be like in the past where Sweden had a advantage over Canada since they handled the game without a redline better.

 

[littleD]

Is the WC going to get decent attendance when it's in Canada next year?

 

[Jazz]

I was chocked, well almost, when I saw that Canada applied to host the World Championships. They were supposed to host the 1970 World Championships (Montreal & Winnipeg) but backed out when they weren´t allowed to use their NHL-pros, instead Stockholm hosted the games as they did the year before. Canada didn´t participate in the World Championships between 1970 and 1977 and has never applied to host the games until now.

The reason behind not allowing pros was becuse they and everybody who played against them would be excluded from the Olympics, which was at that time strictly for amateurs. The IIHF decided though that the pros were eligible to play at the 1976 World Championships and later that year Canada Cup was played for the 1st time.

Just to further clarify - Canada or the US were not allowed to host the World Championships after 1976.

....The long, tenacious negotiations between Dr. Sabetzki and the top officials of the professional ice hockey resulted in a solution which was satisfactory for both parties: the Canadians and the Americans were allowed to enhance their world championship teams with professional players; in order to be able to achieve that most effectively, the world championships should in future take place as late as possible thus ensuring that a suitable player selection from among the NHL teams eliminated from the Stanley Cup would be available. In their turn, the Canadians and Americans undertook to participate regularly in the world championships. In addition, they relinquished their application to host any world championship tournaments. In return, a competition for the "Canada Cup" should be played every four years on North American territory with the participation of Canada, the United States and the four strongest European national teams according to the last preceding world championship with the understanding that all the teams would be allowed to use their NHL professional players.......

source: http://www.iihf.com/iihf/history/1975.htm

 

[Kronblom]

Just to further clarify - Canada or the US were not allowed to host the World Championships after 1976.

source: http://www.iihf.com/iihf/history/1975.htm

Thank you for the clarification, I did not know that. Do know what year they changed that, I reckon it happened after René Fasel took over the IIHF in 1994?

http://www.iihf.com/iihf/organisation/popup/fasel.htm

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

So, basically, along the lines of the garbage the United States spews out about the UN

The UN seems to have forgotten the notion of one person one vote. Why is it again that France has as much voting power as China, why does Finland get the same number of votes as Sweden? Global governance based on nations, not people, is undemocratic.

The same is basically true of the IIHF. Giving the 100 hockey players in Turkey the same representation as the thousands in Russia is wrong. Why couldn't the IIHF use the NHL rulebook for tournaments involving professionals, especially those played in NA? Is it fair to play every tournament based on Euro rules?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The IIHF stands for International Ice Hockey Federation, where Canada got as much to say about things as Sweden or Russia.

If Canada got all the say, 100%, it should be named World Cup, but if all countrys got equal say, it can't be called World Championships, do I get your point?

I am not sure if NHL rink sizes are illigal under IIHF rules, the WJC in Winnipeg was played on a small ice. The thing is that all rinks in the world outside the NHL got a big ice, quite the project to force all arenas to be rebuild for WCH's and Olympics just to suit the NHLers. Especially when its up for debate what size is the best.

Oola,
I'm glad I made you laugh. I kind of get a chuckle out of how the majority of hockey players and fans are in NA, yet they are represented by 2 votes out of something like 60 in the IIHF. Do you not realzie it would be more fair if at least some of the IIHF tournaments were played by NA rules?

Btw, it's a lot easier to turn a Euro rink into an NA rink than the other way round.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Canada and the US have the deepest pools of hockey talent in the world. But deepest doesn't mean the only pools. There are some hockey talents in other places (like Örnsköldsvik) that have some talent.

Any one of the Big 7 nations are capable of winning Olympic gold. All you need is a good goalie, 3 forward lines and 4 Dmen, and you got a shot. That's what makes the Olympics so great. Per-capita Örnsköldsvik is the greatest source of hockey talent in the world.

I think playing the World Championships in Canada is a mistake. For the most part Canadians don't care about the tournament. By playing it in NA, Europeans are losing their one chance to see their stars play at home. Why not just call it the European Championships, and leave it over there were it belongs?

 

[Vladiator]

Why not just call it the European Championships, and leave it over there were it belongs?

Well, why don't you approach Hockey Canada with this proposal? I mean, IIHF won't be the one initiating Canada's expulsion from WCs. The "misguided" Hockey Canada also seem to be happy to send a team there every year. Someone has to take matters into their own hands...