Why So Many Support the Owners

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Sinurgy, Dec 14, 2004.

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  1. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy Rebuilding

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    I know there are several people who do support the NHLPA and have made some good points but the overwhelming majority from what I've seen are behind the owners. Here is why I think that is the case. In a nutshell the owners want to fix the league and make hockey better, the players don't seem to care about the league at all.

    Now I understand the owners don't really care about hockey itself, they just care about fixing the current situation so it will result in a better product which in turn will line their pockets. That is hardly a noble cause but to a fan the end result is still the same, the game will be in much better shape if the owners get their way. As a fan, that is what I care about, I care about the game getting better. The players on the other hand don't seem too concerned about the product they are putting on the ice, they seem only concerned about their money. I would expect that type of "who cares about hockey" attitude from owners but to see it coming from the players is pretty disappointing. Perhaps my mistake is placing players on a pedastal and expecting more of them. Turns out they are just as greedy as the owners. So all things being equal I might as well side with the plan that will help fix the NHL rather than hurt it.

    That is how I see it anyway. Thanks for listening. :)
     
  2. Wow. That's a stretch.

    The owners don't care about fixing the league and making hockey better.

    They've made hockey worse over the past decade. Both on the ice and off the ice.

    They care about the value of their franchise.
    Which, in most cases, is pretty darned good.
     
  3. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

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    All the owners will do by keeping the lockout going is hurt teams. Sure when its all done (how ever many years that will be) it will be better for hockey..but at what cost...... :dunno:
     
  4. Lexicon Devil

    Lexicon Devil Registered User

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    :lol: :lol:

    wait....

    :lol :lol :joker:
     
  5. Son of Steinbrenner

    Son of Steinbrenner Registered User

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    This isn't about saving the league from either side. this is about money plain and simple. the owners can't control themselves so they expect the players to do it. Bettman and the owners have done a better job in the PR department. Thats the reason people support the owners.
     
  6. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    Great post, Sinurgy. You hit the nail on the head. If the league gets its way, rich owners or not, the game will be better off because of it. A hell of a lot better than the alternatives (current situation or NHLPA proposal), anyway.

    The players could care less about the fans, the teams, the league, or most disappointingly of all, the Cup. You can argue the owners don't care either, but their way paints a much brighter picture.
     
  7. The Frugal Gourmet

    The Frugal Gourmet Registered User

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    I think both the players and owners are totally justified in their respective stances, but I think the owners are currently in the stronger bargaining position.
     
  8. Son of Steinbrenner

    Son of Steinbrenner Registered User

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    how? an impasse is impossible after what the league offered last week.


    sometimes band aids cure the wound.
     
  9. Chileiceman

    Chileiceman Registered User

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    I totally agree with the owners. Even though both sides are looking for money, at least I can undurstand the owners needs since they are LOOSING money rather than making it. but I just don't see how any athlete can make millions of dollars (For just playing a game and having fun) ,more than most people make in their entire lives, and then not accept a small decrease in their salary, and yet they go to play in Europe and make LESS money than they would accepting a salary cap.
     
  10. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    How is an impasse (the owners' very last resort) impossible? Like Buffaloed said, it's probably closer than ever.
     
  11. sabresfan65

    sabresfan65 Vegas HAS Hockey!!

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    I'm sick of hearing about how the owners can't control themselves. It all comes down to 5 or 6 owners who have the money driving up the prices for every other player in the league. Team A signs player A for 10 million, Team B signs player B for 10 million, Team C either has to sign player C for 10 million or lose him. Team C can control himself, Team A and B make it impossible for Team C to compete on an equal footing. I wouldn't expect someone who calls themselves "Son of Steinbrenner" to understand this though.

    If you really are the "Son of Steinbrenner", I really hate what your father has done to MLB as well. Thanks for sponsoring the boards though. ;)
     
  12. Jaded-Fan

    Jaded-Fan Registered User

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    Great post . . . though some seem to have missed your point entirely judging by their responses. Neither the owners or the players give a rat's ass about the fans except tangentially. At the very least the game and the fans is down the list for each, far behind grabbing as much money as they can. I have no delusions to the contrary. However in this case, as you rightly stated, the game overall would be healthier with competitve balance legislated in much like football has. No, not better in Colorado, Detroit, Toronto perhaps but overall in the league much much better. Even ironically enough in places like Colorado, Detroit, Toronto it would be better long term as the sport grows overall.

    So in this case it is a no brainer. Both sides are greedy son of a *****es, it is just that in this case one of the greedy son of a *****es is going in a direction that I want to go, a better game.
     
  13. nikrag03*

    nikrag03* Guest

    **** the players
     
  14. chriss_co

    chriss_co Registered User

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    Yes, both sides care about money BUT the big difference is that for the league (and the owners) to sustain and increase revenues, the game needs to be improved.

    On the other hand, the PA doesn't need a healthy game to make money for the players (as you can see from the last 5-7 years)

    However, the flaw I see in the PA's vision (and will undermine their negotiation position) is that they are an association for the richest players in the game and not for the large percentage making less than a certain amount. In this case, the association (while losing total revenue) would not lose money per sake from top end players IF teams were to fold. In the end, its the bottom end players who lose out if teams start to fold. That is why the PA doesn't negotiate on the basis for a healthy game. But this should (in theory) undermine the association if a large proportion of the players decide to abandon the association. However, Goodenow has thus far done an excellent job of reigning in all the lose ends.
     
  15. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    I think blame for the league's current financial situation rests almost entirely with the owners. I can't fault the players one iota for taking the money that's been offered over the past five years.
    That said, I blame the players for refusing to look at the state of their sport realistically. NHL revenues are a fraction of what the other major sports earn (and, frankly, I'm not sure one can call hockey a major sport anymore) yet the players seem to believe their salaries should be equal or close to those in other sports. Four NHL teams last year outspent the Denver Broncos and three other NFL teams. Does anyone believe for a second their revenues were even close to what the Broncos earn? Nine teams outspent the Chicago Bulls. Again, I'd bet my house their revenues aren't close. The NHL can't survive spending an exorbinant, disproportionate amount of its revenue on player salaries.
    Is it fair that the owners are punishing the players for their own mistakes? Nope. But life isn't fair. The players have been overpaid for years and, like it or not, the market needs to be corrected. The sooner the players realize this, the sooner they get back to playing in the NHL.

    Lastly, this isn't about who cares for the game of hockey. I believe the players wouldn't be at the level they are if they didn't love the sport. And I believe the owners wouldn't have bought a professional hockey team - not exactly a super investment - if they didn't love the sport. Right now, however, both sides are putting their love of money ahead of their love of the game.
     
  16. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Team A - NY Rangers (of old),
    Team B - Philadelphia Flyers, Toronto Maple Leafs
    Team C - Tampa Bay Lightning, Stanley Cup Champions
     
  17. Hab-a-maniac

    Hab-a-maniac Registered User

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    The fact that most of the population is more likely to have known a hockey player at some point or another rather than a billionaire or multi-millionaire is one of the main reasons fans support the owners side. Like the saying goes, better the devil you know than the devil you don't. People are uneducated on what owners make, face and how they operate their team in cohesion with their businesses. Yet they see a player making 8mil that was handed out by an owner hungry for some star power, who doesn't want to have his job security jeopardized as well as make less money as a superstar than a profitable business can afford to give to a player. And they give scathing rants on how such players are ruining the game they love, corrupting and crushing the hopes and dreams of their kids and permanently scarring Canadian culture. Believe me, I've seen some of this kind of exaggerated venting.

    It's not necessarily the money that's the issue when players get certain contracts, it's the respect shown by the offer. Problem is, some stars get big money they deserve and comparable players demand the same. That's where it must stop; superstars make their big money but lessers can't use their figures to say, "Oh he makes 7 mil and I'm almost as good so give me 5mil." At that point, as an owner you say no and if the players and his agent hold out or ask for more, you remain firm. It happened to Byron Dafoe. He wanted 6mil and the Bruins said hell no, he held out for more, no one bothered and soon he was inactive and settled for 1.2M from the Thrashers and now his career is in the toilet.

    And in Canada, we like to rave and trumph these "kids" (just look at the junior level and the amount of suck-ups and compliments for the stars then they hit the NHL, make money, want some job security and their "greedy bastards") but then cut them down for being successful and rich beyond our wildest dreams. It's the Canadian way sometimes where we turn and fingerpoint at guys we used to admire and respect. If I were a player, I wouldn't know whether to respect the fans' opinion or discard it. And somehow, some folks out there believe replacement players would make a BETTER NHL simply because they "have a greater passion to play hockey and wouldn't get greedy, demanding millions!" You sure they wouldn't? Come on, everyone would be the same as the players. Some guys do great like defer salary so the team can afford a player that can help the team win. Some are cancers who are all about themselves and the big dough.
     
  18. nikrag03*

    nikrag03* Guest

    If i u want teh leafs and rangers to end up signing players like Chris Pronger while our good ole habs sign Chris Simon, then that's ur problem. If u want the habs to conitue to be mediocre for years then well..whatever makes u happy..
     
  19. Seachd

    Seachd Registered User

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    That's not how it works at all. We "cut them down" when they start playing to a level far below their salary, and make stupid comments, like "I couldn't feed my dog on that."
     
  20. Kings16

    Kings16 Registered User

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  21. Hockeyfan02

    Hockeyfan02 Registered User

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    I really dont see how either side can be supported when neither side is willing to find a median in the middle. Goodenhow wont accept a salary cap, Bettman wont accept a luxury tax. Doesnt sound like either is willing to make the NHL better. Sounds to me like both sides are trying to "win" this war rather than find a median in which both sides get what they want. I dont blame one side more than the other, I blame both for this mess.
     
  22. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy Rebuilding

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    Thanks Jaded-Fan. I'm glad a few were able to get my point. Geez I didn't think I was being so unclear but based on some of the "responses", I must surely be obtuse. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2004
  23. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    That's such a fallacy.
    Yes, the Lightning caught lightning in a bottle and won the Cup. Care to wager their chances of doing it again anytime soon?
    Under the structure as it exists, a surprise team can and will catch fire and make a run, bit that's the exception to the rule.
    Of the 16 playoff teams last year, only four were in the bottom half of the league in payroll.
    The previous year, five of 16 playoff teams were in the lower half of payroll. Only two of those teams - Tampa and Ottawa - made the playoffs the next year.
    In 2002, only four of 16 were in the bottom half of payroll. Two of those teams haven't made the playoffs since.
    Starting the notice a pattern here?
    While low payroll teams can sneak in once in a while and make some noise, the consistently good, contending teams - with the exception of Ottawa and perhaps Tampa in the future - are the ones that spend the most.
     
  24. Kings16

    Kings16 Registered User

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    Don't even start with that kind of garbage analogy.

    Why do you think Pheonix had to unload Khabiboulin to Tampa?! Think it had anything to do with his contract demands? Just maybe?!

    And don't forget that Tampa foolishly gave Brad Richards a huge pay raise that angered many other teams with similar restricted free agents who then pointed to his contract as a basis for comparison.
     
  25. sabresfan65

    sabresfan65 Vegas HAS Hockey!!

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    Let's see what the Lightning look like in 3 years under the current system!
     
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