Why retooling is the best option for the Habs

[NotProkofievian]

As long as Carey Price is around can't see the Habs rebuilding

I don't think Carey Price can do very much to impede a rebuild. The idea that he has willed us to 100pt seasons is a total fiction. With Tampa, Toronto, and Boston now solidified as the powers that be in our division, we're essentially just waiting for Buffalo and Florida to permanently surpass us. Fact is we beat up on a division that was in large part rebuilding during those years. Take a look at our record against the western conference since Carey Price has activated ''god mode.'' It's not great.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

The team has a very young group of forwards and pretty good depth at wing. There are big holes in the line-up at LHD, C and maybe at G. Avoid long contracts to older players, don't give up futures and keep drafting and acquiring extra picks when possible. This team needs a serious influx of skilled players, but that will take time. If I'm Molson I'm telling fans to brace themselves for another long season or two...

Which should directly lead to Bergevin's firing and a clean-up of hockey operations. Go back to the off-season of 2014 and there is absolutely no reason for this team to be faced with a long couple of years instead of a contender. Instead we got two basement finishes and a pathetic 1st round loss in 3 out of 4 seasons.

 

[beowulf]

This is now all on Molson..................this is exactly the reason, we need a real hockey guy as President of hockey operations...
There have been sooooooooo many bad decisions made by MB and Molson. I would think Molson's board of directors, are not amused.

Why would the Molson board of directors care? The team is owned by the three Molson brothers and a consortium that includes BCE, Woodbridge, Quebec Solidarity Fund, Michael Andlauer, Luc Bertrand and the National Bank Financial Group. Molson the beer company is not an owner unless I missed something.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Why would the Molson board of directors care? The team is owned by the three Molson brothers and a consortium that includes BCE, Woodbridge, Quebec Solidarity Fund, Michael Andlauer, Luc Bertrand and the National Bank Financial Group. Molson the beer company is not an owner unless I missed something.

You didn't. I think a few people on this board have it right when they say that Molson just doesn't want to pay for 2 front offices, 3 coaches, and 2 sets of assistants to likely rebuild anyways.

They don't give a f*** about the on ice performance.

 

[justafan22]

As long as Carey Price is around can't see the Habs rebuilding

He played about 55% of the games this year and they finished 4th last.

 

[Censored Toad]

Burn it to the ground. This team needs a total rebuild.

It pains me to say it, but ya burn it all down and salt the earth so weeds like Marc can never grow again.

 

[Masao]

Burn it to the ground. This team needs a total rebuild.

It pains me to say it, but ya burn it all down and salt the earth so weeds like Marc can never grow again.

The team needed a total rebuild back in 2000. But it never happened. I feel like this team basically wasted two decades.

 

[brian70]

Montreal has talent. Once you add a top center and a top 3-4 defenseman, you end up with a more than decent team.

Pacioretty, Drouin, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Hudon, Byron, Scherbak are good enough to play top 6 on the wing. Galchenyuk is able to play top center as he’s proved in the past. Danault and De La Rose are perfect for 3rd line duties. You got a bundle of guys to provide a strong bottom 6.

While the talk is very much around John Tavares, I think Bergevin should pursue John Carlson. With this addition, that defense becomes more potent, especially if you can reunite Alzner with Carlson, with Reilly-Weber on top and Petry-Mete at the bottom. With Price in top shape, both mentally and physically, this defense should be very solid while providing enough offense.

If management believe that one of Poehling/Evans could fill 2nd center postion in a couple years, then an aging center like Stastny or even Koivu should be ok for the transition. Otherwise, RNH as far as I’m concerned should remain the main target. Only problem is Edmonton is still looking for defensemen.

When you look at the Golden Knights roster, you have to believe that Habs’ main problem on the ice is one of structure. A new defensive coach would certainly help.

Best-case scenario would be Carlson, RNH and a top 5 pick, apart from Tavares and Dahlin. But more importantly, a better system or coaching.

 

[habsgirl5000]

I don't think Carey Price can do very much to impede a rebuild. The idea that he has willed us to 100pt seasons is a total fiction. With Tampa, Toronto, and Boston now solidified as the powers that be in our division, we're essentially just waiting for Buffalo and Florida to permanently surpass us. Fact is we beat up on a division that was in large part rebuilding during those years. Take a look at our record against the western conference since Carey Price has activated ''god mode.'' It's not great.

other teams have got better, while we are stuck in the mud spinning our tires,

as odd as it may seem or sound, carey price might be the one to trigger a rebuild for us, if he can not improve his play,

in any case, you don't, and can not fix a team that finished bottom 5 in one single off season.....even a great gm can not do that, and we had mb, so enough said

 

[habsgirl5000]

While the talk is very much around John Tavares, I think Bergevin should pursue John Carlson

mb shouldn't be pursuing either of them....he should be pursuing draft picks....and thats all

 

[Censored Toad]

mb shouldn't be pursuing either of them....he should be pursuing draft picks....and thats all

Rather then doing that, he is pursuing the latest sales on designer purple pants at RW&CO, Le Chateau and Boutique 1861 all the while "working the phones really hard" and trolling the bargin bin for cast offs.......

 

[lo striver]

You didn't. I think a few people on this board have it right when they say that Molson just doesn't want to pay for 2 front offices, 3 coaches, and 2 sets of assistants to likely rebuild anyways.

They don't give a **** about the on ice performance.

Pretty sure that why the foxholes has not been cleared yet and will not be cleared for a while. There is just too much money to throw away.

 

[brian70]

mb shouldn't be pursuing either of them....he should be pursuing draft picks....and thats all

He won’t be contented with just picks. Not with Price and Weber on the team. It would be foolish to rebuild with a top goalie and a top defenseman in their 30’s.

 

[WinterLion]

You have to try really hard to distort what I was saying to get this... nice job.

Isn't that what you said? I'm sorry. That's what I got. What was your actual point? I'm sorry if I blurred it... I was just surprised!!

 

[Laurentide]

He won’t be contented with just picks. Not with Price and Weber on the team. It would be foolish to rebuild with a top goalie and a top defenseman in their 30’s.

It would also be foolish for a GM on a short leash trying to keep his job to be content with draft picks who won't become anything until long after he's been fired. Bergevin doesn't just want to win now he needs to win now. If he doesn't sign a bunch of free agents this summer just to prove how hands-on he is people will lose their minds. The Habs may need to rebuild but most fans aren't as hard-core or as knowledgeable as the people who post on message boards like this. They want to see action, any type of action, and they judge their GM's performance by the moves he makes, not by the one's he avoids making. Action of any sort is always perceived as better than inaction because it means you're "doing something". Often, the best course of action is to do nothing and in Bergevin's case it could be argued that he shouldn't do anything because all he ever does is make things worse. But the braying masses and the season ticket holders are going to demand that players be signed and money always wins so expect to see a lot of head-scratching deals get done. When it's all over the pundits may disagree as to whether Bergevin did the right things or whether he did enough but they will all agree that no other GM in the league was more "active" during the off-season.

 

[WinterLion]

The Cup window should have been fine 2 years ago:

Pacioretty - Galchenyuk - Gallagher
X - Plekanec/Eller - X
Byron - Eller/Plekanec/Danault - Andrighetto
X/Mitchell - Danault - X
Possible X players: Radulov, Hudon, Lehkonen, DLR (4th line though), UFAs/trades

Markov - Subban
Emelin - Petry
X - Pateryn
Possible X players: Sergachev, Mete, UFAs

Price, Montoya, Lindgren

That team had much less holes and had a stronger center line. You could have groomed Sergachev with the help of General Markov. With hindsight, Galchenyuk had a strong start with Radulov and Pacioretty. Now we're stucked with many bad players on bad contracts.

I still think that team sucks. Also more importantly, unless Cary Price learns how to stop pucks... we are completely crap.

 

[WinterLion]

Which should directly lead to Bergevin's firing and a clean-up of hockey operations. Go back to the off-season of 2014 and there is absolutely no reason for this team to be faced with a long couple of years instead of a contender. Instead we got two basement finishes and a pathetic 1st round loss in 3 out of 4 seasons.

You really think this team was a contender? Have you looked at the Winnipeg Jets or Nashville or others? The Habs were (and still are) missing a huge influx of good young players... That team might have been better, but it was not a serious contender.

 

[habsgirl5000]

He won’t be contented with just picks. Not with Price and Weber on the team. It would be foolish to rebuild with a top goalie and a top defenseman in their 30’s.

why not?

both price and weber played great last year for a team who wants to rebuild

it's time to move on from price, and its time for price to move on.....what a waste of a career,

at this point price is reminding me of somebody like andrew raycroft....only difference is price had one good year

 

[Spring in Fialta]

You really think this team was a contender? Have you looked at the Winnipeg Jets or Nashville or others? The Habs were (and still are) missing a huge influx of good young players... That team might have been better, but it was not a serious contender.

The team in 2014 was very much on the brink of being a contender, if not one already. There's no doubt about it. They were 2 games away from the finals without Carey Price, had various elite pieces and a potential no.1 center in the wings. I don't even think there's a credible argument that the team wasn't there. Management blew it in spectacular fashion.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Honestly, anyone who justifies this current situation as a natural course can't possibly have any grievances with essentially 99% of management groups across the NHL in the modern era? Bergevin definitely belongs in the Houle category. They've just made different types of mistakes, but they were just as destructive.

 

[brian70]

It would also be foolish for a GM on a short leash trying to keep his job to be content with draft picks who won't become anything until long after he's been fired. Bergevin doesn't just want to win now he needs to win now. If he doesn't sign a bunch of free agents this summer just to prove how hands-on he is people will lose their minds. The Habs may need to rebuild but most fans aren't as hard-core or as knowledgeable as the people who post on message boards like this. They want to see action, any type of action, and they judge their GM's performance by the moves he makes, not by the one's he avoids making. Action of any sort is always perceived as better than inaction because it means you're "doing something". Often, the best course of action is to do nothing and in Bergevin's case it could be argued that he shouldn't do anything because all he ever does is make things worse. But the braying masses and the season ticket holders are going to demand that players be signed and money always wins so expect to see a lot of head-scratching deals get done. When it's all over the pundits may disagree as to whether Bergevin did the right things or whether he did enough but they will all agree that no other GM in the league was more "active" during the off-season.

I think Bergevin screws up more often by doing nothing which he justifies so often. Failing to sign both Markov and Radulov, for instance, was a major blunder.

But you’re right, he has to win now. But if a new GM would come in, he too couldn’t afford to rebuild without trading Weber and Price. And honestly, why would he do that? Fans are very critical of their team when they lose but there is no doubt in my mind that most GMs would be very happy to have both Price and Weber on their roster.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

why not?

both price and weber played great last year for a team who wants to rebuild

it's time to move on from price, and its time for price to move on.....what a waste of a career,

at this point price is reminding me of somebody like andrew raycroft....only difference is price had one good year

Comparing Carey Price and Andrew Raycroft is openly claiming you've become a Habs fan this season.

 

[badbrains]

Retool is just a euphemism for "it's not that bad, we can fix it."

No. No they cannot. It is that bad. This front office group can't fix this. They took a good team and ruined it, now they're to be trusted to clean up their own mess here? BS.

Until a real President is in place who's willing to do what it takes to win, not what it takes to keep his buddies happy and employed, this team will not get better. If Molson gave a poop about winning he'd fire everyone, replace himself with a qualified President of hockey ops, open his wallet and poach the best hockey people from other teams, no expenses spared.

Until that happens I have zero optimism going forward.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

The team in 2014 was very much on the brink of being a contender, if not one already. There's no doubt about it. They were 2 games away from the finals without Carey Price, had various elite pieces and a potential no.1 center in the wings. I don't even think there's a credible argument that the team wasn't there. Management blew it in spectacular fashion.

Depends how you define contender. If we were a contender then, why weren't we in 2015 as well? Very little changed. Galchenyuk wasn't playing center in 2014 either.

2016 we sucked due to Price injury, many said this proved we weren't an elite team and Price was the reason for our success.

2017 we had traded Subban for Weber, added Radulov.

PTS

2014: 100
2015: 110
2016: 78(Price injury year)
2017: 103

I feel as though 2017 was just as much a pretender as 2014 or 2015 really.

Look at a team like Ottawa who reached conference finals one year and bottom feed the next. It means A) parity(but lets not worry about this right now) and more importantly B) They are pretenders, just like we were.

A true contender isn't bouncing in and out of the playoffs IMO. Specifically, from playoff team to lottery team. That is sign of a pretender. One injury and we cave, whether it's Subban, Weber or whoever, we cave.

 

[Laurentide]

why not?

both price and weber played great last year for a team who wants to rebuild

it's time to move on from price, and its time for price to move on.....what a waste of a career,

at this point price is reminding me of somebody like andrew raycroft....only difference is price had one good year

Actually, it's time for you to move on from your narrative about Price and Weber because neither of them are going anywhere, especially Price now that he has an untradeable contract and an almost superfluous no-movement clause. Price and the Habs are married to each other for the full tenure of that contract so you'd best get used to it.