Why Pro Athletes Make so much Money

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BwayBshirt

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ResidentAlien said:
Get real. Cops, Teachers, Dental Assitants ( although some are hot) dont, wont, will not get paid what a pro athlete does or a pop/film star does. THATS LIFE.
It would be nice if they did, but they dont and I dont understand why people keep comparing this to that, IT makes no sense at all. The pin hole to get to that level, beit Hockey, BBall, Film, Music whatever, is so small I say let them get what they can.
Cops dont spend their whole life trying to be a cop.
Teachers dont spend their whole life trying to be a teacher.
Dental Assistants go to school ( higher Ed) for what 2 years?

Im glad every day we have the kind of people that decide to be in law enforcement, military, teaching etc. and i wish we paid them more, but we dont.
How many of those that are teachers, cops etc begrudge the "stars" for making more then they do..very few Id say.
The Stars get paid what they do because they supply what only a select few can, escapism for the rest of us bums. Im glad they do, it has given me many memories in the last 40 + years, with my Dad, and with my kids now.
This doesnt mean I think a correction isnt needed in the NHL, cuz it does, but please..this arguement based on other professions payscale is not realisitic.

umm...my sentiments exactly lol :innocent:

p.s. - didn't see your post because i was temporarily disconnected
 

nyr7andcounting

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First off prices for any labor anywhere is based on supply and demand. If supply is low, which is it as far as NHL players, than prices for those players are going to be high.

Secondly, I would say the best way to measure the worth of workers in a particular industry would be the average marginal revenue they produce. Without the players, the NHL is going to have $0 in revenue. I don't want to say they are the product, but they are close to it.

With that said, and as someone said before, the average revenue produced per NHL player is somewhere in the range of $2.8M-$3M...based on $2.1B in revenues. You can argue there are others who contribute to that revenue(announcers, TV production etc.) but their salaries are also way lower than the average player so their affect is somewhat offset. So, if the average player produces $3M in revenue it can actually be argued that he is underpaid at $1.8M.

In the real world owners would pay the average player up to $2,999,999M, because they would still produce more than they cost. But obviously in pro sports there are enormous operating costs in order for the player to produce that revenue, but even with that in mind I would still say the average NHL player is probably worth around $1.3M-$1.8M.

Throw on top of that the fact that players are in a ridiculously unstable and competative industry and their careers are on average about 1/8th as long as the normal worker...they take a huge risk being a pro hockey player...there is NO WAY that players are overpaid in terms of value, even at a $1.8M average.
 

ResidentAlien*

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MyCaptain11 said:
umm...my sentiments exactly lol :innocent:

p.s. - didn't see your post because i was temporarily disconnected
Hate it when that happens
:)
 

Hoek

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I don't have much of a problem with pro athletes making so much money. That's just the nature of the beast. We as fans pay for it so obviously as much as we like to complain and compare them to other more worthwhile professions it's clearly what we value most with our bucks.

At least when I say an NHLer is overpaid, I'm more thinking about the fact that he receives near-elite level NFL money in a sport that doesn't bring anywhere near the same amount of TV ratings or revenue. The NHL is #4 or lower and they need to be paid that way. MLS players get by on a lot less and you don't see them griping about it. The highest paid player ever in that league was Cobi Jones at a whopping $1 million a year I believe and his price has dropped since. Or maybe he was seeking $1 million and didn't get it, I forget. Anyway we're talking a completely different scale, one that the NHL likely needs to be brought down closer to compared to chasing after the $10+ million a year of their far more successful counterparts, otherwise we're going to see a repeat of the NASL. Basically the average NHL guys should make roughly over a million or so, I have no qualms with that, but the elite players need to settle for smaller jackpots than they've been hitting lately.
 
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Lobstertainment

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ResidentAlien said:
Get real. Cops, Teachers, Dental Assitants ( although some are hot) dont, wont, will not get paid what a pro athlete does or a pop/film star does. THATS LIFE.
It would be nice if they did, but they dont and I dont understand why people keep comparing this to that, IT makes no sense at all. The pin hole to get to that level, beit Hockey, BBall, Film, Music whatever, is so small I say let them get what they can.
Cops dont spend their whole life trying to be a cop.
Teachers dont spend their whole life trying to be a teacher.
Dental Assistants go to school ( higher Ed) for what 2 years?

Im glad every day we have the kind of people that decide to be in law enforcement, military, teaching etc. and i wish we paid them more, but we dont.
How many of those that are teachers, cops etc begrudge the "stars" for making more then they do..very few Id say.
The Stars get paid what they do because they supply what only a select few can, escapism for the rest of us bums. Im glad they do, it has given me many memories in the last 40 + years, with my Dad, and with my kids now.
This doesnt mean I think a correction isnt needed in the NHL, cuz it does, but please..this arguement based on other professions payscale is not realisitic.


You make it sound like someone can take an overnight course and become a teacher.

Yes hockey's pinhole is what you described and I agree, but your examples are lacking, it's no cake walk to become a teacher and in fact they do have to study for years to become one, it is hard dedicated work.

which is why so many are *****y.
 

RandV

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Actually, I think profesional athletes can be compared to teachers, cops, military, etc. To put it simply, entertainment business, supply and demand, and all that aside, NHL and other big league players get payed what they do because they're the best in the world at what they do. You're average teacher compares more to say your average ECHL'er. An NHL player, is a university prof with tenure (I think it's called?), a four star general sitting in the pentagon, a chief of police in a major city, etc. Take nearly any profesion, look at the top of the food chain, and you''re looking at a lot of money. Now, the best pro-sports star may make more than these other guys, but they have a shorter window of opportunity to make it.
 

Levitate

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You don't think the lives Firemen and Police officers save account for up to multi-bilions of dollars of revenue over time?

You don't think all those kids teachers teach amount to muti-TRILLIONS of dollars of revenue?




Plus, all are paid by the Federal and State US Governments, which last time I checked pulled in just a bit more cash than Stan Kronke.......

Ah but now we're talking indirect revenues and the such...with that logic practically anyone could say they should get paid huge amounts of money because whatever you're doing, in some way it helps enable a larger industry to make money.

Sports are a tad different in that respect.
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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Athletes are GROSSLY over-paid for what they provide to society. They no longer pocess many of the positive qualities that made them quality role models for people. The majority of the ones that make the news do so for being insolent jerks or criminals. If it weren't for trash talking they wouldn't have much to say at all. When athletes start providing the same level of service to society that police, fire and medical professionals do I'll believe they are worthy of their salaries. When we see honorariums like this I will believe they are worthy.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/10/rcmp-memorial050310.html
 

triggrman

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pro athletes are the best at their profession in the world. When you are the best at your position you command top dollar in almost every profession. If you are the best landscapper you can make $5M a year, the best salesman 50M, etc. Take the profession you are in now, if you were the best in the world at your job, how much would you make?
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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triggrman said:
pro athletes are the best at their profession in the world. When you are the best at your position you command top dollar in almost every profession. If you are the best landscapper you can make $5M a year, the best salesman 50M, etc. Take the profession you are in now, if you were the best in the world at your job, how much would you make?

That's a terrible example. No landscaper makes $5 million a year... without owning his own business. At that point the landscaper is assuming a great deal of risk and has expenditures that he has to make to keep his business a float. He also employs hundreds of workers to make that kind of coin. The risks are substantially different. The salesman is making that money based on what he can sell above and beyond what the company would normally make. Again, a bad example.

I know many teachers, policemen and firemen and they have ZERO hope of making the type of money you suggest. They all hope for a huge payoff (in the neighborhood of a couple hundred grand in a pension plan) when they retire after 20 years service. None of these people have an opportunity to make a million dollars a year. Most of them will be lucky to EVER come close to a six figure salary. The best professors at some of the top institutions in the world won't make in their life times what a professional athlete does in a year. Cops and firemen will, if they are the chief, have to work years to make a million dollars. Not many people get a chance to make the type of money you suggest, even the absolute best. Professional athletes are massively over-paid for what they give back to society IMO.
 

ResidentAlien*

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SSJTOM said:
You make it sound like someone can take an overnight course and become a teacher.

Yes hockey's pinhole is what you described and I agree, but your examples are lacking, it's no cake walk to become a teacher and in fact they do have to study for years to become one, it is hard dedicated work.

which is why so many are *****y.
I never said it was a cake walk- but come on, it's four years to be a teacher and the criteria isnt that high. Pretty much anyone with half a brain and money to go to higher ed, can become one.
You make is sound like I was bashing teachers, think again. It's hard work, you must be dedicated, yes but it's not quite the same.
 

ResidentAlien*

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The Iconoclast said:
Athletes are GROSSLY over-paid for what they provide to society. They no longer pocess many of the positive qualities that made them quality role models for people. The majority of the ones that make the news do so for being insolent jerks or criminals. If it weren't for trash talking they wouldn't have much to say at all. When athletes start providing the same level of service to society that police, fire and medical professionals do I'll believe they are worthy of their salaries. When we see honorariums like this I will believe they are worthy.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/03/10/rcmp-memorial050310.html
Then why do you watch sports? It must just drive you insane to see those people playing a game gettign paid millions of dollars. They provide something to society that is almost gutteral. escapism at its highest level( legally;)
They are paid what we pay them, they are paid that much because people will pay good money to watch them do what they wish they could.
Police, fire, medical professionals get what many feel is worth more then the almighty dollar,
Respect at it's highest level.
It's a totally silly arguement, it's just not the way the world works. Simple
 

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Why is it always the assertion of PA apologists that cap supporters want players making 5k a year again?

I don't think anyone minds players leaving the game financial set and rich, the problem is it's past the point where it's reasonable. What is the difference between 9 million a year and 8 million a year? What's wrong with an 1.3 million average and a 300k minimum?
 

Lanny MacDonald*

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ResidentAlien said:
Then why do you watch sports? It must just drive you insane to see those people playing a game gettign paid millions of dollars. They provide something to society that is almost gutteral. escapism at its highest level( legally;)
They are paid what we pay them, they are paid that much because people will pay good money to watch them do what they wish they could.
Police, fire, medical professionals get what many feel is worth more then the almighty dollar,
Respect at it's highest level.
It's a totally silly arguement, it's just not the way the world works. Simple

Maybe more and more people are taking the same jaded outlook I am and that's why professional sports is not doing as well as it once did. Teams are losing more money than they are making. The only way the sports can maintain the salaries they are is through the television contracts. The networks have been losing money on the contracts and its only a matter of time before those contracts start to go the way of hockey. Just because something happens does not make it right. Professional sports is a very sick industry, one that keeps getting more and more ill as it rolls along.
 

triggrman

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The Iconoclast said:
That's a terrible example. No landscaper makes $5 million a year... without owning his own business. At that point the landscaper is assuming a great deal of risk and has expenditures that he has to make to keep his business a float. He also employs hundreds of workers to make that kind of coin. The risks are substantially different. The salesman is making that money based on what he can sell above and beyond what the company would normally make. Again, a bad example.

I know many teachers, policemen and firemen and they have ZERO hope of making the type of money you suggest. They all hope for a huge payoff (in the neighborhood of a couple hundred grand in a pension plan) when they retire after 20 years service. None of these people have an opportunity to make a million dollars a year. Most of them will be lucky to EVER come close to a six figure salary. The best professors at some of the top institutions in the world won't make in their life times what a professional athlete does in a year. Cops and firemen will, if they are the chief, have to work years to make a million dollars. Not many people get a chance to make the type of money you suggest, even the absolute best. Professional athletes are massively over-paid for what they give back to society IMO.
I didn't say they didn't own their own business, of course they would, why would the best work for someone else? The top teachers aren't just professors for the most part either, most are writters or guest speakers, if you took the top 1% of those, I'd bet they're making 7 or 8 figures a year. I'll give you police (although private security could help my arguement). The top firefighters in the world design fire suppression systems, own fire protection companies, etc, they aren't just the guys ridding around on the trucks putting out fires.
 

c-carp

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The Iconoclast said:
That's a terrible example. No landscaper makes $5 million a year... without owning his own business. At that point the landscaper is assuming a great deal of risk and has expenditures that he has to make to keep his business a float. He also employs hundreds of workers to make that kind of coin. The risks are substantially different. The salesman is making that money based on what he can sell above and beyond what the company would normally make. Again, a bad example.

I know many teachers, policemen and firemen and they have ZERO hope of making the type of money you suggest. They all hope for a huge payoff (in the neighborhood of a couple hundred grand in a pension plan) when they retire after 20 years service. None of these people have an opportunity to make a million dollars a year. Most of them will be lucky to EVER come close to a six figure salary. The best professors at some of the top institutions in the world won't make in their life times what a professional athlete does in a year. Cops and firemen will, if they are the chief, have to work years to make a million dollars. Not many people get a chance to make the type of money you suggest, even the absolute best. Professional athletes are massively over-paid for what they give back to society IMO.
I see both his point and yours here Sure athletes are overpaid especialy compared to what they give society. But what you have to remember is that anyone who has a job that entertains people Actor, Musician, Athlete ect and you are the best at it you are going to make obsence money because people out here all need an escape from this sometimes ****** situation called life and we will pay top dollar to get it.
 

Drury_Sakic

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Most Pofs don't make a dime more than your standard teachers... FYI, its only the rare few that pull in the 100's of thousands..

And even them, the only reason they get hte money is because they work on outside research or crunch numbers for firm...
 

Kritter471

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http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...e/stories/041305dnspoblackistone.604acd9.html

A column from the Dallas Morning News, mostly dealing with football players and why he feels they deserve to get paid so much.

I'm not saying I agree with him, it just seems relevant to the discussion.

Selected quotes:
Al Lucas, who died playing football at 26, is why professional football players ought to hold out for every penny they can get, no matter how ridiculous it sounds for a guy to be paid several million dollars to play a kid's game from the sandlot. We may call pro football a game, but it is a dangerous choice of employment.

It can debilitate in the long run. It can paralyze in short fashion.

It can, as the Lucas tragedy reminded, even kill, maybe even instantly. All it takes is getting hit in the wrong place or in the wrong position.

and

That isn't to say that the hazards of one's employment should determine the remuneration, although it would seem fairer for armed servicemen and women in Iraq to reap more rewards for being there than Halliburton executives who are profiting from the war at their desks. But pro football players are worth whatever they can squeeze from the market.

In fact, they're worth more than their union has garnered for them historically from the league's owners. They're more worthy of guaranteed contracts, no matter how much of the scourge such arrangements have been on other leagues, than any other athletes. These guys literally put their necks on the line.

This time, with a tragic result.
 

norrisnick

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I didn't read the thread so sorry if it has been stated already.

Because we pay to watch. That's the reason.
 

discostu

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triggrman said:
I didn't say they didn't own their own business, of course they would, why would the best work for someone else? The top teachers aren't just professors for the most part either, most are writters or guest speakers, if you took the top 1% of those, I'd bet they're making 7 or 8 figures a year. I'll give you police (although private security could help my arguement). The top firefighters in the world design fire suppression systems, own fire protection companies, etc, they aren't just the guys ridding around on the trucks putting out fires.

Your analogy is so poor, my head hurts.

Let's break this down.

why would the best work for someone else
Why do NHL players work for someone else? Because being the best hockey player in the world, doesn't make you the best hockey team owner or administrator.

The top teachers aren't just professors for the most part either, most are writters or guest speakers,

The top academics in their respetive fields do that. It doesn't make them better actual teachers. For your analogy to be accurate, all of these academics should be able to walk into any high school classroom, and do a better job than every other teacher in their school, the same way an NHLer could walk into any beer league and dominate.

Teacher, and academic researcher who lectures for some courses are two very different jobs.

The top firefighters in the world design fire suppression systems, own fire protection companies, etc, they aren't just the guys ridding around on the trucks putting out fires.

What would make you think that fire protection company owners are the best fire fighters in the world? Obviously, most have fire fighting backgrounds (but not all) but the skill set that makes them most of their money is the ability to manage and operate a business, along with the financial risks they make to get them there. It's not firefighting that sets them apart.


The issue of how much a player should make is a contentious one, with many different arguements, but to try and argue that the proportion of millionaire hockey is in line with other industries such as teaching and firefighting is ridiculous.
 

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discostu said:
Your analogy is so poor, my head hurts.

Let's break this down.

why would the best work for someone else
Why do NHL players work for someone else? Because being the best hockey player in the world, doesn't make you the best hockey team owner or administrator.

The top teachers aren't just professors for the most part either, most are writters or guest speakers,

The top academics in their respetive fields do that. It doesn't make them better actual teachers. For your analogy to be accurate, all of these academics should be able to walk into any high school classroom, and do a better job than every other teacher in their school, the same way an NHLer could walk into any beer league and dominate.

Teacher, and academic researcher who lectures for some courses are two very different jobs.

The top firefighters in the world design fire suppression systems, own fire protection companies, etc, they aren't just the guys ridding around on the trucks putting out fires.

What would make you think that fire protection company owners are the best fire fighters in the world? Obviously, most have fire fighting backgrounds (but not all) but the skill set that makes them most of their money is the ability to manage and operate a business, along with the financial risks they make to get them there. It's not firefighting that sets them apart.


The issue of how much a player should make is a contentious one, with many different arguements, but to try and argue that the proportion of millionaire hockey is in line with other industries such as teaching and firefighting is ridiculous.
Those were exteme examples. So maybe I should have explained it like this.

MOST of the top professionals in the world make as much or more than the top athletes in the world.

How about that. Is that better?

You can nitpick anything, ie teachers v. academics.
 

triggrman

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Drury_Sakic said:
Most Pofs don't make a dime more than your standard teachers... FYI, its only the rare few that pull in the 100's of thousands..

And even them, the only reason they get hte money is because they work on outside research or crunch numbers for firm...


Exactly the rare few. The top, the best of the best.
 

discostu

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triggrman said:
You can nitpick anything, ie teachers v. academics.

It's not a nitpick, as they are completely different professions. The other professions aren't nitpicking either, as the ones that make big bucks have done so through the process of business ownership and management. They have made their money based on skills outside their field. It's like saying that hockey players earning potential has always been high after their playing career is done, as demonstrated by Tim Horton's ability to leverage his name into a coffee empire.

Pro athletes money comes from their skills as hockey players, nothing more. The earning ability of the average NHL player isn't greater than that of the average ECHL player due to business risks they took, their management skills, their people skills, etc. It's due to their ability to play hockey.

I'm not every arguing that they don't deserve the millions, but to claim that their industry is proportionate to others is just silly.
 

nyr7andcounting

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The Iconoclast said:
Athletes are GROSSLY over-paid for what they provide to society. They no longer pocess many of the positive qualities that made them quality role models for people. The majority of the ones that make the news do so for being insolent jerks or criminals. If it weren't for trash talking they wouldn't have much to say at all. When athletes start providing the same level of service to society that police, fire and medical professionals do I'll believe they are worthy of their salaries. When we see honorariums like this I will believe they are worthy.

Unfortunetly no one in this country is paid for what they provide to society...in fact some of the people who make the most money are the worst of the society.

NHL players are employees, they don't own anything, and a employees value is based on how much revenue he will produce for the company and how many other people there are that could do the same job as him. When it comes to pro athletes, or actors for example, the revenue they bring in from what they do is off the charts AND there aren't many people in the entire world that could do the same job...that is why athletes make so much and why they aren't overpaid, even at multi-million annual salaries.
 

discostu

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nyr7andcounting said:
Unfortunetly no one in this country is paid for what they provide to society...in fact some of the people who make the most money are the worst of the society.

NHL players are employees, they don't own anything, and a employees value is based on how much revenue he will produce for the company and how many other people there are that could do the same job as him. When it comes to pro athletes, or actors for example, the revenue they bring in from what they do is off the charts AND there aren't many people in the entire world that could do the same job...that is why athletes make so much and why they aren't overpaid, even at multi-million annual salaries.

Well, with actors and actresses, the salaries are always easier to understand. If said actor's films always do well at the box office, while a compartive film with a lesser actor doesn't, it becomes easier to trace the value of the actor. Plus, there are no 5 year deals in Hollywood. A couple of bombs, and your asking price takes quite the hit. Pro-sports, and hockey in particular, is much harder to estimate the impact of one player to financial success, which is what makes it so hard.

I'm currently reading an economics book that talks about the rising levels of CEOs salaries, and they made the comparison to pro-sport salaries. Interesting enough, the business world knows that salaries are too high, they just don't know how to deal with it. They've tried incentive based contracts, but that usually leads to CEOs managing for their indicators, rather than the long term good of the firm (much like a player who plays for his bonuses).
 
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