Why isn't the OHL more popular?

[bobber]

I am not sure how each and every concession contract is outlined but typically, the company that provides the concessions only gets a small percentage of the actual sale. Out of that percentage they pay the staff and the cost of the product.

Back before Jeff Hunt took over the 67’s, it was separated into thirds. One third went to the City for the “rental” of the concession space. One third went to the Rough Riders because they held the food and beverage rights in the entire LAnsdowne PArk. The final third went to whomever the company was at the time that operated the concessions. So if there was a $3 bottle of water, the company running the concessions only got $1. Same goes for beer and all the other stuff. That one third needs to pay for all the variable costs (labour/food) etc.

At that same time, Kingston ran their own concessions out of the old rink and prices were way cheaper. This was because there weren’t three hands in the same pocket. Now with all the new rinks and concession deals. Prices are outrageous because of all the grubby fingers in the same pie.

Thanks OMG. Nice break down. We bought two bottles of water in Belleville arena at a game a few years back and got change back for fiver. We were surprised. It is expensive to take a family to OHL games now. It will only get harder because the price of all commodities re rising and exposable income is not the same for a lot of folks as it use to be.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Too many teams is an issue. Too many crappy markets. A watered down talent base.

Someone mentioned fighting. I think that is an issue as well. I am not saying there should be more fighting because of the long term injury risk but that person is correct. Less tension in the game for sure.

To me, 15 teams is the sweet spot for talent distribution. Poor teams picking in the second round are getting players that are first rounders right now.

The trading fiascos or buy and sell is also tedious for a lot of fans. That cycle started around 2005 and coincidentally that is when attendance started its decline. Loads of player movement has hurt the identity of a franchise.

Cost is the biggest issue though. I was buying a season ticket for $199 in Ottawa around 1995. Game Day Tickets at that time were on par with Cineplex movies. Now it is tough to get a ticket for $20 and Cineplex is sitting at $11.99. Franchises now charge way too much for parking as well as the online service charges etc escalate the costs artificially.

This is good, 20 teams is far too many for a niche hockey league. I say niche because this sport truly just caters to a small group of a population in a given city.

The bubble popped in professional sports and if you're in a market where you can see professional sports it's a better deal. A few friends and I got 10 dollar tickets for a recent Wings game which is just over $12 canadian. You can't get into a junior hockey game for $12 unless you're a toddler and I'm not even sure of that now. My night at the Wings game cost around $31 canadian and that's what it would probably cost for a night out at a junior hockey game. CHL needs to rebrand or will be left behind. Need to evolve, their sportsnet broadcasts are pitiful which pretty much just showcases 4-5 teams consistently.

 

[Tim Wallach]

It's an interesting point about the bubble bursting. I have always felt it was just a matter of time. Especially with the NHL. Regular people just can't pay $200 or more per ticket for a game. Or sit in the stratosphere for $60. A few OHL teams had models of increasing the per-ticket price by $1 per season, but that isn't sustainable.

I have been a die hard (and I mean die hard) Hab fan my whole life but in the last couple of years I have turned down tickets multiple times. It used to be like the Holy Grail for me to have the honour of going to a game in person. Now, I can't bring myself to pay that much for games that are on TV. Especially for a league that shows such disdain for fans.

 

[member 71782]

The core demographic of the last 30/40 years are not enjoying the way the product on the ice has evolved. The value for money is no longer there.

The new target demographic has many, mainly cheaper options for their sports/entertainment dollar. The value for money is not there.

The centralizing of talent in fewer markets has watered down the quality in many markets. The value for money is no longer there.

The attitude/arrogance of the league that expects the fans to recognize how privileged they are to have a team in their city has turned many fans away. I grew up around my hometown team and honestly wouldn't miss them if they left.

The league is no longer interested in providing an entertaining product at a fair price, it is all about maximizing profit to the point they will/are pricing themselves out of their markets.

I can see this league contracting in the next five to ten years or having to go through a radical change to survive.

 

[Nabru]

The online fees are a real kick to the groin. In London, the online fees end up being almost 50% of the ticket price. A net price of ~$28 for a London/Peterborough game in November is beyond ridiculous.

On another note, I noticed the last few years that the intermissions in London have been stretched out to the point where 15 minute intermissions have become 20 or 21 minute intermissions. The opening puck drop is always 10-15 minutes late. I will admit that I’m a very bitchy person these days but I doubt many older folks or the iphone generation want to wait for all the advertising and crap before the actual product you’re paying through the nose for is delivered.

It’s a simple decision for me - find a stream online or listen to the game.

 

[OMG67]

The online fees are a real kick to the groin. In London, the online fees end up being almost 50% of the ticket price. A net price of ~$28 for a London/Peterborough game in November is beyond ridiculous.

On another note, I noticed the last few years that the intermissions in London have been stretched out to the point where 15 minute intermissions have become 20 or 21 minute intermissions. The opening puck drop is always 10-15 minutes late. I will admit that I’m a very *****y person these days but I doubt many older folks or the iphone generation want to wait for all the advertising and crap before the actual product you’re paying through the nose for is delivered.

It’s a simple decision for me - find a stream online or listen to the game.

Ticket fees are ridiculous. To me the funny part of ticket fees is that franchises went away from their own ticket agents selling tickets to save $$$ and allow the ticket brokers like TicketMaster to do it for them. The franchises save all the money in labour but the fans foot the bill for the ticket brokerage.

I went to a 67’s game a couple years ago after not renewing my season tickets and was shocked when I was charged not only a ticket brokerage fee at the gate but also a “Game Night” Surcharge. Apparently it was more expensive to buy the tickets at the gate on my way in. My $20 ticket was something like $28.

I think my season ticket a couple years previous (before the Lansdowne Park shut down) was about $350. So I went from $10-12 per game to $28!

The problem really is the cost to operate a franchise has gotten silly. Tuition packages and equipment etc are getting outrageous. Player costs are through the roof. What if they end up getting paid on top of that? The end.

 

[Nabru]

The problem really is the cost to operate a franchise has gotten silly. Tuition packages and equipment etc are getting outrageous. Player costs are through the roof. What if they end up getting paid on top of that? The end.

We see the cost become an issue when kids are just getting started at age 5-6. There are programs out there to help families get their kid started out but if they’re good enough to play AAA, the parents either foot the bills or you don’t play. Of course we live in Ontario where you wake up eveyday and Kathleen’s already emptied all your pockets, so single people and families need to spend very carefully!

The cost goes back to your point about the watered down product. The talent naturally becomes stretched thin with less kids playing hockey. I’ve been saying for years that there are too many teams in the OHL just as there are too many in the other 2 leagues and the NHL.

 

[swoopster]

I have to admit the game has been watered down as prices have gone through the roof. I want to drive to a game, be guaranteed of a start time, watch and get out. Like all sports, the games have gotten too long, especially with all the between periods shit. And the NOISE, blarring music ...the only quiet moment is when the game is in play.

I know I'm old and cranky, but all the other distracting stuff has gotten me to the point I'd just rather listen on the radio...like I did when I was a kid!

 

[Tim Wallach]

I agree with Swoopster, but less from a standpoint of being crusty about blaring music and more from a "teams/league have lost the plot" standpoint.

The game was built on the game. Fans came to be engrossed in the intensity on the ice. Intermissions were a short respite from the stress and tension.

But somewhere along the way the marketing geniuses felt the game had to be made into a grander event to gain the attention of a new generation of fans. Almost all of the effort (and resources) of teams went into nonsense like "game production" and community relations. It has completely distracted from the core product, obliterated the intensity and focus of the hockey and alienated the base, to borrow a political phrase.

 

[bobber]

The people in charge have tamed the game to the point of boredom now. In days gone by the fans would get noisy every time teams faced off because players on both sides of the puck would either take their time getting into position or monkey around at the dot. The league basically took most of fighting and hard hitting out of the game. Some games you watch now there is hardly a hit thrown. The OHL is suppose to be a developmental league for the NHL. Watch an NHL game and see how long a player can dipsy doodle around with out getting pasted. The game now is about speed and skill but all the rules put in place in the last ten years have made it boring like watching paint dry. If it wasn't for the noise metre at the Aud asking fans to scream you could hear pin drop most times. Even Dale Hunter never got the fans at the Aud into the game last week and that is very telling

 

[road warrior]

1) ticket prices & fees. I have to travel about an hour to get to the nearest OHL game. So I almost always buy a ticket in advance online. Ticket master fees, on top of the already hefty ticket price, means I'm paying aprox $28 to see a game (& for me + gas + food too). I could see 2 movies instead for that same $28 cost. I've seen very few games recently that are twice as entertaining as a good movie (many games are far less entertaining than a movie - that's despite me picking & choosing the games I go too)

2). OSA & others have brought up a great point - the intensity of games is no longer there. Good hard body checks are so rare today that I've taken to saying "oh look a body check - a hockey game just might break out here". Local rivalries are no where near what they used to be. That's why the entertainment value is diminished.

3). If risk of head injuries have forced a change in the way the game is played - and skill & speed are now the dominate factors in the league - then it's time to tweak the rules & the rules enforcement to allow skill & speed to be showcased every game. Crack down on the interference & slashing - all the time, not just for a few token games at the begging of the year. Open up the play to allow skilled players to show their speed & skill - and then market that skill & speed to find your audience. But don't try to sell me skill & then serve me a big helping of interference.

4). Are there too many teams? I think so. Eliminating 2 marginal teams & removing ~50 bottom end players from the league has to help the overall skill level in the league. That would mean going back to 3 x 6 team divisions again & that might help build back up the intensity of those rivalry games.

 

[OMG67]

1) ticket prices & fees. I have to travel about an hour to get to the nearest OHL game. So I almost always buy a ticket in advance online. Ticket master fees, on top of the already hefty ticket price, means I'm paying aprox $28 to see a game (& for me + gas + food too). I could see 2 movies instead for that same $28 cost. I've seen very few games recently that are twice as entertaining as a good movie (many games are far less entertaining than a movie - that's despite me picking & choosing the games I go too)

2). OSA & others have brought up a great point - the intensity of games is no longer there. Good hard body checks are so rare today that I've taken to saying "oh look a body check - a hockey game just might break out here". Local rivalries are no where near what they used to be. That's why the entertainment value is diminished.

3). If risk of head injuries have forced a change in the way the game is played - and skill & speed are now the dominate factors in the league - then it's time to tweak the rules & the rules enforcement to allow skill & speed to be showcased every game. Crack down on the interference & slashing - all the time, not just for a few token games at the begging of the year. Open up the play to allow skilled players to show their speed & skill - and then market that skill & speed to find your audience. But don't try to sell me skill & then serve me a big helping of interference.

4). Are there too many teams? I think so. Eliminating 2 marginal teams & removing ~50 bottom end players from the league has to help the overall skill level in the league. That would mean going back to 3 x 6 team divisions again & that might help build back up the intensity of those rivalry games.

I’m not sure what the right mix is for the number of teams but the reality is the league will not contract until such time as two teams become so insolvent that not even a move will help.

I totally agree regarding the rule changes. I never thought of it that way. I know the rules are there to protect the players health and I have no issues with that but then continue to tweak the rules to evolve the game to showcase the skill. Unfortunately, the speed part is also a problem. Players carrying too much speed through the neutral zonecauses issues as well, oddly enough.

 

[OSA]

Food for thought....

I'm on a trip out east to catch some QMJHL games. Tonight in Bathurst my ticket cost $13.60

 

[count35]

I think we're finally at our limit to city's to move teams to anyway. Where will they go where they haven't been already?

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I’m not sure what the right mix is for the number of teams but the reality is the league will not contract until such time as two teams become so insolvent that not even a move will help.

I totally agree regarding the rule changes. I never thought of it that way. I know the rules are there to protect the players health and I have no issues with that but then continue to tweak the rules to evolve the game to showcase the skill. Unfortunately, the speed part is also a problem. Players carrying too much speed through the neutral zonecauses issues as well, oddly enough.

I would personally be in favor of contracting 4 teams. I realize the chances of that happening are slim and none. Have 2 conferences 8 in the east 8 in the west. If you want 4 4 team divisions that's fine. Go to a 72 game schedule, top 4 teams in each conference make the playoffs. The other issue is that with 16 playoff teams rarely do you get very good attendance in round 1, or great series involving 1 v 8, 2 v 7. Contraction, reduction of playoff teams create overall tighter playoff series and better attendance.

 

[count35]

I would personally be in favor of contracting 4 teams. I realize the chances of that happening are slim and none. Have 2 conferences 8 in the east 8 in the west. If you want 4 4 team divisions that's fine. Go to a 72 game schedule, top 4 teams in each conference make the playoffs. The other issue is that with 16 playoff teams rarely do you get very good attendance in round 1, or great series involving 1 v 8, 2 v 7. Contraction, reduction of playoff teams create overall tighter playoff series and better attendance.

Also don’t add to the number of games in the season....there are too many anyway, and the season is too long. Cut about a month off and have the MC sometime in early April.

All the sports have seasons that are too long and people lose interest. I see highlights of the Red Wings games and there are TONS of empty seats, and that is a brand new building.

 

[bobber]

Also don’t add to the number of games in the season....there are too many anyway, and the season is too long. Cut about a month off and have the MC sometime in early April.

All the sports have seasons that are too long and people lose interest. I see highlights of the Red Wings games and there are TONS of empty seats, and that is a brand new building.

The length of the particular season in most sports is to generate money. In pro sports like the NHL , NFL etc. the salaries are incredible now and the billionaire owners want their share of the pie. It's a little different in the OHL where players are not really paid but the owners still want to see a profit and as was mentioned the cost of running a franchise is huge now. I am also shocked at seeing so many empty seats at both levels. Not sure how some of the OHL franchises pay the bills anymore. I think some teams could disappear just because people find better value for their money in other places. Also I think with new light being shed on concussions now as it should be the game has changed considerably. The old hard hitting game is gone and fans either have to except a more docile type of entertainment. Players use to be proud of their battle scars and getting a few chicklets knocked out. Now if an opposing players shadow goes by an opponent he rubs his chin to see if it's bleeding. If a player hits and plays on the edge they call him a throw back to the old days. Won't be long before they start handing out yellow cards like they do in soccer. I find the games at the Aud almost like a punishment some times.

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Just echoing what has already been said:

Cost: I just looked at a Knights @ Storm game in Nov, and online the tix start at 29.00. Pretty sure there is tax and fees on top. For a family of three or four that is ludicrous for an evening of "good value" entertainment. That's also before food and $9 ($9!!!!!) beers. I spoke to a vendor at a recent game and asked about the beer price - he said, expect it to increase until sales start to fall. Guess we will see what the ceiling is on what people will pay for a beer! As someone else said, these teams now have one goal in mind - profit. They are (mostly) no longer your small town, feel good community org.

The game: The game has changed a lot in the past few years. While many will agree it was needed in order to help to cut down on avoidable brain injuries, it's also taken a lot of the intensity and rivalry out of the games. They all seem very vanilla. Not exactly something that makes me want to get down to the rink. You used to be able to feel the excitement and the tension. It's very rarely like that anymore and I think that hurts too. It also doesn't help that the demographic for whom the game changed, seem very content to just stay at home and not pay for the game anyway. That's tough.

Talent: Watered down. 100% agree. Too many teams, and too many below standard players. Makes for sloppy hockey and bad games.

I do think that a lot of this can be changed, I'm just not sure the league is motivated to do it. They live in an echo chamber where they believe everything is great because they all talk together about how great things are. If they would look outside of the old boys club and ask real fans about what they like and dislike; what they'd like to see changed, I think the league would feel a whole less giddy about how great things are.

tl:dr - I cancelled my season seats this year and see no reason to return unless the Storm or league give me one. Not even a call to ask why I'm not renewing. Sad times. As someone said, many of these teams want to portray themselves as "big league", however they way they conduct business suggests the opposite.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Also don’t add to the number of games in the season....there are too many anyway, and the season is too long. Cut about a month off and have the MC sometime in early April.

All the sports have seasons that are too long and people lose interest. I see highlights of the Red Wings games and there are TONS of empty seats, and that is a brand new building.

Increasing the schedule by 4 games in a 16 team league is the concession to reduction of playoff teams and contraction. The bigger issue is the owners in the league or board of governors. As long as the league keeps voting on these issues brought by Branch or some sort of competition committee the league will have these issues and fall behind. Furthermore contraction likely means less road trips, time away from school(the league really values education), likely organizations saving money.

 

[count35]

Increasing the schedule by 4 games in a 16 team league is the concession to reduction of playoff teams and contraction. The bigger issue is the owners in the league or board of governors. As long as the league keeps voting on these issues brought by Branch or some sort of competition committee the league will have these issues and fall behind. Furthermore contraction likely means less road trips, time away from school(the league really values education), likely organizations saving money.

Ok now let’s open s real can of worms here. Which 2 or 4 teams would everyone agree on contracting.....give reasons if you can? This should be interesting. Lol All in good fun though please.

 

[ohloutsider]

Ok now let’s open s real can of worms here. Which 2 or 4 teams would everyone agree on contracting.....give reasons if you can? This should be interesting. Lol All in good fun though please.

The only chance you would have for a team to fold is the owners that are losing big money every year and possibly willing to take some kind of buy out from the league to disappear. Having said that not a fan of team reductions unless teams want out. Although the league is watered down it still gives more kids a chance to show their stuff to scouts . Taking away 80 or so player spots is not ideal for a development league. I stopped watching the NHL years ago because it was getting watered down - the league is still growing. Hockey in general is going through changes so making the leagues smaller at this point is not the "quick fix" answer that will help anyone.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

The only chance you would have for a team to fold is the owners that are losing big money every year and possibly willing to take some kind of buy out from the league to disappear. Having said that not a fan of team reductions unless teams want out. Although the league is watered down it still gives more kids a chance to show their stuff to scouts . Taking away 80 or so player spots is not ideal for a development league. I stopped watching the NHL years ago because it was getting watered down - the league is still growing. Hockey in general is going through changes so making the leagues smaller at this point is not the "quick fix" answer that will help anyone.

I don't see how taking away 80 spots would hurt the product. A few years ago there were 397 CHL grads on NHL rosters that amounts to an average of 6 graduates per CHL team. So your average player cycle is 4 years so at any given time you will have maybe 5 players make the NHL at one snapshot in time. Remember it's such a small % of players that make the NHL in the first place eliminating 80 OHL spots would be like throwing a penny in the ocean nobody would notice.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

Ok now let’s open s real can of worms here. Which 2 or 4 teams would everyone agree on contracting.....give reasons if you can? This should be interesting. Lol All in good fun though please.

I would start looking at franchises that have poor/below average arenas that are having issues with their municipal government in getting a new arena or renovations. If an organization is in that situation chances are at that current time they don't have the facilities to train and produce hockey players.

 

[ohloutsider]

I don't see how taking away 80 spots would hurt the product. A few years ago there were 397 CHL grads on NHL rosters that amounts to an average of 6 graduates per CHL team. So your average player cycle is 4 years so at any given time you will have maybe 5 players make the NHL at one snapshot in time. Remember it's such a small % of players that make the NHL in the first place eliminating 80 OHL spots would be like throwing a penny in the ocean nobody would notice.

But it would be to the kid that did not get a spot. their number is 100% not on a team.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

But it would be to the kid that did not get a spot. their number is 100% not on a team.

If you are dyed in the wool CHL guy then obviously. Fortunately for these kids CHL hockey isn't the only league for players. Union College won the 2014 national title 13 players were either the age of 22 or 23, some of those guys will never play AHL/NHL. This is why the model is broken, forcing kids 16 or 17 to make a decision the OHL deluding families and players into thinking that their son is going to make the NHL. Kids mature at different stages asking the public to shell out 25-30 dollars to watch 16-20 year olds. I remember going to hockey games for a lot cheaper than 20-25 dollars and I got to watch. There were a lot of players I enjoyed watching who didn't have long NHL careers like the Shannon brothers/Bill Bowler etc.. Part of the enjoyment was not having to pay 25 dollars to see them, along with being damn good players. I am not shelling out 25 dollars a game to see Cole Purboo pretend to be skating.