Why isn't Nico Hischier being given any spotlight?

BruinLVGA

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So having the number 1 pick in the draft play the final 35 seconds of the power play is spreading talent? Interesting. Is the though that Nico is so good that he does the equivalent of the first 1:25 in a 3rd the time?

How long have you watched hockey? Do you think that they have mandatory time outs to change the PP units?
Their second unit gets in when there's a stoppage in play & the first unit is spent energy-wise OR when the PK unit is able to clear the zone and the first PP unit is tired.
For the whole season their first PP unit has been having great territorial advantage and they normally score or keep the other team hemmed in for well over a minute. Hence the second PP unit gets the crumbs.

EDIT: and yes, putting your very talented, very defensively apt #1C and 2nd best points scorer for the whole team on the second unit is exactly spreading the talent.
 

CanCHI

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I wonder if Devils fans would let me sit in a Game day thread with them and watch a Hischer game
 

Lindys Lazy Eye

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It's not impressive because he hasn't done anything impressive. I was asking earlier just show me one play that I would go WOW. He isn't even outpacing a 6th round nobody on his own team. And don't give me he is younger blah blah. I expect a first overal pick to be leaps ahead of a 6th round nobody in his rookie year.

If it wasn't for Nico Hischier and that "6th round nobody" we wouldn't be calling this team the FIRST PLACE New Jersey Devils!
 
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Scorcho

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I'm pointing mostly to where he was at this point in his 27 games (or whatever point Hischier is relative to Matthews at that point). Until Matthews breakout around this point in the season, he was riding a sub-7 percent oiSH%. Matthews uptick in production was somewhat predictable to anyone who monitored those stats. Similar to how Marner and Laine having somewhat down sophomore years was.

He's drawn 13 individual penalties, which is impressive, especially for a non-pest type player (Tkachuk has 17 drawn but also takes a bunch) and he is a very smart and elusive player who plays a strong 2-way game for his age.

He's far from proved everyone wrong about him. He needs to sustain a high period of play for a much longer period than that. I'll admit, I could easily be wrong on him, but I saw his likely outcome as a Matt Duchene and RNH level prospect. For comparrison, those guys in their first 27 games had 29 points for RNH and Duchene had 12. RNH finished his season with 52 points in 62 games, while Duchene had 55 points in 81 games.

I get being excited about the kid, and their are clear trolls in this thread winding people up. But, its going to take a lot more than 27 games to prove people wrong unless you were convinced he was going to bust (which not many people were).

7% isn't that far off from 8.5%...
 

93LEAFS

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7% isn't that far off from 8.5%...
But Hischier's on-ice shooting percentage is 12.5% at 5v5. And when you are measuring every shot attempted at 5v5 that is a large difference over that many shot attempts. I'm not talking about his individual shooting percentage.

Not even the best players in the league hold one over 11% long-term, and only 5 players have held one over 10% when you look at a sample of 200 games or more played. it tends to be a stat that regresses to between 7 and 10%. With elite centers tending to be around 8.5% to 10%

To put it in perspective. The lowest possible oiSH% of forwards who have played at least 3500 minutes since 2012/13 there are 3 players above 10% (Schiefele, Getzlaf and Hudler) there are 21 below 7. Mostly bottom sixers with the only notable names being Jordan Staal, Dustin Brown, Elias Lindholm, and Evander Kane. But a bunch of names like Dwight King, Kruger, Korpikoski, Upshall, and Girgensons.
 
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Scorcho

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No Yak had 17 goals in 48 games rookie year including 11 in one month of play, and we had decided Johnson was a wash because he didn't play right out of the draft. He also had a good rookie year with like 30 points in 69 games at 18 min a night. Stefan was the one I conceded on, I changed my statement to Hischer is the 2nd least impressive 1st overall pick since Daigle.
\we?

literally no one agrees with you dude
 

Scorcho

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You could never agree that maybe the Devils coach believes Nico doesn't deserve to be on the first PP unit now would you? That is a real possibility. Because based on your guys thoughts of Nico, it would seem that the Devils are purposely making it harder for the team to win games by preventing Nico from playing the other 1:30 on the top PP unit

except they lead the division... so that argument is awful

also
 

Scorcho

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But Hischier's on-ice shooting percentage is 12.5% at 5v5. And when you are measuring every shot attempted at 5v5 that is a large difference over that many /shot attempts. I'm not talking about his individual shooting percentage.

Not even the best players in the league hold one over 11% long-term, and only 5 players have held one over 10% when you look at a sample of 200 games or more played. it tends to be a stat that regresses to between 7 and 10%. With elite centers tending to be around 8.5% to 10%

To put it in perspective. The lowest possible oiSH% of forwards who have played at least 3500 minutes since 2012/13 there are 3 players above 10% (Schiefele, Getzlaf and Hudler) there are 21 below 7. Mostly bottom sixers with the only notable names being Jordan Staal, Dustin Brown, Elias Lindholm, and Evander Kane. But a bunch of names like Dwight King, Kruger, Korpikoski, Upshall, and Girgensons.

i thought we were talking about how nico was unimpressive because he has less goals than matthews at this point in their respective careers...

maybe nico's oiSH% is higher because he is more proficient at making his teammates better than matthews is?

not saying either is a better player, but could that not theoretically be a valid reason?
 

93LEAFS

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i thought we were talking about how nico was unimpressive because he has less goals than matthews at this point in their respective careers...

maybe nico's oiSH% is higher because he is more proficient at making his teammates better than matthews is?

not saying either is a better player, but could that not theoretically be a valid reason?
If it was realistic. No one holds a 12.5% do you think he makes his teammates better than Crosby and McDavid, by a full 2%? Because that's basically the argument you are left defending if you are going to claim a 12.5% oiSH% is based on his ability to make his linemates better. Laine held one of 12.6% last year, and it has regressed to 8.9. Matthews had one of 7.7 last year to end the season, he has one of 10.6 this year. Despite his improvements, he didn't improve his playmaking and individual shooting ability to raise his oiSH% by 3%.

We were talking about point totals. I said Matthews numbers were depressed through his first 27 games due to bad luck. I think his explosion in points and raised oiSH% in the 2nd half of last year shows that.
 

VoidCreature

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If it was realistic. No one holds a 12.5% do you think he makes his teammates better than Crosby and McDavid, by a full 2%? Because that's basically the argument you are left defending if you are going to claim a 12.5% oiSH% is based on his ability to make his linemates better. Laine held one of 12.6% last year, and it has regressed to 8.9. Matthews had one of 7.7 last year to end the season, he has one of 10.6 this year. Despite his improvements, he didn't improve his playmaking and individual shooting ability to raise his oiSH% by 3%.

We were talking about point totals. I said Matthews numbers were depressed through his first 27 games due to bad luck. I think his explosion in points and raised oiSH% in the 2nd half of last year shows that.

It's definitely high, but I don't even know how to begin trying to account for how it's influencing his point totals. His all-situational shooting percentage doesn't seem overly high to me, and his individual shooting percentage going up could negate whatever assists he might lose with a lower oiSH% at 5v5?

There's also the very possible scenario that he improves the volume of plays he makes, and that this makes up for the inevitable percentage drop.

I'm not a mathematician and I won't pretend to be, but my eyes show me steady improvement in his game in all areas. He's generating significantly more high quality looks for his team mates than he was just weeks ago. It's been said multiple times, but as he adds muscle his game is going to evolve even further. He's completely relentless down low, but other players are able to control him fairly easily when they get their hands on him. He's becoming much more elusive as he gets used to the speed of the NHL, but being able to power through checks is going to add a whole new dimension to his game.

It's something to add to the discussion, but considering how far he is from a finished product I don't think it works as a comprehensive dismissal of his potential.
 
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Scorcho

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It's definitely high, but I don't even know how to begin trying to account for how it's influencing his point totals. His all-situational shooting percentage doesn't seem overly high to me, and his individual shooting percentage going up could negate whatever assists he might lose with a lower oiSH% at 5v5?

There's also the very possible scenario that he improves the volume of plays he makes, and that this makes up for the inevitable percentage drop.

I'm not a mathematician and I won't pretend to be, but my eyes show me steady improvement in his game in all areas. He's generating significantly more high quality looks for his team mates than he was just weeks ago. It's been said multiple times, but as he adds muscle his game is going to evolve even further. He's completely relentless down low, but other players are able to control him fairly easily when they get their hands on him. He's becoming much more elusive as he gets used to the speed of the NHL, but being able to power through checks is going to add a whole new dimension to his game.

It's something to add to the discussion, but considering how far he is from a finished product I don't think it works as a comprehensive dismissal of his potential.

thank you for putting into to words what I am too high to express right now
 
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93LEAFS

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It's definitely high, but I don't even know how to begin trying to account for how it's influencing his point totals. His all-situational shooting percentage doesn't seem overly high to me, and his individual shooting percentage going up could negate whatever assists he might lose with a lower oiSH% at 5v5?

There's also the very possible scenario that he improves the volume of plays he makes, and that this makes up for the inevitable percentage drop.

I'm not a mathematician and I won't pretend to be, but my eyes show me steady improvement in his game in all areas. He's generating significantly more high quality looks for his team mates than he was just weeks ago. It's been said multiple times, but as he adds muscle his game is going to evolve even further. He's completely relentless down low, but other players are able to control him fairly easily when they get their hands on him. He's becoming much more elusive as he gets used to the speed of the NHL, but being able to power through checks is going to add a whole new dimension to his game.

It's something to add to the discussion, but considering how far he is from a finished product I don't think it works as a comprehensive dismissal of his potential.
I didn't use it to dismiss his potential. Just that it makes his current numbers likely inflated. Every year we see this when someone starts hot, and people claim its sustainable for a variety of reasons. Rarely does it ever hold true long term. For example, Yakupov and RNH rode very high on-ice shooting percentages to rookie season they never repeated. I don't expect that to happen with Hischier, he looks like he can be a legitimate 1st line NHL player, but I'd wait a little bit before crowning him when there is that much statistical noise still left in his sample of production.

His oiSH% incorporates his own. So, that would be factored in. I don't doubt he can be a high-end player who consistently can hold a 8.5% to 10% one. But, to say over a 27 game sample size (which is repeatedly used to compare to Matthews first 27 games or whatever game Hischier is currently at), when Matthews was on the lower end of forwards which made his improvement in the final 2/3 of the year somewhat predictable.

All situation oiSH% isn't really that useful. Powerplays have high volatility because the sample is so small, its only alarming when a guy is above 20%. Considering that, looking at 5v5 is most telling because that is when a majority of the game is played at. So, even an uptick in PP rarely off-sets a decrease at 5v5.
 

FinRanger

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Who is saying only talk about him?
Sorry I was lazy with my post. Should have phrased it better. I give you 5 reasons why he is not hyped:

1. Hischier got the number one draft spot in his last year before draft if I am right? He was not that hyped 2 or 3 years before the draft. Also it was pretty tight race for the 1 spot till the end.

2. Lots of rookies are contributing well. This will be a record breaking rookie year. Many guys will break 50 points mark.

3. Hischier has not done anything flashy. No 4 goal games, no hatricks against Leafs etc. Also took an eternity for him to score his first goal. People forgot about him.

4. Scoring is up this season. Looks like if he scores the same amount of points that Matthews did last year it is not on the same level cause scoring is up this year. Everyone is scoring!

5. He is not even close to being the best scorer on his team. (he is second but Hall has a big lead)
 

Cult of Hynes

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2. Lots of rookies are contributing well. This will be a record breaking rookie year. Many guys will break 50 points mark.

3. Hischier has not done anything flashy. No 4 goal games, no hatricks against Leafs etc. Also took an eternity for him to score his first goal. People forgot about him.

And Hischier will most likely be one of those rookies to break the 50 point mark.

It took him 7 games to score his first goal, and he wound up scoring a second one in that game as well. Didn't know 7 games is an eternity.

He is currently on pace point wise with what Auston Matthews had at this point last season.


4. Scoring is up this season. Looks like if he scores the same amount of points that Matthews did last year it is not on the same level cause scoring is up this year. Everyone is scoring!

Ah moving goal posts.

5. He is not even close to being the best scorer on his team. (he is second but Hall has a big lead)

So because he's not out scoring another first overall pick that is a 7 year veteran in the NHL and one of the elite wingers in the league, that means he's not worthy of being talked about a bit more?
 
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Devils090

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We've always been a franchise that never gets credit for anything so it's whatever. I'll say it again, I'd rather Nico fly under the radar like Elias did his whole career than be some overhyped media darling who plays for a big market team.
 

FinRanger

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And Hischier will most likely be one of those rookies to break the 50 point mark.

It took him 7 games to score his first goal, and he wound up scoring a second one in that game as well. Didn't know 7 games is an eternity.

He is currently on pace point wise with what Auston Matthews had at this point last season.




Ah moving goal posts.



So because he's not out scoring another first overall pick that is a 7 year veteran in the NHL and one of the elite wingers in the league, that means he's not worthy of being talked about a bit more?

Well yes he should be talked about a little bit more. I was just thinking reasons why he is not talked more. Great 2-way game is not very media sexy in hockey.
 

NJ DevLolz

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But Hischier's on-ice shooting percentage is 12.5% at 5v5. And when you are measuring every shot attempted at 5v5 that is a large difference over that many shot attempts. I'm not talking about his individual shooting percentage.

Not even the best players in the league hold one over 11% long-term, and only 5 players have held one over 10% when you look at a sample of 200 games or more played. it tends to be a stat that regresses to between 7 and 10%. With elite centers tending to be around 8.5% to 10%

To put it in perspective. The lowest possible oiSH% of forwards who have played at least 3500 minutes since 2012/13 there are 3 players above 10% (Schiefele, Getzlaf and Hudler) there are 21 below 7. Mostly bottom sixers with the only notable names being Jordan Staal, Dustin Brown, Elias Lindholm, and Evander Kane. But a bunch of names like Dwight King, Kruger, Korpikoski, Upshall, and Girgensons.
His ES scoring will drop a little but you fail to mention he has been unlucky on the pp
 
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VoidCreature

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30 goals have been scored with Nico on the ice so far this year, 3 more than the expected 27. Hischier has 20 points on these 30 tallies, a 66% rate of point conversion. At the same rate, he would have 18 points on the expected 27 goals. This doesn't seem like a notable disparity to me. Projecting these totals over a full year, the range is from 54-60 points. These totals would place him between John Tavares and Nathan Mackinnon for rookie point production.

Comparing him to Nugent-Hopkins, the Edmonton center had 52 points on the 73 goals scored with him on the ice. That's 11 higher than the expected 62. The 52 points came on a 71% conversion rate, applying the same to the lower expected total he goes from a 68 point pace over 82 to 58, which still would have been a career high.

The problem with Nugent-Hopkins isn't that he rode the percentages in his rookie year, it's that he never developed any further. I can't speak to why that is, but Hischier looks to have a lot of room for further growth.
 
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@CanCHI is just mad because the Hawks are paying Toews 9 million a year to back check, so he's trying to discredit any defensive abilities Nico has.
 
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He doesnt have the same weight on his shoulders that Barzal has. The entire state of New York is counting on Barzal to deliver a cup. Given this, the spotlight is purely Matty B's.
 

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