Why is J.C. Tremblay not in the Hockey Hall of Fame?

[blueandgoldguy]

J.C. Tremblay had quite the exceptional career with the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL an later with the Quebec Nordiques of the WHA.

He played 13 seasons in the NHL and highlights included:

one 1st team all-star
one second team all-star
finished top-5 in Norris Trophy voting five times
two-time Murphy Trophy winner for best defenseman in the WHA
three-time first team all-star in the WHA

He appeared to produce some exceptional numbers for a defenseman in the Stanley Cup playoffs as well, specifically 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1971 (17 points in 20 games)

Elite for several seasons with a very notable peak and left the NHL in his offensive prime by the looks of the numbers. He appears to be one of the best D-men of his era.

Was he considered a passenger that benefited from playing with other defensemen like Savard, Lapointe and Laperriere? Or did his move to the WHA create resentment among the HOF voting establishment that exists to this very day?

I would like to hear from the posters about what type of defenseman he was...maybe there are some quotes or stories from notable players in the game espousing his on-ice virtues.

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[JMCx4]

... Was he considered a passenger that benefited from playing with other defensemen like Savard, Lapointe and Laperriere? Or did his move to the WHA create resentment among the HOF voting establishment that exists to this very day? ...

I'd bet on the latter ... with the former being their excuse if challenged.

 

[Canadiens1958]

J.C. Tremblay had quite the exceptional career with the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL an later with the Quebec Nordiques of the WHA.

He played 13 seasons in the NHL and highlights included:

one 1st team all-star
one second team all-star
finished top-5 in Norris Trophy voting five times
two-time Murphy Trophy winner for best defenseman in the WHA
three-time first team all-star in the WHA

He appeared to produce some exceptional numbers for a defenseman in the Stanley Cup playoffs as well, specifically 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1971 (17 points in 20 games)

Elite for several seasons with a very notable peak and left the NHL in his offensive prime by the looks of the numbers. He appears to be one of the best D-men of his era.

Was he considered a passenger that benefited from playing with other defensemen like Savard, Lapointe and Laperriere? Or did his move to the WHA create resentment among the HOF voting establishment that exists to this very day?

I would like to hear from the posters about what type of defenseman he was...maybe there are some quotes or stories from notable players in the game espousing his on-ice virtues.

In the NHL J.C. Tremblay needed a specific type of defensive partner to play his game. Effective only with a physical presence on LD - first Lou Fontinato, then Ted Harris. Same is true for the partners. Both Fontinato and Harris led the NHL in +/- when partnered with J.C. Tremblay.

You raise his strong playoffs in 1965, 1966, 1968, 1971. But where was he during the regular season:

1965RS, outscored and outperformed by Jacques Laperriere, the teams best defenceman and Jean-Guy Talbot by then the 5th d-man and PK specialist:

1964-65 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

Laperriere was hurt midway in the 1965 playoffs.

1966 better RS,lead team d-men in scoring and the team in scoring in the playoffs, but defensive holes persisted:

1965-66 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1967, 1968,1969, RS at the 30-40 point RS plateau,nothing special in the playoffs except for the final round in 1968.1968 he was a 2nd team AS as injuries and aging of the NHL old guard contributed. 1970 major regression to 21 RS points.

1966-67 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1967-68 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1968-69 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1969-70 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1971, bounce back RS, 1st AST but gets offset by a 3rd place finish in the Norris, solid playoffs but the defensive game was not at the level expected from a 10+ season veteran:

1970-71 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

1972 showed that 1971 was an outlier RS:

1971-72 Montreal Canadiens Roster and Statistics | Hockey-Reference.com

A few comments. Never the Canadiens #1 defenceman during the RS unless injuries put him in the position, then he was a shaky #1, never taking the opportunity to establish himself as a true #1. Laperriere was always the #1,the Serge Savard became the #1 in waiting by 1969, winning the Smythe in 1969.

The 1960s Canadiens PP after Doug Harvey was such that the LD on the PP,first Talbot later Tremblay would inevitably be the top scorer amongst the team's defencemen. Tremblay played LD on the PP, RD at ES.

J.C. Tremblay played the 4th d-man role in certain situational match-ups.Terry Harper drew the big LWs like Bobby Hull and Frank Mahovlich.

So that is the J.C.Tremblay dilemma when it comes to the HHOF. Did he ever elevate his game to the level of other Canadiens d-men who made the HHOF?

 

[Big Phil]

He should be in, in my opinion. Outside of Beliveau, no one was more important to that 1960s dynasty than him. Probably the best Hab in the 1966 playoffs, but the Conn Smythe went to losing goalie Roger Crozier instead.

He was a #1 defenseman on 5 Cup wins, or at least #1 for some of them. He was one of those bridges between the Harvey decline on defense and the Savard and Lapointe emergence on defense. How he gets forgotten in NHL history is insane. Not to mention, of all the overrated players in NHL history that we bring up on here (I often mention Hawerchuk, Lach, Bathgate, Malkin, etc.) no one ever thinks of him.

A couple things hurt him. Leaving to go to the WHA didn't help. He was a 1st team all-star in 1971, finished 5th in Norris voting in 1972 and because of his WHA decision didn't help Team Canada against the Soviets. I think if he plays in that tournament he is better remembered.

Either way, on his NHL career alone you put a guy like that in. He was around for too much success to be forgotten. One thing that has never helped him, I don't think, was that he died in 1994 at 55 years old. Maybe that keeps him out of the spotlight a bit more? I don't know.

 

[DowntownBooster]

He should be in, in my opinion. Outside of Beliveau, no one was more important to that 1960s dynasty than him. Probably the best Hab in the 1966 playoffs, but the Conn Smythe went to losing goalie Roger Crozier instead.

A couple things hurt him. Leaving to go to the WHA didn't help. He was a 1st team all-star in 1971, finished 5th in Norris voting in 1972 and because of his WHA decision didn't help Team Canada against the Soviets. I think if he plays in that tournament he is better remembered.

Either way, on his NHL career alone you put a guy like that in. He was around for too much success to be forgotten. One thing that has never helped him, I don't think, was that he died in 1994 at 55 years old. Maybe that keeps him out of the spotlight a bit more? I don't know.

Going to the WHA shouldn't preclude Tremblay from membership in the HHOF. Vladislav Tretiak was inducted and never played a game in the NHL. If as you say - on his NHL career alone you put a guy like that in - then he should not be excluded because he left the NHL to play in the WHA. Perhaps the HHOF should be renamed the NHL HOF.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

J.C. Tremblay had quite the exceptional career with the Montreal Canadiens in the NHL an later with the Quebec Nordiques of the WHA.

He played 13 seasons in the NHL and highlights included:

one 1st team all-star
one second team all-star
finished top-5 in Norris Trophy voting five times
two-time Murphy Trophy winner for best defenseman in the WHA
three-time first team all-star in the WHA

He appeared to produce some exceptional numbers for a defenseman in the Stanley Cup playoffs as well, specifically 1965, 1966, 1968 and 1971 (17 points in 20 games)

Elite for several seasons with a very notable peak and left the NHL in his offensive prime by the looks of the numbers. He appears to be one of the best D-men of his era.

Was he considered a passenger that benefited from playing with other defensemen like Savard, Lapointe and Laperriere? Or did his move to the WHA create resentment among the HOF voting establishment that exists to this very day?

I would like to hear from the posters about what type of defenseman he was...maybe there are some quotes or stories from notable players in the game espousing his on-ice virtues.

you answered your own question

1x 1st team
1x 2nd team

no other individual awards

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

He'd easily be in if it hadn't left the NHL for the WHA.

 

[DowntownBooster]

He'd easily be in if it hadn't left the NHL for the WHA.

Why is Tretiak in the HHOF when he never played a game as a member of an NHL team?

 

[Big Phil]

you answered your own question

1x 1st team
1x 2nd team

no other individual awards

5 Cups..............and the #1 defenseman on several of them. Can we find a defenseman that isn't in that has done this?

Going to the WHA shouldn't preclude Tremblay from membership in the HHOF. Vladislav Tretiak was inducted and never played a game in the NHL. If as you say - on his NHL career alone you put a guy like that in - then he should not be excluded because he left the NHL to play in the WHA. Perhaps the HHOF should be renamed the NHL HOF.

I guess if anything there is an argument that he didn't make more of an impact in the regular season in the 1960s at a time when there was a lull in elite Norris winners. There was a gap between Harvey and Orr where you could argue he should have made more of an impact but considering everything else he did in between I think it makes up for it.

 

[Canadiens1958]

5 Cups..............and the #1 defenseman on several of them. Can we find a defenseman that isn't in that has done this?



I guess if anything there is an argument that he didn't make more of an impact in the regular season in the 1960s at a time when there was a lull in elite Norris winners. There was a gap between Harvey and Orr where you could argue he should have made more of an impact but considering everything else he did in between I think it makes up for it.

Never the #1 defenceman except when Laperriere, later Savard were injured.

Laperriere actually won a Norris, has a better CV when it comes to Norris - 6 top five finishes in a shorter span, Calder winner, and AST voting , 2 firsts in the O6 and 2 seconds.

Tremblay did not make an impact because Laperriere was making the impact.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Why is Tretiak in the HHOF when he never played a game as a member of an NHL team?

Tretiak wasnt seen as turning his back on the old schoolers who ran the NHL like Tremblay or Carl Brewer.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Never the #1 defenceman except when Laperriere, later Savard were injured.

Laperriere actually won a Norris, has a better CV when it comes to Norris - 6 top five finishes in a shorter span, Calder winner, and AST voting , 2 firsts in the O6 and 2 seconds.

Tremblay did not make an impact because Laperriere was making the impact.

The Habs won more than one Cup with Lapperiere injured in the playoffs and Tremblay playing as their #1 in his absence

Anyway, both Lapperriere and Tremblay are easy HHOFers if it weren't for the WHA thing

 

[Canadiens1958]

The Habs won more than one Cup with Lapperiere injured in the playoffs and Tremblay playing as their #1 in his absence

Anyway, both Lapperriere and Tremblay are easy HHOFers if it weren't for the WHA thing

Just 1966 during Tremblay's tenure.

 

[DowntownBooster]

The Habs won more than one Cup with Lapperiere injured in the playoffs and Tremblay playing as their #1 in his absence

Anyway, both Lapperriere and Tremblay are easy HHOFers if it weren't for the WHA thing

Dave Keon also left the employ of the NHL for the WHA and he was inducted into the HHOF. In the case of J. C. Tremblay, there must be more to his exclusion from the HHOF other than leaving the NHL for the WHA.

 

[Killion]

Dave Keon also left the employ of the NHL for the WHA and he was inducted into the HHOF. In the case of J. C. Tremblay, there must be more to his exclusion from the HHOF other than leaving the NHL for the WHA.

If you go up page several posts, C58 provides a pretty comprehensive explanation with links as to why he hasnt been inducted. I remember him well, watching him with Montreal in the 60's, one of my favorites as he could be offensively explosive, great playmaker, elegant and clean player, "rangy". Great skater, stickhandler, played the angles well, responsible. I saw him mostly vs Toronto and Montreal generally played it tighter against the Leafs during the 60's, last decade of the 06 era so I didnt really see Tremblays defensive deficiencies. Quite the opposite in fact. He stood out even amongst that crew, both sides, the greats in blue & white included, just not as "rugged". More finesse. Post Expansion until his jump to the WHA I remember him as being one of the Premier Defencemen in the League though did note he had fallen down the pecking order on the Habs blueline as they had a wealth of riches coming of age, to maturity at that time. None the less, I do believe he passes the bar & then some, should be in, you saw him in the WHA, and there too a force to be reckoned with. One of if not the best Defencemen in that League, in the World.

 

[Canadiens1958]

If you go up page several posts, C58 provides a pretty comprehensive explanation with links as to why he hasnt been inducted. I remember him well, watching him with Montreal in the 60's, one of my favorites as he could be offensively explosive, great playmaker, elegant and clean player, "rangy". Great skater, stickhandler, played the angles well, responsible. I saw him mostly vs Toronto and Montreal generally played it tighter against the Leafs during the 60's, last decade of the 06 era so I didnt really see Tremblays defensive deficiencies. Quite the opposite in fact. He stood out even amongst that crew, both sides, the greats in blue & white included, just not as "rugged". More finesse. Post Expansion until his jump to the WHA I remember him as being one of the Premier Defencemen in the League though did note he had fallen down the pecking order on the Habs blueline as they had a wealth of riches coming of age, to maturity at that time. None the less, I do believe he passes the bar & then some, should be in, you saw him in the WHA, and there too a force to be reckoned with. One of if not the best Defencemen in that League, in the World.

Thank you.

My posts were meant to explain J.C. Tremblay's career with substance as opposed to revisionist nonsense.

A case may be made either way.

 

[Killion]

Thank you.

My posts were meant to explain J.C. Tremblay's career with substance as opposed to revisionist nonsense.

A case may be made either way.

Indeed. I'm pro-induction on that one... obviously.

 

[reckoning]

The WHA was likely a factor with the HHOF committee at the time, but there's no reason why anyone would still hold a grudge today. Mike Gartner and Anders Hedberg are on the current selection committee, and they both played in the WHA.

I'm guessing nobody has made a case for him during voting in recent years. He passed away over 20 years ago. It's possible he's been overlooked with all the newly eligible players each year getting most of the publicity. Maybe if someone advocated for him and they voted on it, he might get in.

 

[Canadiens1958]

The WHA was likely a factor with the HHOF committee at the time, but there's no reason why anyone would still hold a grudge today. Mike Gartner and Anders Hedberg are on the current selection committee, and they both played in the WHA.

I'm guessing nobody has made a case for him during voting in recent years. He passed away over 20 years ago. It's possible he's been overlooked with all the newly eligible players each year getting most of the publicity. Maybe if someone advocated for him and they voted on it, he might get in.

Bowman just finished his 15 year stint - not happy with J.C. Tremblay 1971-72. Serge Savard and a fair number of Quebec writers who covered both leagues have cycled thru the committee as well.

My opinion is that you would need to find one or two unique qualities to advance the discussion.

Stylistically he was close to a more penalized Bill Quackenbush but produced a much smaller trophy case:

Bill Quackenbush Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

J.C. Tremblay Stats | Hockey-Reference.com

Perhaps showing how much the play of Lou Fontinato and Ted Harris improved playing with him. Both led the NHL in plus/minus when partnered with Tremblay.

Another would be to show his contribution to four Vezina Trophies basically with a revolving door of goalies - Plante, Hodge, Worsley, Vachon as opposed to the AST/Awards angle.

 

[Big Phil]

Never the #1 defenceman except when Laperriere, later Savard were injured.

Laperriere actually won a Norris, has a better CV when it comes to Norris - 6 top five finishes in a shorter span, Calder winner, and AST voting , 2 firsts in the O6 and 2 seconds.

Tremblay did not make an impact because Laperriere was making the impact.

Still was the #1 defenseman on some Cup wins though. 1965, 1966, 1968, 1971..............not the best d-man you don't think? At least in those postseasons. Outside of Beliveau, no one is more important to that dynasty than Tremblay. I'll give you 1969 with Savard of course, but 1971 that defense is all Tremblay's. He is also no worse than Laperriere career-wise. He should be in.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Still was the #1 defenseman on some Cup wins though. 1965, 1966, 1968, 1971..............not the best d-man you don't think? At least in those postseasons. Outside of Beliveau, no one is more important to that dynasty than Tremblay. I'll give you 1969 with Savard of course, but 1971 that defense is all Tremblay's. He is also no worse than Laperriere career-wise. He should be in.

Perhaps 1966 when Laperriere was hurt. Defense was never all Tremblay's. Usually Laperriere and Harper finished the one goal lead games.

 

[reckoning]

Bowman just finished his 15 year stint - not happy with J.C. Tremblay 1971-72

I wasn't aware that Bowman had any issues with Tremblay. For what it's worth, Bowman had Tremblay rated quite high (#51) on his all-time top Canadian players list, ahead of Pilote, Johnson, and Laperriere.

Do you think Tremblay would've been the Conn Smythe winner in 1966 if they gave it to a Montreal player instead of Roger Crozier?

 

[Canadiens1958]

I wasn't aware that Bowman had any issues with Tremblay. For what it's worth, Bowman had Tremblay rated quite high (#51) on his all-time top Canadian players list, ahead of Pilote, Johnson, and Laperriere.

Do you think Tremblay would've been the Conn Smythe winner in 1966 if they gave it to a Montreal player instead of Roger Crozier?

Not issues. Rather after 1970-71 when Beliveau and Ferguson retired, Pollock and Bowman - new coach, expected leadership from returning veterans. Did not happen with Tremblay. His contract was ending and there was talk of an off season trade before he signed with Quebec.

1966 Conn Smythe. Yes Gilles Tremblay who held Howe to one ES goal at 19:59 of the 3rd period, game 3 in a 4-2 win. Howe's other point was a PP assist. Tremblay scored 4 points - 2G + 2A, all critical, first goal, winning goal, etc. Also Beliveau ahead of J.C. Tremblay.

 

[Big Phil]

I wasn't aware that Bowman had any issues with Tremblay. For what it's worth, Bowman had Tremblay rated quite high (#51) on his all-time top Canadian players list, ahead of Pilote, Johnson, and Laperriere.

Do you think Tremblay would've been the Conn Smythe winner in 1966 if they gave it to a Montreal player instead of Roger Crozier?

I personally think he does win it. Beliveau had just won the award the year prior.