why do you support owners or players?

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Leadzedder

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Jan 2, 2005
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Biggest Canuck Fan said:
But they know the real numbers. They know what will work for them. How can any of these players and thier Union know more than these owners.

In Essences that is what the Union is saying. We know more than you... even though we only have 10% of the data you do.


Umm, what? Are you saying that the NHL system is the only system that will work due to the owners knowing the numbers. And that is the precise system they need. Firstly, this lock out system seems to be working fine for some of them, also, I couldnt' guess how many but many of the teams were exactly fine the way it was. And you bring up another valid issue. With all this tied to revenue stuff, has anyone even defined revenue? With conflicting reports, what numbers have the NHL and PA been using? Are the players suppose to say "yeah thats cool, we'll go 55%, just cook the books and get back to us with our share". But back to your post, I'm not really sure what you mean. Shouldn't both sides be in the know regarding figures that proposals are based on.
 

Leadzedder

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Smail said:
I'm pro-owner because so far they are the voice of reason (which is sad). I think that a company can try to right its ship when it's sinking and imo that's what the NHL owners are trying to do. I can't fault them for trying to stop the losses. On the other hand, it's just killing me that the players are not trying to get the deal that will grant them the most they can. At this point, they've already lost more than what they can hope to gain in the future, so they've already lost the negociations. I just can't accept that instead of cutting the loss they're happy losing more and more everyday for "principles". That's how good people end up in bad situations and it makes me sad.

So basically I'm pro-owner because I can't agree with a side that's commiting an industry suicide with a smile.


They've lost the PR war, they havent' lost the CBA thing until one is signed. It's not like they **** the bed and lost out on a good deal trying to wait it out for a better one. I dont' understand the mass majority opinion that they are dragging this out. Bettman and Goodenow are both dragging this out.
 

CarlRacki

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Feb 9, 2004
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I'm pro-owner not because I particularly like the owners or their tactics, nor do I dislike the players (well, maybe a few, but I hope they don't represent the whole).

I'm pro-owner because I recognize the league is broke and needs to be fixed. When the top three teams have payrolls about three times larger than the bottom three, something is not right. When a third of the league's franchise values are falling, something is not right. When there are more teams losing money than making money, something is not right.

Is a hard cap the answer? Might be, I don't know. I have other preferences, but I can't say that's the answer either. What I can say, however, is that the owners are putting forward proposals that seek to address the problems. Are they doing it for their own self-interest? Of course. No one should expect otherwise. Businessmen aren't in business to lose money, after all.
The players, on the other hand, have offered nothing that will change the systematic problems in the game right now. In fact, they seem to be in a combination of denial over the state of the game and resentment over the fact it needs fixing.
 
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Seachd

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Mar 16, 2002
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I'm strongly on the owners' side. And it's a pretty easy decision for me. I guess my reasons might be a little selfish, but like others have said, the owners' stance to me seems to be the most reasonable for the teams, the fans, and the league as a whole, while still making multimillionaires out of almost every NHLer.

But my selfishness doesn't really matter when it comes to the NHL. I can be as selfish as I want, and as far as the hockey world is concerned, it only affects me. That's not how it works with the players, however. Their selfishness and greed plays a huge role in this, and I don't find it to be a reasonable stance. They're fighting this battle based solely on what they want, and if they can't get their way, they seem to be willing to take down the league, the teams, the fans, and the Cup in a blaze of sour grapes.

The owners at least seem to care a little bit about the health of the league. And whether they're doing that to pad their pockets or to keep their heads above water doesn't matter to me (of course, the end result financially will be different for every team). If some owners happen to make more and more money to save the league, I can't complain.

I just think it's foolish for the players to turn down a future filled with million-dollar seasons for nothing.
 

silver_made*

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I support the Owners, and it is very simple reasoning:

The players want NBA salaries from a league raking in MLS revenues. Expressing total disregard for the evident economic troubles faced by the league, whether you want to go with Forbes' or Levitt's numbers, is absolute arrogance. When you want to deliberately bite the hand that feeds you, you deserve zero support. The owners are assuming risk in purchasing these franchises, and if I invested mega millions in a business, I would HOPE to pull a profit. A-hole 4th liners like Rob Niedermayer can be millionaires, but an owner is not allowed to make a profit? Please explain to me how the cap will turn players into street-roaming winos? The players roll in dough either way, and the owners simply wanting to turn a profit on a venture they invested money in and assume 100% risk is unreasonable? Big fat edge: owners.

The paranoia from the college degree-lacking players is that the league will blow up NFL style and that the owners will go Bill Gates style while the players are stuck with their paltry $5-$6 mil/season contracts. Squash the paranoia, b/c it will never happen. Drop your "we're being used" mantra. I'm beginning to think that of the 4 major sports (oh, the nhl is no longer one; surpassed by NASCAR :lol ), NHLers are the most overpaid considering the financial support the league receives.
 
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SENSible1*

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The strongest leagues have the weakest PA's.

Time for the NHL to bring this PA to heel.
 

SuperUnknown

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Leadzedder said:
They've lost the PR war, they havent' lost the CBA thing until one is signed. It's not like they **** the bed and lost out on a good deal trying to wait it out for a better one. I dont' understand the mass majority opinion that they are dragging this out. Bettman and Goodenow are both dragging this out.

Whenever the season is cancelled, they have lost. Whatever CBA they sign, they'll get less money during the next 10 years than if they would have signed the owners CBA at the start of the year.

In other words, if the NHL owners agree to go with the players CBA offer at the start of next year, the players would still make less money in 10 years from now at 70% of the total revenues going to them than if they would have settled on a salary cap at $42M at the start of this year. Which means that they have lost.

And the longer this drags on, the more they lose, as the industry loses revenues. For every 1$ of revenue that's being lost, the players are forfeiting at least 0.55$ (at the owners latest offer rate) from going into their pocket. The owners, on the other hand, weren't making money, so they aren't forfeiting anything (at best, some owners are forfeiting the small share of profit they make). So if the revenues drop from $2B to $1.5B (as analysts predict), the players are at least forfeiting $275M, likely for years to come, on top of all they are forfeiting this year (at least $1.1B). Since NHL revenues are dropping daily as this conflict endures, the players are bigger losers with every day passing by.

Hence, the players are the losers whatever they finally sign, for the gains they'll make from here will never exceed the losses suffered so far and in the future, which makes their stand beyond reason, especially if you consider that if the system they negociate this time around, they'll be locked out again in 5-10 years and once again suffer a loss of immediate and future salaries as the industry corrodes. :help:
 

Mess

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Feb 27, 2002
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neelynugs said:
just curious- it appears there's about an 80% owner support percentage amongst hockey fans, and i was wondering (mainly from the PA supporters) why you choose the side you choose.
The NHLPA has suggested of Starting up a Players only league .. Where Marty Brodeur. Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton , Chris Pronger etc invest their own Money and start up Super League ..

While the NHL goes with replacement players in 30 arena's made up of unsigned AHLers and ECHL players.

I wonder which Hockey the majority of Fans will support and watch .. Certainly I believe the NHLPA supporter fans will go with the players .. How many Pro-owner fans will ???
 

Jaded-Fan

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Mar 18, 2004
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The Messenger said:
The NHLPA has suggested of Starting up a Players only league .. Where Marty Brodeur. Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton , Chris Pronger etc invest their own Money and start up Super League ..

While the NHL goes with replacement players in 30 arena's made up of unsigned AHLers and ECHL players.

I wonder which Hockey the majority of Fans will support and watch .. Certainly I believe the NHLPA supporter fans will go with the players .. How many Pro-owner fans will ???


Where would they play? The NHL has all of the leases with the main arenas.
 

Mess

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Jaded-Fan said:
Where would they play? The NHL has all of the leases with the main arenas.
What do you mean ??

There are more then 30 Arena's in North America..

Where was the WHA going to play ..

Hamilton, Winnipeg , Quebec, etc etc etc ..

Even the NHL Cities now have alternate arena's .. All the AHL Arena, ECHL CHL that are not the same .. There is no shortage of Arena's ..
 

barnburner

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Apr 23, 2004
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The Messenger said:
The NHLPA has suggested of Starting up a Players only league .. Where Marty Brodeur. Joe Sakic, Mats Sundin, Joe Thornton , Chris Pronger etc invest their own Money and start up Super League ..

While the NHL goes with replacement players in 30 arena's made up of unsigned AHLers and ECHL players.

I wonder which Hockey the majority of Fans will support and watch .. Certainly I believe the NHLPA supporter fans will go with the players .. How many Pro-owner fans will ???

That's so much bs from the NHLPA. Regardless, if it were to happen - I absolutely would refuse to go watch any such super league. I will not reward these primma donnas for their total disregard for the game and the fans.
I will however, make it a point to go watch nhl replacement players, if they are used, as a statement to the NHLPA.
 

Motown Beatdown

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I support the players mainly because i dont see the a hard cap as the only way to save the NHL. I dont have a problem with a salary cap i would support the NHL under it. But it's not gonna save small market teams by it's self. The NHL owners refuse to work as partners themselves. Until they are willing to be meaningful partners with each other they come off as a bunch of hypocrites. They want to use a cap modeled after the NFL, just wont pay to make it work. And when i say pay i mean the biggest markets pay to make sure the small markets are on an equal footing in terms of revenue.
 

ladybugblue

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May 5, 2004
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barnburner said:
That's so much bs from the NHLPA. Regardless, if it were to happen - I absolutely would refuse to go watch any such super league. I will not reward these primma donnas for their total disregard for the game and the fans.
I will however, make it a point to go watch nhl replacement players, if they are used, as a statement to the NHLPA.

Here here... :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:
 

caps

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Feb 3, 2005
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i think both the nhl and the nhlpa both suck ass. i hope they bring on replacement players, guys who are playing the game for the game, not for how much they are getting paid.
 
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