Why do the players despise Gary Bettman?

Status
Not open for further replies.

arnie

Registered User
Dec 20, 2004
520
0
Brewleaguer said:
AND that he has a NBA background on his resume'. And expansion in to weak markets. And in changes to the game rules which has made it more difficult to play the game. And etc..... I don't really think it's becasue he is American though.

This is al nonsense.

"AND that he has a NBA background on his resume'? So what? After 10 yeares, he knows the game as well as anybody.

"And expansion in to weak markets" He was doing exactly whjat the owners brought him in to do. Get teams across the US so that they could get a big TV contract. It is not his fault that the strategy failed.

"And in changes to the game rules." Name one significant rule that he has changed?

" I don't really think it's becasue he is American though." Buzz wrong. There is a constant flow out of Canada about hockey being ruined by New York lawyers.
 

CarlRacki

Registered User
Feb 9, 2004
1,442
2
The Messenger said:
Agents stand firm behind `brilliant' Bob's leadership

PLayers think Goodenow is the MAN !!!

In fact, Edmonton-based agent Ritch Winter was downright zealous in his support of Goodenow.


"It's clear that everybody in that room is on the same page as Bob Goodenow," Winter said, "because (NHL commissioner) Gary Bettman's proposal will kill the game of hockey and he doesn't understand.

And Bob's brilliant approach to negotiations — historically and at present — will save our game and I can only hope at some point the owners will wake up and pay attention and really understand what's at play here because it's clear there is no way we can follow the path that the NHL has laid out. If we do, we'll annihilate what's left of the product."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1109803812367&call_pageid=1044442959412&col=1044442957278&DPL=IvsNDS%2f7ChAX&tacodalogin=yes

So let's see here ... the agents, who rely on the whims of hockey players and their players association for their livelihoods, are taking the players' side in a labor dispute.
What a stunning turn of events.
 

CarlRacki

Registered User
Feb 9, 2004
1,442
2
Wetcoaster said:
It is not just the players and he has been criticized for a number of years, long before this dispute.

Back when the NHL hired Gary Bettman away from the NBA, Orlando Magic GM Pat Williams wondered how Bettman would fare as the head of the hockey league.

"I gave Gary a hockey puck once, and he spent the rest of the day trying to open it," Williams is quoted as saying.

Sports Illustrated's Kostya Kennedy summed up the criticism when he wrote this a few years ago: "Bettman is a bottom-line commissioner. He's deeply concerned with generating revenue for his owner-employers, regardless of the cost to the product on the ice."

Or as former Sharks GM Dean Lombardi told Kennedy in that same column: "Of course it's a business but it's also a sport of passion, and we have to acknowledge that. The way this league has become all about selling, selling, selling has taken away some of the fire."

"It's a garage league," Mario Lemieux said five years ago.

Or this from Brett Hull: "The game sucks. It's boring. I would never pay to watch this."

The list of complaints is long.

The league expanded too fast and into many non-traditional hockey markets. There are too many teams and the season is too long. The games are boring because of the trap and clutching and grabbing. The low scoring defensive struggles are driving away fans and failing to attract new ones. Canada lost franchises in both Winnipeg and Quebec. The widening economic gap between big market teams and small market teams is growing and could signal a possible end for more Canadian franchises and some small market teams in the United States. Some say rules changes like moving the nets out from the end boards, eliminating the instigator rule and instituting the two-referee system have hurt the on ice product, not helped it.

Critics even criticize how Bettman handles criticism. They say he ignores facts and puts a positive spin on everything. Throw out a criticism of the game and Bettman will have an answer.

For example, low scoring games?

Bettman's response: "There's no magic about 8-1 games. The fact that 73 per cent of the time games are played within one or two goals or tied tells you that there's a level of excitement and commitment. And I'm not sure who on the politically correct police ever said that the number of goals you score translate into how exciting the game is. I don't buy into that."

It's the same approach he's been taking for years. A few years ago, one of Bettman's "the game is fine" speeches drew this response from Allan Maki of the Toronto Globe and Mail:

"In other words, hockey is fine. Things are good. You see clouds and the perfect analogy, Bettman sees only what he wants to see. It’s always a wonderful life in Bettman’s world. Present population: one."

Wetcoaster:

Would you please stop using that old Pat Williams quote as a serious critique of Bettman's hockey knowledge. Anyone who knows anything about Pat Williams knows he's famous for his one-liners and quips. In fact, he's written a book on one-liners entitled: "Winning with One-Liners : 3,400 Hilarious Laugh Lines to Tickle Your Funny Bone and Spice Up Your Speeches."
By trying to convince us that Williams was doing anything other than making a funny you're either being wholly disingenuine or really dumb. You pick.

Also, would you expect the NHL commissioner to publicly state "The game sucks. Please don't watch it"? Of course not. Do actors go on Letterman to promote their movies by saying "It's a bore and I gave a half-ass performance"? Do CEOs at shareholder meetings say "Our company's products are terrible and we have no future"?
 

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
86,912
11,862
Leafs Home Board
CarlRacki said:
So let's see here ... the agents, who rely on the whims of hockey players and their players association for their livelihoods, are taking the players' side in a labor dispute.
What a stunning turn of events.
Not just taking their sides ... Promoting Unity among the Players and ensuring resolve and strong united front remains by going on the record and saying they will not negotiate a contract for a scab/replacement player ..

So for a player to cross a future picket line .. he will have to go against his union and be disbarred from the association for life and drop his player agent and find a non NHLPA certified one to get him a NHL contract or negotiate one himself ..

Seems like a lot of hassle to me ..
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
CarlRacki said:
Wetcoaster:

Would you please stop using that old Pat Williams quote as a serious critique of Bettman's hockey knowledge. Anyone who knows anything about Pat Williams knows he's famous for his one-liners and quips. In fact, he's written a book on one-liners entitled: "Winning with One-Liners : 3,400 Hilarious Laugh Lines to Tickle Your Funny Bone and Spice Up Your Speeches."

By trying to convince us that Williams was doing anything other than making a funny you're either being wholly disingenuine or really dumb. You pick.

Also, would you expect the NHL commissioner to publicly state "The game sucks. Please don't watch it"? Of course not. Do actors go on Letterman to promote their movies by saying "It's a bore and I gave a half-ass performance"? Do CEOs at shareholder meetings say "Our company's products are terrible and we have no future"?

No, I think I will continue to use the quote but thank you for your unwanted advice.

A third possibility is that it was not a joke and was an accurate commentary on Bettman's lack of hockey knowledge.

I think I will take door number three, Monty.

The point is that Bettman cannot see the problems with game and appears to lack the leadership to do anything about it if he did.
 

wazee

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
1,140
0
Visit site
The Messenger said:
Seems like a lot of hassle to me
It is far less hassle to follow along meekly while your union kills the goose that laid the golden egg. Doing what is easy is not always wise.
 

David Puddy

Registered User
Nov 15, 2003
5,824
2
New Jersey, USA
Visit site
zeppelin97 said:
What has Bettman done for the league? A lucrative tv deal? You mean the non-guaranteed NBC deal? Being the first commisioner to lockout a sport for an entire season?
No! The ABC/ESPN deal paid $600 million over five seasons. The NHL didn't have a national TV deal (other than All-Star Games) before Bettman got the Fox deal. The NBC deal isn't anything great, but at least the NHL stood to make some money. Also, it is highly disingenuous of you to only cite the NBC deal.

zeppelin97 said:
If the NHL can win a good CBA does that solve the quality of the game issues? Will ratings continue to plummet?
Plummet from what? The NHL has not had good ratings since 1994-95 when it once again had a US network deal, and ratings can't be compared to the mid-1970's landscape, when most people had seven stations from which to chose, no dvd/vhs/beta and virtually no video games. I suspect the ratings were not too good back then or else someone would have broadcast at least the Stanley Cup Finals past 1974.

zeppelin97 said:
Sure, Goodenow can be blamed for greed, but so can Bettman (both sides are trying to get most $$$ out of the CBA). Of course Goodenow has NO power over the NHL game, and its quality.
Is it greed to try to actually earn some money instead of losing money every year? Even if you go by the Forbes numbers and dismiss the Levit Report, the NHL teams are collectively losing money.

X8oD said:
Lower Player demands result in lower ticket prices
BlackRedGold said:
Spoken like someone who's never taken any courses on economics.

Completely backwards.
Perhaps you're correct BlackRedGold. But higher player demands certainly has led to higher ticket prices.

The Messenger said:
Seems like a lot of hassle to me ..
Come on the Messenger, try thinkig outside the box.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
John Flyers Fan said:
How many actual holdouts has the league seen over the last 6 years ???

Havlat, Gaborik, Yashin, Fedorov, Allison, Niedermayer .....

An average of maybe one per season ....
The only holdout was Yashin.

All others were restricted free agents and that was their only option other than those who qualify for arbitration.
 

CarlRacki

Registered User
Feb 9, 2004
1,442
2
Wetcoaster said:
No, I think I will continue to use the quote but thank you for your unwanted advice.

A third possibility is that it was not a joke and was an accurate commentary on Bettman's lack of hockey knowledge.

I think I will take door number three, Monty.

The point is that Bettman cannot see the problems with game and appears to lack the leadership to do anything about it if he did.

My point is you're incredibly dishonest by using that Williams quote out of context. Continue to use it if you see fit (because no one has tired of it from your 38 prior usages), but it does nothing but make you less credible.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
CarlRacki said:
My point is you're incredibly dishonest by using that Williams quote out of context. Continue to use it if you see fit (because no one has tired of it from your 38 prior usages), but it does nothing but make you less credible.
How is it out of context????? It seems completely in context - it is commentary on Bettman's perceived lack of understanding of the game of hockey which is a criticism levelled against him by any number of people.

Seems totally in context to me. YMMV
 

David Puddy

Registered User
Nov 15, 2003
5,824
2
New Jersey, USA
Visit site
John Flyers Fan said:
How many actual holdouts has the league seen over the last 6 years ???

Havlat, Gaborik, Yashin, Fedorov, Allison, Niedermayer .....

An average of maybe one per season ....
Wetcoaster said:
The only holdout was Yashin.

All others were restricted free agents and that was their only option other than those who qualify for arbitration.
Those are holdouts. See this story, "Wild's Gaborik Changes Agents Amid Holdout"Yashin was a breach of contract. Holdout has always been applied to players with expired contracts to teams that still held the rights to that players services

You can add Comrie, McLaren, Nabokov, Anson Carter, Nolan, Khabibulin, Arnott and Elias to your list of holdouts, plus Niedermayer a second time (start of 1998-99 and 2000-01 seasons.)

Here is a CNNSI.com article from early-October 2000 I came across. That's less than six years ago and it details more than "an average of maybe one per season."
 

myrocketsgotcracked

Guest
Wetcoaster said:
Or as former Sharks GM Dean Lombardi told Kennedy in that same column: "Of course it's a business but it's also a sport of passion, and we have to acknowledge that. The way this league has become all about selling, selling, selling has taken away some of the fire."
i dont know about you, but i think they are forced into focusing on selling when salary skyrocket in the last 10-15 years. if they are already losing money paying the players now, how are they going to come up with the $1.8M average salary to the players if they didnt "become all about selling, selling, selling"?
 

YellHockey*

Guest
David Puddy said:
Perhaps you're correct BlackRedGold. But higher player demands certainly has led to higher ticket prices.

Only if you're gullible enough to believe the NHL owners.

If you want to believe unbiased economists, then you'll think otherwise. If your premise were true then there is absolutely no need for a lockout. The owners can just increase their ticket prices and pay the players.

Unfortunately, a little concept called "consumer demand" prevents that from happening.
 

Cawz

Registered User
Sep 18, 2003
14,372
3
Oiler fan in Calgary
Visit site
Sammy said:
No, he only cites a bunch of quotes about clutching & grabbing & the quality of game to back up up his ridiculous implication that the reason the game is bad is because of Bettman.
Well, that is the title of the thread. Why do the players despise Bettman? Because there are problems in the league and its easiest to blame one person. Just like all terrorism will stop if Osama is caught, right?

The players hate Bettman because of ridiculous implications, just like the simpleton-esque post you are referring to. Thats a perfect example. Somethings wrong - blame Bettman.
 

Wetcoaster

Guest
David Puddy said:
Those are holdouts. See this story, "Wild's Gaborik Changes Agents Amid Holdout"Yashin was a breach of contract. Holdout has always been applied to players with expired contracts to teams that still held the rights to that players services

You can add Comrie, McLaren, Nabokov, Anson Carter, Nolan, Khabibulin, Arnott and Elias to your list of holdouts, plus Niedermayer a second time (start of 1998-99 and 2000-01 seasons.)

Here is a CNNSI.com article from early-October 2000 I came across. That's less than six years ago and it details more than "an average of maybe one per season."
Since they are not under contract what are they holding out from?
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
Wetcoaster said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Puddy
Those are holdouts. See this story, "Wild's Gaborik Changes Agents Amid Holdout"Yashin was a breach of contract. Holdout has always been applied to players with expired contracts to teams that still held the rights to that players services

You can add Comrie, McLaren, Nabokov, Anson Carter, Nolan, Khabibulin, Arnott and Elias to your list of holdouts, plus Niedermayer a second time (start of 1998-99 and 2000-01 seasons.)

Here is a CNNSI.com article from early-October 2000 I came across. That's less than six years ago and it details more than "an average of maybe one per season."

Since they are not under contract what are they holding out from?

It's really a matter of terminology. Yes they were RFAs, not under contract, and under no obligation to sign. However, "holdout" has been commonly used in that situation, and I beleive that a majority of fans and the media reffered to those situations as holdouts.

But the fact remains that those situations were fundamentally different from the Yashin case, so call Havlat, Gaborik, Fedorov, Allison, Niedermayer, et al holdouts if you will, but do not lump them in with Alexei Yashin.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->