Who's the best player in this tournament; Crosby, Bergeron, or Ovechkin?

[ZombieMatt]

I personally feel that going into this tournament, some of the shine was starting to fall over Crosby because people were seeing his stats and didn't think they were as ridiculous as they should have been.

Ironically, it's now the same detractors who say that his stats thus far in the WJC do not mean he's anything all that special. And, in fairness, this viewpoint is correct, but the mistake is in the failure to recognize Crosby's ALL AROUND game to begin with.

Sidney Crosby has, I believe, demonstrated in this tournament "what the big deal is." He not only leads the tournament in goals, and is on pace to score about 15 points in the tournament (presuming Canada continues to win games), but has been all around dominant. He has been an aggressive and extremely effective fore checker. When his line loses control of the puck in the offensive zone, I have NEVER seen a player as adept as him in my life at taking the puck from behind and turning around in a split second back towards the net. He may be 5'10", but he's rock solid on his skates and not only can take a player leaning heavily on him, but can control the puck and make appropriate passes in that situation.

I feel that the "Peter Forsberg" comparison is more than fair. Except, the difference is, Crosby is the furthest thing from a diver (and needs to work more on his defensive zone coverage). Crosby loves the adversity. I think he ENJOYS the fact that he is hacked, cross checked, roughed up after every play, high sticked, idiots are taking runs at his knees every other game (i don't mean just Cabana, that sort of thing is par for the course for this kid). He wants to take the crap, and then rub his opponents faces in hit when he scores one and sets up three more tap ins. When he got that penalty yesterday (I thought it was an awful call, what was the consensus on that?), there was no doubt he was going to make a statement in the game afterwards.

Is he the second coming of Wayne Gretzky? No, I don't think so. But he is, in my opinion, more impressive as a 17 year old in this tournament than any other player currently in this event regardless of age.

 

[Panopticon]

Were those his stats? That is pretty good. and his team was very talented that year.

Impressive also that Crosby has those exact stats half way through his 17 year old tournament.

Again, playin in a totally different tournament against totally different opponents. Canada hasn't even been challenged yet, but Russia was that year.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Why isn't Bergeron getting any hype?? That guy is seriously awesome.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Ovechkin's U20 stats:

15 GP 14 G 5 A 19 PTS 1.2 points per game

Crosby's U20 stats:

9 GP 8 G 4 A 12 PTS 1.3 points per game

the only advantage Crosby has had over Ovechkin is points per game, and it's not a very big one, especially considering Ovechkin doesn't play for the greatest team in hockey.

 

[markov`]

So you're saying, that Ovechkin (who played with worse linemates, and in a team, that was nowhere near as dominant as team Canada this year) was invisible. I wonder how he scored 6+1=7 points then. Tied for the best goal scorer in that tournament if I remember correctly.

Pretty funny that Crosby have the same stats, at the same age but in just 3 games.

Worse linemates? Huh... hold on. Russia won the tournament that year. So shut up.

Why can't people get over it. Crosby is better than Ovechkin. Ovechkin is gonna be a helluva player but will never be as valuable to his team as Crosby.

And to the idiot who says that everybody would have scored Crosby goals... :lol :lol

Did you saw his two goals against Sweden? Yes he was in the same spot, but he scored one with absolutely NO angle and the other one with a defenseman on his back. You could do that I guess.

 

[markov`]

Ovechkin's U20 stats:

15 GP 14 G 5 A 19 PTS 1.2 points per game

Crosby's U20 stats:

9 GP 8 G 4 A 12 PTS 1.3 points per game

the only advantage Crosby has had over Ovechkin is points per game, and it's not a very big one, especially considering Ovechkin doesn't play for the greatest team in hockey.

:lol

Please stop! I can't stop laughing.

Are you really saying that Ovechkin is better because he has more goals as a 17, 18 and 19 years old than Crosby as a 16 and 17 years old?

If your point is that Ovechkin this year is better than Crosby last year, than you are correct. But Ovechkin is 19 and Crosby was 16, so it doesn't mean much.

And it is pretty ironically that people are saying he gets all his point because he plays on the top line, because it is the complete opposite. Do you see HOW Crosby gets whacked? His line is the best of the tournament and they always plays against the best defenseman. Crosby would have more point by playing in another line I believe, but it is only speculation I agree.

 

[markov`]

Another thing... when we talk about the 2003 Russian Team, and bring the possibility that Canada was a better team, it is impossible. Russia was the best team.

But when we talk about Ovechkin in the 2003 Russian team, his linemates were weak.

What's the point? Russia had a strong or a weak team?

 

[MOGiLNY]

Another thing... when we talk about the 2003 Russian Team, and bring the possibility that Canada was a better team, it is impossible. Russia was the best team.

But when we talk about Ovechkin in the 2003 Russian team, his linemates were weak.

What's the point? Russia had a strong or a weak team?

Who said that?

 

[MOGiLNY]

:lol

Please stop! I can't stop laughing.

Are you really saying that Ovechkin is better because he has more goals as a 17, 18 and 19 years old than Crosby as a 16 and 17 years old?

If your point is that Ovechkin this year is better than Crosby last year, than you are correct. But Ovechkin is 19 and Crosby was 16, so it doesn't mean much.

And it is pretty ironically that people are saying he gets all his point because he plays on the top line, because it is the complete opposite. Do you see HOW Crosby gets whacked? His line is the best of the tournament and they always plays against the best defenseman. Crosby would have more point by playing in another line I believe, but it is only speculation I agree.

I never said that Ovechkin is better than Crosby because he has more goals. I merely said that Crosby's only advantage on Ovechkin is his PPG, but even there, it's a .1 difference.

The reason why I like Ovechkin more than I do Crosby is because Ovechkin is a much more physical player, backchecks effectively and is still a scoring machine.

Ovechkin or Bergeron would be a much tougher decision for me though.

 

[markov`]

So you're saying, that Ovechkin (who played with worse linemates, and in a team, that was nowhere near as dominant as team Canada this year) was invisible. I wonder how he scored 6+1=7 points then. Tied for the best goal scorer in that tournament if I remember correctly.

He said that.

 

[markov`]

I never said that Ovechkin is better than Crosby because he has more goals. I merely said that Crosby's only advantage on Ovechkin is his PPG, but even there, it's a .1 difference.

The reason why I like Ovechkin more than I do Crosby is because Ovechkin is a much more physical player, backchecks effectively and is still a scoring machine.

Ovechkin or Bergeron would be a much tougher decision for me though.

Have you ever seen Crosby play? He's a good defensive player and doesn't shy from the physical play. In fact, he's stronger on the puck than Ovechkin.

The stats that you provided only prove one thing: even while 2 years younger, Crosby is producing more than Ovechkin. Plus Crosby isn't a primadonna and doesn't have the attitude of Ovechkin.

If Crosby was Russian he would be better than Gretzky. I'm sure of it.

 

[Diaboli]

Worse linemates? Huh... hold on. Russia won the tournament that year. So shut up.

:lol

So what you're saying, that Ovechkin's linemates in the 2003 WJC couldn't have been better than Crosby's this year, 'cause Russia won the WJC's two years ago?

And you're also saying (or just implying?), that Team Russia in the 2003 WJC's couldn't have been worse, than Team Canada in this years WJC's, 'cause Russia won two years ago?

Russia won SWIITZERLAND 7-5! That's right! Switzerland! The only real walk through game for Russia in that tournament was Belarus, which they won 5-1. That was also their biggest won by margin, with the game against Slovakia (was it 4-0 or 5-1, not sure). The point is, that the teams were MORE EQUAL. Russia, Canada, Czechs, Finland, USA and even Slovakia to some point, were a lot more competitive. In this tournament (again) no one has yet even challenged Canada. And probably won't before semi-finals.

So please, do us all a favor, and stop cracking us up like that

 

[ZombieMatt]

Ovechkin's U20 stats:

15 GP 14 G 5 A 19 PTS 1.2 points per game

Crosby's U20 stats:

9 GP 8 G 4 A 12 PTS 1.3 points per game

the only advantage Crosby has had over Ovechkin is points per game, and it's not a very big one, especially considering Ovechkin doesn't play for the greatest team in hockey.

Oh yeah, and Crosby has done all this a full year younger than AO. I'm not taking anything away from Ovechkin, who is an outstanding talent in his own right, just pointing out the obvious thing you're overlooking.

 

[markov`]

Look. Let's make the only TRUE comparision with can make so far.

Alexander Ovechkin U20 as a 17 years old

6 goals, 1 assist for 7 points in 6 games

Sidney Crosby U20 as a 17 years old

6 goals, 1 assist for 7 points in 3 games

Both played in very good teams. Let's see how Crosby finish the tournament but at the same age Crosby outscore Ovechkin.

Heck, even two years younger, Crosby outscore Ovechkin. But you're still brave enough to go out and saying Ovechkin is better by comparing their statistics.

 

[markov`]

:lol

So what you're saying, that Ovechkin's linemates in the 2003 WJC couldn't have been better than Crosby's this year, 'cause Russia won the WJC's two years ago?

And you're also saying (or just implying?), that Team Russia in the 2003 WJC's couldn't have been worse, than Team Canada in this years WJC's, 'cause Russia won two years ago?

Russia won SWIITZERLAND 7-5! That's right! Switzerland! The only real walk through game for Russia in that tournament was Belarus, which they won 5-1. That was also their biggest won by margin, with the game against Slovakia (was it 4-0 or 5-1, not sure). The point is, that the teams were MORE EQUAL. Russia, Canada, Czechs, Finland, USA and even Slovakia to some point, were a lot more competitive. In this tournament (again) no one has yet even challenged Canada. And probably won't before semi-finals.

So please, do us all a favor, and stop cracking us up like that

If Crosby had 10 points against Germany your argument would make sense.

Actually it doesn't.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Have you ever seen Crosby play? He's a good defensive player and doesn't shy from the physical play. In fact, he's stronger on the puck than Ovechkin.

The stats that you provided only prove one thing: even while 2 years younger, Crosby is producing more than Ovechkin. Plus Crosby isn't a primadonna and doesn't have the attitude of Ovechkin.

If Crosby was Russian he would be better than Gretzky. I'm sure of it.

Nope, some people here have never seen Crosby play. If they have, they wouldnt say Ovechkin is better then Crosby. Crosby is just pure awesome. As if right now, non Bias oppionon, Crosby is better then Ovechkin.

When Ovechkin was 17, 2 years, ago, I never heard of him. Honestly speaking. I never heard of that guy. Dont give us that crap, Crosby is only lighting it up because hes surrounded by good players. Ovechkin is not? As a 17 year old, didnt he win a gold meddle? Russia does not have a strong team? Also dont give us the excuse, Crosby have better teamates and is on a stronger team then Russia. Russia is also a contender for gold, so dont say anything like Alexander is on a weak team. Hes not on a weak team.
You guys have to take off your "Ovechkin" Glasses.

 

[markov`]

Nope, some people here have never seen Crosby play. If they have, they wouldnt say Ovechkin is better then Crosby. Crosby is just pure awesome. As if right now, non Bias oppionon, Crosby is better then Ovechkin.

When Ovechkin was 17, 2 years, ago, I never heard of him. Honestly speaking. I never heard of that guy. Dont give us that crap, Crosby is only lighting it up because hes surrounded by good players. Ovechkin is not? As a 17 year old, didnt he win a gold meddle? Russia does not have a strong team? Also dont give us the excuse, Crosby have better teamates and is on a stronger team then Russia. Russia is also a contender for gold, so dont say anything like Alexander is on a weak team. Hes not on a weak team.
You guys have to take off your "Ovechkin" Glasses.

Ovechkin was highly touted as the 2004 1st round pick since he is 16 I think, but the hype is not similar to the Crosby's hype.

Yeah, it should be time for them to put off their Ovechkin glasses. I mean they really think all of Crosby's 6 goals are only because of Bergeron. Even Bergeron himself wouldn't say that.

 

[AgentNaslund*]

Nope, some people here have never seen Crosby play. If they have, they wouldnt say Ovechkin is better then Crosby. Crosby is just pure awesome. As if right now, non Bias oppionon, Crosby is better then Ovechkin.

When Ovechkin was 17, 2 years, ago, I never heard of him. Honestly speaking. I never heard of that guy. Dont give us that crap, Crosby is only lighting it up because hes surrounded by good players. Ovechkin is not? As a 17 year old, didnt he win a gold meddle? Russia does not have a strong team? Also dont give us the excuse, Crosby have better teamates and is on a stronger team then Russia. Russia is also a contender for gold, so dont say anything like Alexander is on a weak team. Hes not on a weak team.
You guys have to take off your "Ovechkin" Glasses.

Heck, even two years younger, Crosby outscore Ovechkin. But you're still brave enough to go out and saying Ovechkin is better by comparing their statistics.

Hes ignorant and biased. Hes the type of fan that will never amit something even if its true.

 

[Diaboli]

If Crosby had 10 points against Germany your argument would make sense.

Actually it doesn't.

Like you probably understood from my post, is that your comparisons weren't really that good nor valid. So to me it does make a lot of sense.

Note for all you Crosby homers: I'm not saying that Crosby isn't the better player of the two. Heck, how could I say that after seeing him play ONE game. What I'm trying to show here, that it is just unfair to compare Ovechkin with Crosby by their WJC numbers, since they were/are from different tournaments with completely different teams/lineups.

 

[MOGiLNY]

Have you ever seen Crosby play? He's a good defensive player and doesn't shy from the physical play. In fact, he's stronger on the puck than Ovechkin.

The stats that you provided only prove one thing: even while 2 years younger, Crosby is producing more than Ovechkin. Plus Crosby isn't a primadonna and doesn't have the attitude of Ovechkin.

If Crosby was Russian he would be better than Gretzky. I'm sure of it.

Yes, I've seen Crosby play, and I'm aware of his defense, but you can't tell me he's more physical than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin is a primadonna? Crosby is the one who says he'd play in a replacement league..

As for that last comment about Crosby being Russian, that's stupid. Kovalchuk is Russian and I can't stand him..

 

[markov`]

Like you probably understood from my post, is that your comparisons weren't really that good nor valid. So to me it does make a lot of sense.

Note for all you Crosby homers: I'm not saying that Crosby isn't the better player of the two. Heck, how could I say that after seeing him play ONE game. What I'm trying to show here, that it is just unfair to compare Ovechkin with Crosby by their WJC numbers, since they were/are from different tournaments with completely different teams/lineups.

Than the WJC stats doesn't mean anything for any player. Right?

No. Just no.

If Crosby had like, 1 point more than Ovechkin actually it wouldn't mean anything. But if he keeps this pace, he will double Ovechkin's production as a 17 years old. Even if Crosby played with Gretzky and Lemieux, it would mean something.

 

[Diaboli]

Hes ignorant and biased. Hes the type of fan that will never amit something even if its true.

And you aren't, and you're saying Ovechkin was invisible in the 2003 WJC's?

BTW, if you never heard of Ovechkin when he was 17, you've just been really out of the radar. Plus I'd say it's A BIT easier to get to the spotlight in Canada than in Russia. There are still TONS of raw talent somewhere in Siperia waiting to be found. You think that would be possible in Canada?

 

[markov`]

Yes, I've seen Crosby play, and I'm aware of his defense, but you can't tell me he's more physical than Ovechkin.

Ovechkin is a primadonna? Crosby is the one who says he'd play in a replacement league..

As for that last comment about Crosby being Russian, that's stupid. Kovalchuk is Russian and I can't stand him..

I don't see why Crosby is a primadonna because he wants to play in the NHL.

Maybe he doesn't throw huge hits like Ovechkin but his physical game is more effective. I rarely seen Crosby knocked off the puck.

If Crosby was Russian he would be better than Gretzky. He would have dominated the RSL much more than Ovechkin and people would be saying, if he was in the QJMHL, he would breaks Lemieux records!

 

[Chaos]

If Crosby was Russian he would be better than Gretzky. He would have dominated the RSL much more than Ovechkin and people would be saying, if he was in the QJMHL, he would breaks Lemieux records!

This may be the funniest thing I have seen said in this thread. Not taking anything away from Crosby's talent level, but a 5'10, 185lb player simply would not dominate in a mens league. Take off those Crosby glasses for just one second there.

 

[Diaboli]

Than the WJC stats doesn't mean anything for any player. Right?

No. Just no.

If Crosby had like, 1 point more than Ovechkin actually it wouldn't mean anything. But if he keeps this pace, he will double Ovechkin's production as a 17 years old. Even if Crosby played with Gretzky and Lemieux, it would mean something.

No, but now we're at least getting somewhere. If Crosby can double Ovechkin's stats, it'll be awesome. As I said in the previous post. Russia had ONE easy game in 2003. Canada has already had 3, with probably one more to go with Finland. They will have to play against a tough team for the first time in the semi-final. At least that's what I think.

It seems that you don't think that Russia had tougher competition in 2003, than Canada has now, right?

BTW: If Crosby played with Lemieux and Gretzky it wouldn't mean anything.