Who's the best all-time non-Canadian hockey player?

[Hyped]

I think it's too difficult to try to say who the best player was without first separating them by which position they played. When this is done, I think it's a no-brainer in all three positions:

Forward - Valeri Kharlamov

Defenseman - Slava Fetisov

Goaltender - Vladislav Tretiak

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I think it's too difficult to try to say who the best player was without first separating them by which position they played. When this is done, I think it's a no-brainer in all three positions:

Forward - Valeri Kharlamov

Defenseman - Slava Fetisov

Goaltender - Vladislav Tretiak

I'll take Hasek over Tretiak in a hearbeat. Agreed on Fetisov. Forward is the toughest decision.

 

[Frightened Inmate #2]

wow, Stastny is getting overlooked I think.

Wow most every Russian to play the game is getting overlooked.

Kharlamov - Stastny - Jagr
Krutov - Larionov - Makarov
Nedomansky - Fedorov - Kurri
Jiri Holik - Forsberg - Mikhailov
Vladimir Martinec

Fetisov - Lidstrom
Leetch - Salming
Chelios - Lutchenko
Ragulin - Howe

Hasek
Tretiak
Holecek
Dzurilla
Khabibulin

 

[Hyped]

I'll take Hasek over Tretiak in a hearbeat. Agreed on Fetisov. Forward is the toughest decision.

Curious as to who your forward would be? My second choice is Larionov...

 

[John Flyers Fan]

Curious as to who your forward would be? My second choice is Larionov...

It certainly wouldn't be Larionov. When the KLM line was at their peak, Larionov was the weakest of the three (nothing to be shameful about)

IMO Makarov was significantly better than Larionov.

Forwards that would be in the discussion: Kurri, Makarov, Jagr, Stastny and Kharlamov.

 

[FlyersFan10*]

Nobody thinks Hakan Loob was one of the best? If anything, him and Petr Statsny are definitely undervalued here. Statsny still played hockey into his early 40s and didn't look out of place. He truly is one of the all time greats. It's a shame that Loob went back to Sweden after winning the cup with the Flames. He could have probably played another 10 years in the NHL.

As for others talking about Jagr over Kurri, get a grip. Kurri was probably the greatest RW from Europe to play the game. Everyone dismisses his accomplishments because he had Gretzky feeding him the puck. Whatever. Kurri had a blistering shot, was great offensively, but what everyone else fails to remember is that he was lethal when Edmonton was short handed. The guy was probably the best pure goal scorer that Europe ever produced (Teemu Selanne may have scored 76 as a rookie, but he never came close to that number again throughout his career).

 

[iamcaper]

My top 5 would be:

Kharlamov
Tretiak
Hasek
Jagr
Kurri

honourable mention goes out to - Stastny, Larionov, Forsberg, Makarov, and Fetisov

 

[Hyped]

It certainly wouldn't be Larionov. When the KLM line was at their peak, Larionov was the weakest of the three (nothing to be shameful about)

IMO Makarov was significantly better than Larionov.

Forwards that would be in the discussion: Kurri, Makarov, Jagr, Stastny and Kharlamov.

At their peak, I ould agree that Makarov was the best of the three. But Larionov seemed to have the intangibles going for him over Makarov. Hmmmm, the more I think about it, you may be right. Haha. Makarov might be my second choice...

 

[santiclaws]

Tretiak is very overrated. Lots of people give him a lot of props based on rep alone. He was the best Soviet goalie ever--which ain't sayin' much. I watched Tretiak at his peak on a regular basis. He had great reflexes, but was not very good at controlling rebounds. He would've gotten killed in the NHL because he had a tendency to regularly dump rebounds from even weak shots into the middle of the slot. No big deal in Russia, but NHL forwards crashing the net would have buried him (as they did a lot in various NHL-CCCP series).
Hasek's way better. Khabibulin is way better.

 

[Everest]

Statsny needs some love. He was 2nd behind #99 for scoring in the 80's.

 

[Hawker14]

Borje Salming.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Loob, IMO, is the third-best forward ever to come to the NHL from Sweden, after Forsberg and Mats Naslund. The guy was an exceptional goal scorer who left years before he should have. He'd have put up a lot more than one 50-goal season.

I don't understand the lack of respect for Statsny, either. Some people talk about "bloated 80s numbers," but he'd have put up 90-100 points in today's NHL, too.

 

[Everest]

Loob, IMO, is the third-best forward ever to come to the NHL from Sweden, after Forsberg and Mats Naslund. The guy was an exceptional goal scorer who left years before he should have. He'd have put up a lot more than one 50-goal season.

I don't understand the lack of respect for Statsny, either. Some people talk about "bloated 80s numbers," but he'd have put up 90-100 points in today's NHL, too.

Bloated or not...he still outscored a lot of guys who people hear about waaay more than him. He's a terrific story too.
...and if we're going to start talking about Hakan Loob and not cough up the name Kent Nillsson...well...99 believed Kent Nillsson was the most skill he ever saw in a single player.

 

[barfy2000]

as to the debate about kurri or jagr, personally, having seen both, i would take jagr in a heartbeat. kurri may beat him defensively, but players with jagrs offensive abilities wrapped into one package are one in a million.

Regular Season Playoffs
GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
Kurri:
NHL Totals 1251 601 797 1398 545 200 106 127 233 123
NHL AWARDS: 1 Lady Byng

Jagr:
NHL Totals 1027 537 772 1309 699 146 67 87 154 123
NHL AWARDS: 5 Art Ross, 2 Lester B. Pearson, 1 Hart

According to these stats, Kurri has a PPG avg of 1.12, whereas Jagrs PPG is 1.27. Not only that, but the two played a majority of their hockey in different eras. Jagr managed to dominate oppositions during the 1990s-2000s, when it has been significantly harder to score and he is still doing it. Being Lemieux's right hand man for most of his career may have helped, but Jagr still put up 127 points in 98-99 while Lemieux was retired. I have no doubt in my mind that if Jagr played most of his time on Gretzky's line in Edmonton during the 80's, that he would have only added to Wayne's numbers, and Gretzky would look even more godlike today.


BTW, I'd take Jagr.
HM to Forsberg, Sundin, Lidstrom, Kurri, and all members of Russia's Big 5.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

At their peak, I ould agree that Makarov was the best of the three. But Larionov seemed to have the intangibles going for him over Makarov. Hmmmm, the more I think about it, you may be right. Haha. Makarov might be my second choice...

Larionov adapted to capitalism in the Western way of life far better than Makarov and Krutov.

I think they'd all have been able to play in the NHL from 18 on Makarov would have rivaled Bossy as the best RW of the 1980's.

Krutov was more like Bure, just a pure goal scoring machine.

Larionov was more in the background, the defensive presence. The glue that held the line together.

 

[Le Golie]

Does Brett Hull count? Because if he does, he is one of the best non-Canadians ever for sure. He'll have over 750 goals soon and 1400 points soon.

As for Hasek vs. Tretiak, it's not even close. Hasek has a great international record and was the best the NHL has seen in a long time. Tretiak's resume and even his ability fall far behind.

 

[KOVALEV10*]

Tretiak is very overrated. Lots of people give him a lot of props based on rep alone. He was the best Soviet goalie ever--which ain't sayin' much. I watched Tretiak at his peak on a regular basis. He had great reflexes, but was not very good at controlling rebounds. He would've gotten killed in the NHL because he had a tendency to regularly dump rebounds from even weak shots into the middle of the slot. No big deal in Russia, but NHL forwards crashing the net would have buried him (as they did a lot in various NHL-CCCP series).
Hasek's way better. Khabibulin is way better.

LMAO Khabilbulin better then Tretiak. Not only better but way better? Him with the huge ass pads compared to Tretiak. Khabibulin isn't even close.

 

[chooch*]

October 19 - Guy Lafleur is Gilles-Villeneuve museum Banquet - President of Honor !

Guy Lafleur has confirmed that he is proud to be the President of Honor for the 2002 edition of Gilles-Villeneuve museum annual banquet.

Back in the eighties, both Lafleur and Villeneuve were the most popular sports personalities in Quebec. They were also good friends. Both men met many times in the late 70's and early 80's when both athlete were at the peak of their careers. Lafleur even travelled to France as a guest of Gilles to attend the 1980 French Grand Prix. This year, the annual banquet will take place again at the Inter-Continental Hotel, downtown Montreal on Tuesday November 12.

Every guest attending the banquet will receive a souvenir photograph of Guy and Gilles (seen above). The Berthierville native was showing his formula Atlantic to Lafleur and a souvenir picture was taken at the occasion. Every picture will bear the original authograph of Mr. Lafleur.

[I will find the pics later this is from jacques.villeneuve.com]

 

[arnie]

arnie ... to say Kurri is not in the same class as Jagr is ludicrous. Kurri was a better defensive player, had a better shot, and understood the the game at a better level.. jagr was a better stickhandler, much stronger on the puck, and was bigger. Kurri's 5 best years were superior to Jagrs 5 best so that particular point doesnt warrant any credentials. They were both good. very good

Kurri took feeds from Gretzky. Jagr makes things happen. He won scoring championships playing with Kip Miller, for heaven's sake. Kurri played in a nonchecking wide open era of high scoring, Jagr played in the trap era of low scoring. So you cannot compare absolute numbers.

The notion that Kurri played defense is so laughable that I won't even bother responding. Oops. I just did.

 

[arnie]

as to the debate about kurri or jagr, personally, having seen both, i would take jagr in a heartbeat. kurri may beat him defensively, but players with jagrs offensive abilities wrapped into one package are one in a million.

Regular Season Playoffs
GP G A Pts PIM GP G A Pts PIM
Kurri:
NHL Totals 1251 601 797 1398 545 200 106 127 233 123
NHL AWARDS: 1 Lady Byng

Jagr:
NHL Totals 1027 537 772 1309 699 146 67 87 154 123
NHL AWARDS: 5 Art Ross, 2 Lester B. Pearson, 1 Hart

According to these stats, Kurri has a PPG avg of 1.12, whereas Jagrs PPG is 1.27. Not only that, but the two played a majority of their hockey in different eras. Jagr managed to dominate oppositions during the 1990s-2000s, when it has been significantly harder to score and he is still doing it. Being Lemieux's right hand man for most of his career may have helped, but Jagr still put up 127 points in 98-99 while Lemieux was retired. I have no doubt in my mind that if Jagr played most of his time on Gretzky's line in Edmonton during the 80's, that he would have only added to Wayne's numbers, and Gretzky would look even more godlike today.


BTW, I'd take Jagr.
HM to Forsberg, Sundin, Lidstrom, Kurri, and all members of Russia's Big 5.

You forgot the most important thing. Jagr did it all playing with Kip Miller!

 

[cassius]

Jagr takes it easily in my opinion.

He is easily one of the most consistant offensive threats in the league. His track record speaks for itself.

 

[kenabnrmal]

(Teemu Selanne may have scored 76 as a rookie, but he never came close to that number again throughout his career).

Sure, he was just one of the league's best forwards of the 90's. I'd still probably take Kurri over him, but disparaging Selanne's goal scoring and offensive ability based on his inability to get back to 76 is rather short sighted.

 

[CRUNK JUICE]

Nobody thinks Hakan Loob was one of the best? If anything, him and Petr Statsny are definitely undervalued here. Statsny still played hockey into his early 40s and didn't look out of place. He truly is one of the all time greats. It's a shame that Loob went back to Sweden after winning the cup with the Flames. He could have probably played another 10 years in the NHL.

As for others talking about Jagr over Kurri, get a grip. Kurri was probably the greatest RW from Europe to play the game. Everyone dismisses his accomplishments because he had Gretzky feeding him the puck. Whatever. Kurri had a blistering shot, was great offensively, but what everyone else fails to remember is that he was lethal when Edmonton was short handed. The guy was probably the best pure goal scorer that Europe ever produced (Teemu Selanne may have scored 76 as a rookie, but he never came close to that number again throughout his career).

I have to disagree. Jagr is the best RW Europe has produced. In a much lower scoring era, he's already got only 89 fewer points less than Kurri in 224 fewer games. Jagr could easily eclipse Kurri's totals as early as the end of next season and still have played 150 less games. And no matter how many times you dismiss something with "whatever," being a goal scoring winger playing with Gretzky sure as hell didn't hurt Kurri's stats.

 

[Ogopogo*]

I have to disagree. Jagr is the best RW Europe has produced. In a much lower scoring era, he's already got only 89 fewer points less than Kurri in 224 fewer games. Jagr could easily eclipse Kurri's totals as early as the end of next season and still have played 150 less games. And no matter how many times you dismiss something with "whatever," being a goal scoring winger playing with Gretzky sure as hell didn't hurt Kurri's stats.

Kurri is my second favorite player of all time and, I agree, Jagr was definitely better.

 

[JonathanK]

Borje Salming, but probably Pavel Bure or Peter Forsberg if it weren't for their knee and groin injuries.