Who's on your HoF ballot?

[Big Poppa Puck]

Smith is bad, but still not worse than Baines.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

Excluding off the field issues, who is your best eligible player not in the HoF? For my starter I'll take Schilling. For my position player I'll take a guy with this resume:

• 5x All-Star
• 2x World Series
• 11x Gold Glove
• 2x Silver Slugger
• Batting Title
• MVP
• .296 BA
• .384 OPB
• 128 OPS+

 

[robert terwilliger]

keith hernandez will probably get in.

i hate to beat the dead horse but baines getting in doesn't open the door for more guys. it removes the doors, all of the drywall and studs and then you have to install giant garage doors that are big enough to let in all of the guys who were better players than harold baines.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

the fact that guys like bruce sutter and lee smith are in the HOF is ridiculous

if you're inducting those guys then billy wagner better get in because he's far more deserving than the two i mentioned. so is john franco and he's not getting in. at this rate i can't wait to see k-rod, joe nathan, and francisco cordero inducted

I don't think Wagner is even on the ballot anymore, tbh.

I agree with you, though. Wagner should be in over both Smith and Hoffman, imo.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Excluding off the field issues, who is your best eligible player not in the HoF? For my starter I'll take Schilling. For my position player I'll take a guy with this resume:

• 5x All-Star
• 2x World Series
• 11x Gold Glove
• 2x Silver Slugger
• Batting Title
• MVP
• .296 BA
• .384 OPB
• 128 OPS+

Bonds, without any doubt or argument to the contrary.

 

[robert terwilliger]

it's bonds and clemens, btw, hawkman.

one could fashion an argument that they are possibly both themselves top 15 players in the history of the entire game of baseball.

 

[mikeyp24]

Players who arent in for various reasons that based on numbers on the field are no doubt HOF worthy.

Pete Rose- Not in because gambling BUT never bet AGAINST his team meaning his gambling never effected the outcome of a game. The fact he still isnt in when there are plenty of guys who just arent good enough numbers wise to be in and are in is rediculous.

Manny Ramirez- Not in because suspected use. Never tested positive for steroids but did test positive for products you might take cycling off. With or without steroids hitting wise was probably the best RH hitter between 90-10 when it comes to contact, power, and walks having one of the beat eyes period in the box for a hitter in any era.

Albert Belle- His career was ended short due to injuries but the numbers he put up between 93-98 (ish might be a year off but I'm pretty sure it was those 5 years) were as strong or stronger then any hitter has had in a 5yr span. The man is still the only player in history to hit 50hr and 50 doubles in the same season and almost did it twice. Think about how impressive that is... 1 time in the entire 120ish years of baseball with tens of thousands of players and 1 ever hit 50 and 50. He was on the ballot and did recieve votes for a few years but eventually stopped because legal issues. The media and writers HATED Belle because how little he cared for them he just wanted to play baseball and hated the media part even coming to blows with a writer I think. But players have made it in before because early death or retirement I think Belle based on his prime and the numbers posted in that time deserves consideration. Take a player who played 15-17years and divide up the numbers to see what rates they hit at and compare them and I think you will see the picture.



Omar Visquel- nearly 3k hits. Most hits from a Venezuelan born player. Multiple gold gloves but should have easily earned more. He played in the era of the shortstop and guys who were better hitters were getting the gold gloves when Omar was simply flat out playing better D based on the %'s. Jeter and Arod were not better fielders than Omar. Maybe beating him 1 or 2 times sure but the guy should have had at least 8 career GGs.

 

[robert terwilliger]

pete rose isn't in because the hall of fame has declared him permanently ineligible. if you really believe that after all these years he never bet against his team, you deserve to be lied to.

i love manny but he tested positive twice. not tested positive for "something" like ortiz did, he tested positive for drugs that are used in steroid cycling...which is illegal.

albert belle's entire career is an exercise in peak v. longevity. while belle's peak was incredible, he was out of baseball at 33 with numbers synonymous with power hitters come and gone.

omar vizquel is the harold baines of shortstops. he was unremarkably present for two decades and compiled numbers without being a good offensive player (seven out of 24 seasons of an ops+ over 90) and has been largely overrated by people who remember the barehand plays and not the rest. he was a good defensive shortstop. the idea that he was on ozzie smith's level is absolute nonsense.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Disagree with Vizquel stuff

He was just as good as Ozzie Smith defensively and is tied for top fielding % for a SS in ML history

He also is top 50 in hits (2,877) and won 11 gold gloves

He very much is deserving of HOF IMO and should get in as defensive side of game he was every bit as important as guys who get in for offensive performance

Omar Vazquel is very much in same group as HOF such as Luis Aparicio and Ozzie Smith and is very deserving of HOF nod

 

[Terry Yake]

it's a damn shame albert belle isn't in the HOF

he was absolutely dominant throughout almost the entire 90s

 

[robert terwilliger]

he's not on smith's level. he's the definition of a compiler.

 

[Say Hey Kid]

These guys are not on my ballot: Beltran, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lofton, Palmeiro, Jones, Helton, Sheffield, Edmonds, Abreu.

 

[Voight]

Excluding off the field issues, who is your best eligible player not in the HoF? For my starter I'll take Schilling. For my position player I'll take a guy with this resume:

• 5x All-Star
• 2x World Series
• 11x Gold Glove
• 2x Silver Slugger
• Batting Title
• MVP
• .296 BA
• .384 OPB
• 128 OPS+

Bonds/Clemens AINEC

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

it's a damn shame albert belle isn't in the HOF

he was absolutely dominant throughout almost the entire 90s

I wish he would be just so I could see the plaque of him forearm shivering Fernando Vina in the face.

 

[Terry Yake]

I wish he would be just so I could see the plaque of him forearm shivering Fernando Vina in the face.

lol that was awesome

 

[Filthy Dangles]

For Vizquel vs Smith...their offensive numbers look similar on surface until you dig a little deeper. Per Fangraphs 'Off' which says how many offensive runs above/below average you were...

Smith: -69.4
Vizquel: -234.3

Vizquel provided a lot more negative value as a batter and offensive player throughout his career. Only 2 seasons as a better than league average batter, Smith had 7. Comes down to era they played in.

As for defense, Fangraphs says Vizquel is worth 262.1 runs above average vs 375 for Smith.

So yeah, it's not particularly close. For a modern comp, it would be like comparing Andrelton Simmonds to Alexei Ramirez. One guy is clearly superior.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

These guys are not on my ballot: Beltran, Cabrera, Ramirez, Lofton, Palmeiro, Jones, Helton, Sheffield, Edmonds, Abreu.

But all are still more deserving than Harold Baines.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Looking at next year Jeter is a lock but other than that its a weak ballot and should open up opportunity for some guys.

Bonds and Clemens are self-explanatory and both should be in by now. So that would be 3 of my votes.

Hopefully people start judging Schilling as a baseball player and not on his politics and he gets in and the light ballot gets Larry Walker in on his final chance. There's 5.

I think Rolen should be in too. And am torn on Manny Ramirez. So I'd probably vote for 6 or 7 guys and not the full 10 max if I had a vote this year.

So in summary:
Bonds
Clemens
Jeter
Walker
Schilling
Rolen
Manny*



The 10 vote limit is still dumb though and it should be a binary ballot.

 

[robert terwilliger]

i love manny more than some people love members of their own family but he failed two tests.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

That's why he's maybe for me. I don't think roids made him the player he was, but that's also pretty stupid on his part to fail twice and I know Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they were definitely on something, I just feel a hypocrite if I'd vote for one user and not another. But Bonds and Clemens are so far above and beyond greatness IDC if steroids actually were magic pills, they didn't need the magic. Maybe that is the tiebreaker for someone like Manny though. The only reason he's on there isn't 10 better candidates for the first time in a few years. And Harold Baines (but if he's the bar theres another 50 guys at least who belong in lol). But with that logic I'd have to vote for Wagner too since Hoffman and Lee Smith are in.

But I'm not a voter so none of this matters anyway. lol.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

That's why he's maybe for me. I don't think roids made him the player he was, but that's also pretty stupid on his part to fail twice and I know Bonds and Clemens never failed a test, but they were definitely on something, I just feel a hypocrite if I'd vote for one user and not another. But Bonds and Clemens are so far above and beyond greatness IDC if steroids actually were magic pills, they didn't need the magic. Maybe that is the tiebreaker for someone like Manny though. The only reason he's on there isn't 10 better candidates for the first time in a few years. And Harold Baines (but if he's the bar theres another 50 guys at least who belong in lol). But with that logic I'd have to vote for Wagner too since Hoffman and Lee Smith are in.

But I'm not a voter so none of this matters anyway. lol.

Bonds never failed a test? What?

 

[robert terwilliger]

he didn't.

any tests were never confirmed but mentioned in leaked grand jury testimony that was later thrown out when the feds' case fell apart.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Bonds never failed a test? What?

Nope, there was no real testing for most of his career and then he didn't fail one from 03-07 when the current testing was instituted.

I have no doubt he used something, whether it was the cream, the clear or HGH or all of the above. But there is no failed test on record for him and it's all just he said she said.

 

[EpochLink]

Nope, there was no real testing for most of his career and then he didn't fail one from 03-07 when the current testing was instituted.

I have no doubt he used something, whether it was the cream, the clear or HGH or all of the above. But there is no failed test on record for him and it's all just he said she said.

Bonds never need it anyways, he was already a great player.
The fact that Sosa and McGwire were getting the accolades because they 'saved baseball' pretty much ticked Bonds off...so he was like 'oh yeah?', watch this..

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Bonds never need it anyways, he was already a great player.
The fact that Sosa and McGwire were getting the accolades because they 'saved baseball' pretty much ticked Bonds off...so he was like 'oh yeah?', watch this..

Exactly.