Whos 1-10?

[Lionel Hutz]

I think he'll be a solid starting goalie. I don't think he'll be this hyped Hall of Famer, but a solid starter.

This is what I disagreed with, in the context of the discussion you were having above.

You're disagreeing that he might not be a franchise goalie? I said I doubt he'll be this Hall of Fame franchise goalie he's been hyped up to be. You're telling me you think you doubt that he won't achieve that?

(I'm not being hostile, I just really don't think you worded that right.)

I think I understand you, let me see if i get this right...

I've watched him play in CB and in Pittsburgh and I see the skills-set he has and the great attitude and I beleive he will be a franchise goalie.

If that's what your asking - too many negatives in that question.

 

[McThome]

If you're inable to tell the diference between a 27 year old playing behind NJ and a 21 year old playing behind Atlanta then I see no other reason to try and continue a reasonable and logical hockey discussion with you.

Did Clemmenson ever dominate a Euro Elite league as a teenager? This is a guy who had JUST over a .902 save% in the AHL. If you can't do better then that you should not attempt.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

If you're inable to tell the diference between a 27 year old playing behind NJ and a 21 year old playing behind Atlanta then I see no other reason to try and continue a reasonable and logical hockey discussion with you.

Did Clemmenson ever dominate a Euro Elite league as a teenager? This is a guy who had JUST over a .902 save% in the AHL. If you can't do better then that you should not attempt.

Hmmm... Fleury dominated the NHL at a younger age, and played more games playing excellent hockey.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Caron wasn't great last year. He had like a .889%. That's not very good, IMO and didn't show me much more than back-up calibur play.

Young, in his first full season, as the #1, behind the Pens Woeful defence. I think given the circumstances a .899 was not too bad. Besides, I watched most of the games and saw what he displayed, I didn't just read his stats and say, oh, thats not good. He's not a bad young goalie, i'd give him even odds to be a bona fide starter.

Chiodo was just great down the strech, not really much more to say about that currently.

And don't base what he did off one season so far since that's all he's had.

OK, but wait, aren't you doing that too?

 

[McThome]

Hmmm... Fleury dominated the NHL at a younger age, and played more games playing excellent hockey.

haha, dominated. First goalie in ages to "dominate" with a sub .900save%. In his final month his GAA was something like four and half on an average of like 32 shots. Now, he played better then his numbers indicate, he was after all behind a REAL bad defense. Lehtonen wasn't playing behind much either though. Not to the same extent, but the numbers difference is absolutely drastic. And a simple fact is, his numbers and play has taken an absolute nose dive every time importance of games escalate. He's taken steps back in the two finals he's started in for Canada, and he has yet to put forth a decent showing in any playoffs except for in 02 where he was solid.

There's a reason Lehtonen is higher nor 95% of peoples lists.

 

[SwOOsh*]

As for it being consensus that KL is better.....no, it's not consensus. Most of the time, it's a fairly even split between the two when it comes to whom is the better prospect.

Really? Other than Pens fans pretty much everyone has Lehtonen as the better prospect.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

haha, dominated. First goalie in ages to "dominate" with a sub .900save%. In his final month his GAA was something like four and half on an average of like 32 shots. Now, he played better then his numbers indicate, he was after all behind a REAL bad defense. Lehtonen wasn't playing behind much either though. Not to the same extent, but the numbers difference is absolutely drastic. And a simple fact is, his numbers and play has taken an absolute nose dive every time importance of games escalate. He's taken steps back in the two finals he's started in for Canada, and he has yet to put forth a decent showing in any playoffs except for in 02 where he was solid.

There's a reason Lehtonen is higher nor 95% of peoples lists.

It's all the hype, I still remember everyone saying how Fleury would be a HHOF. Although Lehtonen does have potential to be a HHOF, he does not have the potential to be better than Patrick Roy,

 

[Jacob]

"a" implies singular. He was extremely sub-par the entire WJC. Then, he returned to his team in the Q where he had a decent end to the regular season but was completely outplayed by Deslauriers.

Lehtonen is noted as being a big game goalie (a la Roy) Fleury is more of a Curtis Joseph to this point if you need to compare him to somebody.

If you want to say he was "completely" outplayed than you have to give him credit for being more than just "decent" in end of the regular season. I mean, he lost 1 game and had a GAA under 2.

 

[Lionel Hutz]

haha, dominated. First goalie in ages to "dominate" with a sub .900save%. In his final month his GAA was something like four and half on an average of like 32 shots. Now, he played better then his numbers indicate, he was after all behind a REAL bad defense. Lehtonen wasn't playing behind much either though. Not to the same extent, but the numbers difference is absolutely drastic. And a simple fact is, his numbers and play has taken an absolute nose dive every time importance of games escalate. He's taken steps back in the two finals he's started in for Canada, and he has yet to put forth a decent showing in any playoffs except for in 02 where he was solid.

There's a reason Lehtonen is higher nor 95% of peoples lists.

So he didn't dominate in October? I think that was the point.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

So he didn't dominate in October? I think that was the point.

Exactly

 

[McThome]

If you want to say he was "completely" outplayed than you have to give him credit for being more than just "decent" in end of the regular season. I mean, he lost 1 game and had a GAA under 2.

Oh ya, i'll give that for sure. I'm coming off as quite anti-Fleury right now, which I'm not. He's a no brainer top 10 prospect. He simply isn't at the same level as Lehtonen.


Also, R_F, how can you say exactly what his potential is? I don't know what exactly will become of Kari. I do know, however, that this kid is the goods and there hasn't been a goalie prospect that is his equal in all the year I can remember.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Oh ya, i'll give that for sure. I'm coming off as quite anti-Fleury right now, which I'm not. He's a no brainer top 10 prospect. He simply isn't at the same level as Lehtonen.


Also, R_F, how can you say exactly what his potential is? I don't know what exactly will become of Kari. I do know, however, that this kid is the goods and there hasn't been a goalie prospect that is his equal in all the year I can remember.

How can you say what his potential is?

"I mean this guy has Patrick Roy potential"

 

[McThome]

you're saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's possible. I'm not saying he will, or he should but I am saying that isn't a completely unreasonable best case scenerio.

 

[Jeff Goldblum]

haha, dominated. First goalie in ages to "dominate" with a sub .900save%. In his final month his GAA was something like four and half on an average of like 32 shots. Now, he played better then his numbers indicate, he was after all behind a REAL bad defense. Lehtonen wasn't playing behind much either though. Not to the same extent, but the numbers difference is absolutely drastic. And a simple fact is, his numbers and play has taken an absolute nose dive every time importance of games escalate. He's taken steps back in the two finals he's started in for Canada, and he has yet to put forth a decent showing in any playoffs except for in 02 where he was solid.

There's a reason Lehtonen is higher nor 95% of peoples lists.

If we were to look at Fleury's stats for only his first 4 games, which is what you're doing for Lehtonen, it would be much closer. Fleury made something like 53 saves in his first start. In October, his stats were among the NHL's best IIRC. From what I hear, the whole Cape Breton team played bad. Fleury was one of the few bright spots in that series. Oh well, there's no debate that these two are the top 2 goaltending prospects out there.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

fleury, like many young goalies has some problems with consistency. to question his upside, however, is insane. when he is "on", i've never seen a goalie that is as fast as him. kari lehtonen is the better prospect right now, but to say he's got patrick roy potential while fleury has curtis joseph potential is extremely short sighted.

this board approximately a year ago was very far up fleury's behind. i saw many patrick roy and martin brodeur comparisons from non pens fans. i can also guarantee that the next time the nhl starts up and fleury starts off hot and lehtonen not so hot, and a poll is conducted, it would be 60-40 fleury.

 

[mazmin]

01. Alexander Ovechkin
02. Kari Lehtonen
03. Dion Phaneuf
04. Marc-André Fleury
05. Nikolai Zherdev
06. Evgeny Malkin
07. Ryan Suter
08. Nathan Horton
09. Thomas Vanek
10. Milan Michálek

This is my best stab...

I simply based my rankings with confidence that out of goalies, Lehtonen > Fleury
and that out of the d-men Phaneuf > Suter
and that Ovechkin is the top forward.

I generally value goaltenders and d-men higher than frwds as they are less common.

 

[clefty]

Really? Other than Pens fans pretty much everyone has Lehtonen as the better prospect.

Please do not generalise about Penguin fans like you always do.

 

[andora]

01. Alexander Ovechkin
02. Kari Lehtonen
03. Dion Phaneuf
04. Marc-André Fleury
05. Nikolai Zherdev
06. Evgeny Malkin
07. Ryan Suter
08. Nathan Horton
09. Thomas Vanek
10. Milan Michálek

.

i really really like your list, except for the vanek in the 9 spot. i believe that will be kesler

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

It changes the fact that he AT THIS POINT does not belong in the top 50 prospect list, only put him back there when he comes back and shows that he can still play.

I wouldn't put him in the top 10 (injuries or not) but out of the top 50?

Get real.

All prospects are question marks. You're right not to discard the injuries but you're completely nuts making of it a bigger deal than it should be at this point.

 

[Robertsson 4-ever]

Strange Niklas Kronwall dropped off the whole list.

 

[shadoz19]

Strange Niklas Kronwall dropped off the whole list.

Can't believe his potential became less after the season he had.

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Strange Niklas Kronwall dropped off the whole list.

He's not a prospect anymore...

 

[#66]

Agree. Lehtonen is the best goalie prospect in years. Fleury in my view was lucky to go 1st overall and won't in my view be a franchise netminder.

I wouldn't go that far. If you watch MAF play you can see that the skill is there but the Penguins player developement is just that bad. While guys like Broduer, Lehtonen, Potvin, and some others have been groomed for the position, MAF was bounced around as an 18 year old and is still feeling the effects of poor judgement by the Pens now. His game is coming around in the AHL and I'm hoping that he spends the whole season there. That being said Lehtonen is a better prospect than Fluery but that doesn't make MAF a bust.

 

[shadoz19]

He's not a prospect anymore...

Funny the last ranking of the teams showed him as one.

 

[usiel]

Both Lehtonen and Fleury are bad mofo goalie prospects (as in they are very very good). Tough to say though. Its like one is a 9.00000125 and the other is 9.00000124.