who thinks Lemieux, Gretzky, Messier and Yzerman couldnt get a deal done

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Brent Burns Beard, Jan 30, 2005.

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  1. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    who thinks Gretzky and Mario with Mark Messier and Steve Yzerman could get together to find the common ground.

    These 4 are considered the greatest on ice leaders of their generation. They now equally balance 2 owners and 2 players.

    Surely these 4 can forget about the legal and business manouvering and talk straight up about what each side can live with.

    Is Mess going to accuse Gretzky of lying and having alterior motives ? Is Mario going to tell Yzerman that their concerns are of no consequence ? Mario is also a player after all !

    Surely, if common ground can be found, these 4 have the best shot of finding it.

    DR

    EDIT: WELL, I WAS CLOSE TO RIGHT ... IT DID TAKE 66 AND 99 TO GET INVOLVED AND ALSO STEVE HAD A ROLE WITH HIS COMMENTS TO GET THE BALL ROLLING
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2005
  2. Da Game

    Da Game Registered User

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    Of course they could. But that's just wishful thinking.
     
  3. tritone

    tritone Registered User

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    If anyone of them had an answer I'm sure it would have been put forward already...part of the problem is exactly what you said "they could put aside the business maneouvering" ... this is part of the process and needs to be done to achieve the best deal for each respective side.....neither one wants to meet straight down the middle so it just won't happen.
     
  4. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    Too bad they aren't in charge of the NHL, PA respectively. You've got two very skewed agendas and personalities that surely wouldnt be buddy-buddy about this.

    I'm sure the NHL, PA have it set this way that Bettman, Goodenow aren't friends. Imagine if they were.... Goodenow in the sack with Bettman might mean the players get screwed... By-design, Goodenow shouldnt be friends with the "enemy" and should bargain to his end over the rights of his players. It's all business

    After all, does anyone remember Al Eagleson?
     
  5. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    i wouldnt put it past a bettman/goodenow combo to cheat the players. i strongly disagree that MEssier, Yzerman, Lemiuex and Gretky would conspire to rip off hte players.

    Whether they have put forward idea's through their channels or not. the privacy of those 4 being in the room would get the concepts through with much less "noise".

    i think if those men are truly the leaders the newspapers tell us they are, they will fix this mess and tell the lawyers and mba's go "manouver" themselves in the corner.

    dr
     
  6. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    You want four guys with nary a college credit between them to decide how to divide a $2.1 billion pie and settle the fate of an industry that employees thousands? No thanks.
    No disrespect to those guys, but they clearly lack the financial expertise for something like this.
     
  7. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    understood ... but we can leave the technical part to the monkey's.

    these 4 can cut through the crap that is being spewed in the name of "process".

    we just need them to find what the common ground really and truly is. Mario is not going to tell Yzerman that "the players are no more important than a GM worker" and Messier isnt going to tell Gretzky that he doesnt trust him.

    dr
     
  8. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Well they'd either come out of it looking like legends or they'd be tarred and feathered with their reputations in tatters. They could even stike a fair deal that the players reject or the owners reject.

    If its me I try and stay out of it and let the professional scum deal with the matter.
     
  9. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    well are they leaders or frauds ?

    dr
     
  10. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    Why is it that you think the 4 of the highest paid playes in the NHL could solve the NHL/NHLPA lock-out issue?

    Mario is drawing over a $5M a season salary and has been for the past three seasons. That of course is after he made almost $12M in 96-97 before he took those 4 seasons off for his health.

    Wayne was one of the highest paid players in his day ( only one season in his career did he make less than $2M and that was his rookie year) how exactly is he going to sell the $850,000 rookie cap with no bonus?

    Yzerman who made almost $6M last season and had accumulated almost $65M over his career same for Messier.

    How do you think these 4 four are going to agree to a salary cap??

    I don't disagree that there are players out there that could solve this issue, but it isn't those 4. Great players don't necessarily make great negotiators.
     
  11. Brent Burns Beard

    Brent Burns Beard DontTouchMyDonskoi!

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    i understand your points.

    first of all, in case you missed it, 99 and 66 are owners.

    second of all, i suggested those 4 in particular mainly because of their close interpersonal relationships with each other and the fact that are equally balanced in the sides they now find themselves on.

    finally, mario is a wild card in that he is uniquely a player and owner.
     
  12. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    I know Mario and Wayne are owners and that is why I think they can't get it done. How does Mario sell a cap to the players, when he himself makes over $5M a season on one of the poorest teams in the league.

    How does Wayne sell a cap to the players when as a player himself he made $1.7M in his rookie season. How does Wayne sell a cap system to the players as a means to solving the NHL woes when his team (Phoenix) spent 106% of revenues on player salaries last season, mainly due to poor management.

    I understand these two guys are exceptions to the rule, but that is exactly why they shouldn't be doing it.
     
  13. Marconius

    Marconius Registered User

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    I don't know, what rookie is going to look Gretzky in the eye and tell him he deserves more then 800k? In essence hes saying he's almost half the player Gretzky is/was...(and yes, I know about inflation)
     
  14. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Leave the business decisions to businessmen.

    Let those 4 decide on the rule changes for the league.
     
  15. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    By saying he puts his cut back into the team.
     
  16. shnagle

    shnagle Registered User

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    I'm not sure if those are the 4 guys to get it done but I think the idea of bringing in a 3rd party to mediate is a great idea. Here is a link to a great espn article about a 3rd party solution: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/columns/story?id=1976300

    Unfortunately, neither side will agree to a mediator which just proves to me that each side is more intent on winning rather than finding an equitable solution.
     
  17. NYIsles1*

    NYIsles1* Guest

    Messier at age 43 demanded a contract (his father is his agent) paying him over three million a year with bonuses that could make him five million. He is a fine example of someone who should never be near a bargaining table when it comes to a business.

    When he did not get his money he went to the highest bidder every time.

    Gretzky and Lemieux do not have partners with large revenue. By themselves they could not even own a team. As former players they wanted their money and could have cared less about how owners got the revenue but today as part owners they know the reality of the situtation. Without cost-certainty they may not even be able to continue as part owners.
     
  18. Reilly311

    Reilly311 Guest

    yes, lets get two owners and two players who don't want to retire yet a chance to get a deal done. :speechles
     
  19. i am dave

    i am dave Registered User

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    Didn't Mario try to get by on the League minimum only to have the PA cry foul? I thought I heard that... though I could just be spreading rumors.

    Plus, I think having guys like Lemieux and Gretzky speak out can set the tone of "None of you guys have the talent we ever did, and therefore should listen to us when it comes to player value."
     
  20. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    Sidney Crosby
     
  21. nyr7andcounting

    nyr7andcounting Registered User

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    I think Mr. Bettman would disagree. The league wouldn't have allowed them to become owners if this were the case, would they? How could the NHL let these guys, with nary a college credit and lacking financial expertise, own NHL franchises? Oops.
     
  22. puck_it

    puck_it Registered User

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    you got that right. Gretzky him self said Crosby was the next.
     
  23. i am dave

    i am dave Registered User

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    I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Sidney Crosby never eclipses 92 goals or 212 points in one season.
     
  24. puck_it

    puck_it Registered User

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    except, for the fact that Gretzky and Lemeiux happen to be pretty shrewd businessman? Bill Gates doesnt have a diploma but i think he did a pretty good job of running microsoft (dont start a i hate microsoft crap, take their view in this situation).
     
  25. Icey

    Icey Registered User

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    Nobody will, but that doesn't mean he isn't the best of the rookies and that is the point. The game has changed.
     
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