Who should win the Calder?

[Corto]

IMO, Ovechkin over Sidney at this point... May as well stay that way.

I feel sorry for Phaneuf, he's been awesome, but I just don't see a defenseman winning it this year.

 

[Ox17]

I haven't seen pittsburgh play yet, but I was wondering if the top checking line and top defensive pair goes out against Sidney or if they play against Mario??
I do know AO gets the bulk of the attention when anyone plays the caps.
And the way AO crunches people is just as good as Phaneuf.

AO gets my vote for now, but I honestly admit I've only seen highlights of most rookies.

 

[wilka91*]

Crosby will win it but so far Ovechkin, Lundqvist and Phaneuf deserve it more.

 

[MojoJojo]

So, is it more impressive to outplay a bunch of AHLers or more impressive to outplay future HHOF members and offensive dynamos like John leClair who are the reason Sidney scores points according to most Ovechkin nut huggers?

Let me put it this way, if Ovechkin was on the Pens, he would still be the best player on the team.

 

[Habsfan 32]

Right now I would give it to Lundqvist.

 

[DJmastamind]

How about ask me this question in 3-4 months.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

Crosby will win it. His GA totals will be a lot better then Ovechkin's, barring an injury to Crosby, on the strength of his assits. The only assists Ovechkin gets is when he creates a play, and his linemate manages not to screw up enough to prevent him from scoring.If the stats are close, Crosby will still win - and I don't have a problem with it because he is 18, and because the NHL needs to market its new star.

 

[oil slick]

Based on play so far - I'd definately give it to Ovechkin... but realistically it will be Crosby.

 

[name]

Crosby will win it. His GA totals will be a lot better then Ovechkin's, barring an injury to Crosby, on the strength of his assits. The only assists Ovechkin gets is when he creates a play, and his linemate manages not to screw up enough to prevent him from scoring.If the stats are close, Crosby will still win - and I don't have a problem with it because he is 18, and because the NHL needs to market its new star.

In a close race, this is why he will win unless Ovechkin (or someone else) does so much better that it will look completely asinine if he doesn't win.

 

[octopi]

The question is: How much should +/- come into play for the Calder?

Phaneuf, Crosby, Vorobiev, Meszaros, Steen, Ovechkin, and Miller have all been great thus far (I apologize for leaving anyone out).

But at the end of the season, if Crosby has 82 points, and owns a -45, and Steen has 74 points, but owns a +25, should Steen get consideration?

I think we all know it'll be Crosby or Ovechkin, and that's fine, they're both phenominal, but how much should something like +/- come into play?

I'd say things like plus minus, the overall team performance and what percent of team goals these guys get points on should all be taken into consideration.

 

[ILuvLA]

It's way too early - but if pace stays the same, Ovechkin SHOULD win, but Crosby WILL win.

 

[David]

Right at this moment, Ovechkin is a better player and a more complete player than Sidney Crosby.

However, I can't believe how quickly Sidney Crosby is learning and developing. The change from just October 4th to now has been incredible! At the rate that he's going, I'd be very surprised if Crosby has not surpassed Ovechkin around January to be the better player. My bet is now on Crosby winning the Calder.

HOWEVER, since the season is a long one and anything can happen, including injuries, I wouldn't rule out guys like Phaneuf, Lundqvist, Labarbara, and Voroviev.

And what about a couple of Ryans?

Ryan Miller? He was having an excellent year when he went down. I don't think that Buffalo has won a game since.

Ryan Whitney? He's been the BEST offensive AND defensive defenseman on the Pittsburg team since he's been called up. And I don't think that it's a coincidence that Penguinos have been winning since Whitney's been in the lineup either!

 

[borro]

One of the issues comparing Crosby and Ovechkin is like comparing Gretzky and Lemieux. Which one do you take? The answer is both! Apples and oranges. From a Caps point of view, AO has meant far more to his team than Crosby. Crosby seems to be the press favorite. Bias appears obvious. As far as on the ice, AO is the man, then Phaneuf. Crosby is probably 4th behind Lundqvist.

 

[ryz]

I haven't watched a whole lot of Crosby or Ovechkin so I can't really get into that debate, but I have watched my fair share of Dion Phaneuf and he is as advertised. He is as good a rookie Dman as Ovechkin and Crosby are forwards.

 

[Higgy4]

Ok, someone tell me. How many of these same types of threads do we actually need on here? Cant we just have ONE BIG thread to discuss this topic?

My opinion is that I checked the calendar today and it said November 9th 2005. I dont have any clue who should win the Calder at this point. My guess is that it will be from a group including Crosby, Ovechkin, Labarbera, Phaneuf, Vorobiev, Svatos, Steen, MRichards, RWhitney, Vanek, Lundqvist...etc, etc.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

I don't buy this "Ovechkin should win it, but Crosby will."

If Crosby wins it, he will have to earn it.

My take is at the current clip, Ovechkin would win it. Even Crosby edges him in points (let's say 90 points to 80 points), the higher goal total (let's say 50 goals for OV versus 30 goals for Crosby) would mean more, especially considering linemates.

But a lot could happen between now and the end of the season. I actually think things are more likely to improve for Crosby given his linemates, where as Ovechkin might wear down given all the defensive attention he will receive over the season.

As to who will be the better player, Crosby is almost two years younger, so if OV edges him for the Calder, it is hardly an indication who will be better long term. The fact Crosby is leading the Pens in scoring over the other offensive talent that is there, speaks for itself.

Either way, both are fantastic and it should be fun to watch.

 

[supermann_98]

As a Leaf fan I think Alexander Steen should win it.

JOKES JOKES!

Honestly ... based on points per game I think Crosby might win it but if I had a vote (RIGHT NOW) I would give it to Ovechkin. Barring nightly highlights he is the only guy I've seen play live, against the Leafs last night. Not counting his two goals (awesome goals, this guy has Brett Hull type of rocket shot) he was throwing hits all over the place, and his passes were tape to tape.
Now I haven't seen Crosby play live yet so when he does I will keep a close eye out on how he performs.
Regardless of who wins the Calder, these kids are simply amazing and it is we the fans who win by getting to watch them play. They will be the Larry Bird-Magic Johnson of the NHL for years to come. The only shame is that they play in crap hockey markets.

 

[wilka91*]

I don't buy this "Ovechkin should win it, but Crosby will."

If Crosby wins it, he will have to earn it.

Yeah ... we already saw what happened last month.

 

[Steve Latin*]

Crosby plays on a line with Recchi and Leclair, correct?

AO plays with Halpern (career high 22 goals I think) and Willsie (AHL veteran, NHL newcomer)

Even if Crosby gets 20-30 more points than Ovechkin, I think Ovechkin is deserving. The argument that he has no supporting cast relative to Crosby simply CANNOT be refuted.

Also, being 2 years younger should not give SC any leverage in the race. He very well may turn out to be the better player by the time he's AO's age, but the Calder goes to the most impressive rookie performance. I would venture to say that AO would have 5-10 more points at this point playing on the Pens.

I am not bashing Crosby or overhyping AO in any way whatsoever. I just think that producing a PPG on a team full of scrubs is more impressive than producing 1.5 PPG on a team loaded with skill and veterans who have scored hundreds of goals during their careers.

Maybe if Crosby were playing with worse players those assists would have been goals; he'll often pass up the opportunity to shoot the puck because by dishing it off to a competant teammate he creates more total offense. Ovechkin doesn't have that luxury and needs to take the shot himself, as evidenced by his shot total being nearly double that of Crosby.

 

[txpd]

I'd like to try and add a couple of unbiased(trying to be at least) thoughts on the Crosby/Ovechkin thing.

1. Who would you have voted for? Magic or Bird? I think realistically that is what this is. Different types of players in different circumstances and still rising to the top. Crosby is not overwhelmed by playing with big named players and Ovechkin is not overwhelmed by being the only skilled forward on his team.

2. In my view goals and assists do not carry the same value if only because they generally award two assists for each goal. its just more likely that you get one. also to get an assist you must have somebody able to finish a play. Who would want to say that the backdoor pass to Sergei Gonchar has a better chance of going in than the same pass to Jamie Heward? Who is considered the greater offensive player? Brett Hull or Adam Oates?

3. I think some are still missing the poing on Ovechkin because they haven't seen him play. I see Capitals games usually broadcast by the opposing team's broadcast crew. You would be amazed at how many of those guys are trying to compare Ovechkin to Ilya Kovalchuk. I think a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that Ovechkin is somehow in that Kovalchuk mold, which couldn't be further from the truth. Kovy is an shooter and Ovechkin is a complete player. he is the Caps home run body checker and a lot of people just dont know that. To me Ovechkin is more like a modern era Gordie Howe than a slick offensive only player.

4. Lastly, Crosby gets assists because he has players like Mario and Gonchar and Palffy that can catch his passes and finish with them. He also needs not to be the first shooting option and the time will come where they count on him to shoot more. Ovechkin scores because he is the best shot on his team and is the first shooting option. His assists do not reflect his passing ability because his mates just have more trouble finishing a good pass. Time will come where that is not the case anymore and his passes become assists rather than the nice passes they are right now.

once again...who would you vote for? Bird or Magic?

 

[thomasincanada]

Yeah ... we already saw what happened last month.

Cripes.. some of you people never stop whining. It's like being in grade school around here.

 

[Namso]

Cripes.. some of you people never stop whining. It's like being in grade school around here.

Ovechkin was robbed last month though. If the season ended today, Ovechkin would deserve it but Crosby would get it due to him having 2 more points and being the media darling.

 

[octopi]

One of the issues comparing Crosby and Ovechkin is like comparing Gretzky and Lemieux. Which one do you take? The answer is both! Apples and oranges. From a Caps point of view, AO has meant far more to his team than Crosby. Crosby seems to be the press favorite. Bias appears obvious. As far as on the ice, AO is the man, then Phaneuf. Crosby is probably 4th behind Lundqvist.

But you can't take both.

You must choose. And choose wisely

I'm leaning towards agreeing that unless someone completly outperforms Crosby, then Crosby gets it....due to the continual media coverage, he has the most exposure.

 

[benji]

Henrik Lundqvist is the best rookie in the NHL right now. Hopefully he gets enough starts to contend for the award.

I don't mean to attack you at all, I am just wondering if both Ovechkin and Lundqvist keep up their current paces for the rest of the year (Ovechkin, let's say over 50 goals, 80-90 points, Lundqvist approximately 30-40 wins, 1.80 GAA, .930 SV%), who would you give the award to?

 

[Randall Graves*]

For what it is worth, Crosby was 17 as recently as 3 months ago.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hockey/nhl/players/3737/

I would actually call them about equal right now, but I will give Crosby one edge, I am not entirely sure that AO would be up to this level when he was only a handful of months into his 18th birthday. But strictly looking at each of them, right now, it is a wash.

It isn't whos the best near 18 year old award, it's the rookie of the year. Crosby being 18 and Ovechkin being 20 should be irrelevent.