Who is the 11th Best Centre?

[bionic]

True, you just focus on Getzlaf.

Maybe he should've been better then? And yeah that "immediately" was 3 years into his career when he was 24. And besides, why does it matter if he was on the 4th line? Are you telling me TOI matters?

Good for him, Matthews is on about PPG in his 2nd year, something Getzlaf didn't do until he was 24, but keep pumping those tires, gonna be very hard in the coming years, especially as paltry 15 goal Ryan continues to score less and less.

I love how TOI doesn't matter when it comes to Matthews but as soon as you bring up Getzlaf numbers in his first two years he quickly goes to the TOI defense...to funny

 

[LeafsNation75]

I love how TOI doesn't matter when it comes to Matthews but as soon as you bring up Getzlaf numbers in his first two years he quickly goes to the TOI defense...to funny

It's like I said before. When a stat like that makes a Leafs player look good it does not matter, however when it makes a player from any other team look good it's a legit stat and reason to mention it.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Nice. Family stuff? Or just because?

Family vacation and we are also very big Disney fans.

 

[Sojourn]

I love how TOI doesn't matter when it comes to Matthews but as soon as you bring up Getzlaf numbers in his first two years he quickly goes to the TOI defense...to funny

Then you're misunderstanding the point.

It isn't a TOI argument. It's a role argument. A 4th line role has far, far less opportunity than a top line role. Matthews is already on the top line. The actual room for more opportunity there is limited. You can increase his ice time, but you can't drastically improve his opportunity in a similar fashion.

I'm not sitting here saying that Getzlaf could have started his career with better numbers if only he had been given more ice time. I'm not trying to say that Getzlaf was as good as other players in that time, but that he wasn't given the opportunity. He was simply worked into the NHL more slowly, and that's something that Anaheim has been consistent about with their young forwards. I can speculate all I want about what could have been, but what happened is what happened.

 

[bionic]

Then you're misunderstanding the point.

It isn't a TOI argument. It's a role argument. A 4th line role has far, far less opportunity than a top line role. Matthews is already on the top line. The actual room for more opportunity there is limited. You can increase his ice time, but you can't drastically improve his opportunity in a similar fashion.

He's also playing against the league top centers and top lines every game.

 

[Sojourn]

He's also playing against the league top centers and top lines every game.

And?

Is this where you try to convince me that he'd be so much better offensively if Babcock used him in a purely offensive role?

Because that's the Toews argument all over again.

 

[LeafsNation75]

And?

Is this where you try to convince me that he'd be so much better offensively if Babcock used him in a purely offensive role?

Because that's the Toews argument all over again.

I admit not knowing all of Toews numbers in great detail, however I think what he means is Matthews has been putting up consistent numbers since his rookie season and doing it against the other teams best players. For example the stat of him leading the league last year and this year in 5v5 goals is an accomplishment given that's the hardest way to score a goal in the NHL.

 

[Sojourn]

I admit not knowing all of Toews numbers in great detail, however I think what he means is Matthews has been putting up consistent numbers since his rookie season and doing it against the other teams best players. For example the stat of him leading the league last year and this year in 5v5 goals is an accomplishment given that's the hardest way to score a goal in the NHL.

Oh, there is no doubt Matthews is a better goal scorer than Toews ever was.

What I meant is that Toews was constantly being raised to the level of better offensive players, with the argument being that he would be as good offensively as they were "if only..."

I actually see the potential in Matthews to be the kind of player that some Chicago fans were claiming Toews was. Not the "He's better than Crosby/As good as Crosby" ones, because that was ridiculous and I don't think Matthews has that ability, but the ones that had him as a top 5 center. He's not there yet, and I don't think there is a guarantee he becomes that, but I think he can.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Oh, there is no doubt Matthews is a better goal scorer than Toews ever was.

What I meant is that Toews was constantly being raised to the level of better offensive players, with the argument being that he would be as good offensively as they were "if only..."

I actually see the potential in Matthews to be the kind of player that some Chicago fans were claiming Toews was. Not the "He's better than Crosby/As good as Crosby" ones, because that was ridiculous and I don't think Matthews has that ability, but the ones that had him as a top 5 center. He's not there yet, and I don't think there is a guarantee he becomes that, but I think he can.

If Toews was ever brought up I think it's because of the success he has had winning the Cup 3x, Olympic Gold 2x, World Juniors and World Hockey Championships.

 

[amnesiac]

add Kuznetsov, ROR, Draisaitl, Carter, RyJo, Staal

 

[Sojourn]

If Toews was ever brought up I think it's because of the success he has had winning the Cup 3x, Olympic Gold 2x, World Juniors and World Hockey Championships.

Oh man, you missed some interesting discussions then. For a while, it was all about him as an individual, and how he was putting up his points while in a particular role, and so on and so forth.

I think over time it ended up being the team success argument, because there was less argument you could make for him as the individual.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Oh man, you missed some interesting discussions then. For a while, it was all about him as an individual, and how he was putting up his points while in a particular role, and so on and so forth.

I think over time it ended up being the team success argument, because there was less argument you could make for him as the individual.

Oh I never missed all those discussions. I just never got into replying about them until now.

 

[spiny norman]

The poll has already closed.

Therefore, so will this thread be.