Which factors make a player a bust?

Kevin Forbes

Registered User
Jul 29, 2002
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Nova Scotia
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Certainly not by me. Crosby was never the kind of player to float around in the neutral zone for two minutes waiting for the puck to squirt out past a pinching defenseman. Crosby went down to block shots and helped out his D deep in his own end. And when Crosby did gamble, he had the explosive acceleration to recover and get back into position.

That is why he was a markedly different junior player than Tavares IMO. And, incidentally, these are the same attributes that put Crosby on the World Junior team at 16 years old, and stopped Tavares from even coming close.

You are right, they are different players, but when it all comes down to it, at 16 years old, it is understandable for a player to have holes and faults in his game. Hell, at 18 it is understandable for a player to have holes and faults in his game. (I personally disagree with your assessment of Crosby's defensive game when he was younger, but that's irrelevant).

There's no doubt Tavares has a long way to go before he can contribute regularly at the NHL level and too often people see gaudy stats at junior and think the player in question is already prepared for the jump to the next level. That said, it is undeniable that Tavares has been stellar so far in his hockey career and he definitely has the makings of becoming a special player.

Writing him off at this point because of flaws you see in his playstyle seems a bit abrupt, especially if you begin to assume that these flaws you see aren't addressed in the next two years before he is drafted (or in the time that follows before he makes the NHL).
 

Bookman

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Feb 27, 2002
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To me, bust the way it is used means failed to live up to expectations.

Look at everyone's favorite bust, Al Daigle.

Played 616 games in the NHL

Scored 129 goals.

Had 198 assists, for a total of 327 points.

All in all this aint a bad career, unless you were hyped to the moon like Daigle was.

Other #1s like Patrik Stefan would be happy to have that career, as would have Brian Lawton, or Doug Wickenheiser.
 

Juan

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Apr 30, 2002
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You are right, they are different players, but when it all comes down to it, at 16 years old, it is understandable for a player to have holes and faults in his game. Hell, at 18 it is understandable for a player to have holes and faults in his game. (I personally disagree with your assessment of Crosby's defensive game when he was younger, but that's irrelevant).

There's no doubt Tavares has a long way to go before he can contribute regularly at the NHL level and too often people see gaudy stats at junior and think the player in question is already prepared for the jump to the next level. That said, it is undeniable that Tavares has been stellar so far in his hockey career and he definitely has the makings of becoming a special player.

Writing him off at this point because of flaws you see in his playstyle seems a bit abrupt, especially if you begin to assume that these flaws you see aren't addressed in the next two years before he is drafted (or in the time that follows before he makes the NHL).

I am not writing Tavares off. Like I said before, I just don't think he is going to be as dominant, as quickly, as some are projecting. Actually, I don't even blame him for his flaws. I blame them on his coach. I blame the coach for letting him stay out for 3 minute shifts. I blame the coach for letting him goal suck. I hope for Tavares' sake that Selwood changes his approach in the next couple of years, because there has been zero change in how he lets Tavares play in the past two years.

I would further add that there's a difference between a player who works hard to backcheck, tries to pick up his man in the neutral zone, tries to play in his own end, but just doesn't get the hang of proper body position, or just doesn't understand the defensive zone system yet... and a player who doesn't even bother. Tavares is the latter, in most of the games I have seen him play in the OHL. Couple that with average (at best) skating, and you're a million miles away from being a "special" player in the NHL.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
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Ontario
The thing is too guys, we're all excited about almost all 1st round picks and some 2nd round picks..and we automatically think the majority of them will be NHL'ers. We automatically compare them to current players and guess what we think their potential offensive production will be in the NHL. I think sometimes we don't realize that a majority of these players will become busts.

Looking back at my THN '92 Draft Preview..I see guys rated high enough, guys like David Cooper, Libor Polasek, Justin Hocking, Tuomas Gronman..etc..

Now that we look back years later..all we can say is, who??

We have to realize that 10-15 years from now, we can be looking back saying..Colton Gillies, Jonathan Blum, Zach Hamill, Jakub Voracek (just using these guys as examples)...who???

I think this is the interesting thing about prospects..we all want them to suceed and think they'll play big roles in the NHL..then a few years down the road nobody remembers their names.
 

Habsfan18

The Hockey Library
May 13, 2003
30,614
8,625
Ontario
The thing is too guys, we're all excited about almost all 1st round picks and some 2nd round picks..and we automatically think the majority of them will be NHL'ers. We automatically compare them to current players and guess what we think their potential offensive production will be in the NHL. I think sometimes we don't realize that a majority of these players will become busts.

Looking back at my THN '92 Draft Preview..I see guys rated high enough, guys like David Cooper, Libor Polasek, Justin Hocking, Tuomas Gronman..etc..

Now that we look back years later..all we can say is, who??

We have to realize that 10-15 years from now, we can be looking back saying..Colton Gillies, Jonathan Blum, Zach Hamill, Jakub Voracek (just using these guys as examples)...who???

I think this is the interesting thing about prospects..we all want them to suceed and think they'll play big roles in the NHL..then a few years down the road nobody remembers their names.

not to mention, this player was supposed to be the "safest" in the draft..:help:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=4986
 

leafmon

Registered User
Nov 13, 2006
1,708
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I am not writing Tavares off. Like I said before, I just don't think he is going to be as dominant, as quickly, as some are projecting. Actually, I don't even blame him for his flaws. I blame them on his coach. I blame the coach for letting him stay out for 3 minute shifts. I blame the coach for letting him goal suck. I hope for Tavares' sake that Selwood changes his approach in the next couple of years, because there has been zero change in how he lets Tavares play in the past two years.

I would further add that there's a difference between a player who works hard to backcheck, tries to pick up his man in the neutral zone, tries to play in his own end, but just doesn't get the hang of proper body position, or just doesn't understand the defensive zone system yet... and a player who doesn't even bother. Tavares is the latter, in most of the games I have seen him play in the OHL. Couple that with average (at best) skating, and you're a million miles away from being a "special" player in the NHL.

On the dominant timeline.......I'll wait two more years and decide

On the coaching part....you are dead-on
Tavares shifts are as long as he wants
 

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