Where thou Finnish elite goalies/goalie prospects?? where's the next Pekka Rinne, Tuukka Rask, Miikka Kiprusoff?... - too many years without one

[Dirtyf1ghter]

10 goalies drafted in the last 4 years.

Finland has too small a demographic to not experience several years without producing elite talent, but it will come back.

Kiprusoff, Rinne, Rask... they were formed a long time ago.

Currently there is Saros. 6 others play regularly in the NHL (10 and more).

Canada 20
USA 14
Russia 10
Sweden 7
Finland 7
Czechia 6
Others 3

Qualitatively, we have the impression that the level has dropped everywhere except in Russia but the goalkeepers seem worse because the league is more offensive.

Finland 10 years ago, the best defenders were 40 years old (Timonen, Salo), Matta, Vatanen, Pitkanen injured... in front of very old players (Selanne, Koivu) or not very strong.

There was a period where a lot of elite talent came out at the same time (Barkov, Aho, Rantanen, Hintz, Heiskanen, Laine) but it was a short interlude. Not a historical generality.

 

[Czechboy]

10 goalies drafted in the last 4 years.

Finland has too small a demographic to not experience several years without producing elite talent, but it will come back.

Kiprusoff, Rinne, Rask... they were formed a long time ago.

Currently there is Saros. 6 others play regularly in the NHL (10 and more).

Canada 20
USA 14
Russia 10
Sweden 7
Finland 7
Czechia 6
Others 3

Neat to see Canada on top for quantity. The struggle may be overblown

 

[JJTT]

Nowadays most Finnish kids would rather get drunk and do useless things than play sports. That country is going downhill pretty fast.

Sure they are doing useless things like spending 8 hours a day on tik tok and playing want be drug dealers selling vapes but drinking is not the reason for this lol.

Kids are just stupid nowadays.

 

[GaboriklessWild]

Maybe you should take your own advice and provide source for your previous statement.

On topic. Finland is a small country and they can produce as much elite talent as they can. At the moment most of the elites are forwards. Also the scoring has risen in recent years so that probably makes goalies look worse. How many elite goalies are there in the league at the moment even? Feels like most teams could use a better goaltender.

Seems like Luukkonen is rising to the next level and maybe in the future he'll be in the Vezina race. Blomqvist and Annunen are interesting names as well.

I didn't claim that my comment was based on statistics like the previous poster. Just an observation. After a personal experience I find Finnish people very strange, I get the feeling that they don't give a damn about anything. The impression of Finnish athletes is similar.

There is Rovanpera, after two world championship titles, at the age of 23 he goes on sabbatical while he is the best rally driver. Or Hakkinen who was burnt out after two titles, while he was similar if not better in talent than Schumacher who didn't even stop at 7 titles. It's the same for Raikkonen, who was satisfied with just one title, while Alonso is still trying to win a third at the age of 43. Sticking with hockey and Kiprusoff was mentioned, there was another Sharks Finnish goalie Toskala. The guy was a completely insane in his first two NHL seasons, which is why the Sharks traded Kipper and even pushed Nabokov out of the starting goalie role. After two years he practically stopped playing and would even let beach balls into the net

Of course, Finland is a country with a small population, but hockey is the most popular team sport there. If talent is drying up in the country's most popular sport, then I wonder how bad the situation can be in other sports. That was my point that there is less interest in the sport. There are some elite Finnish forwards, like the three guys from the 2015 draft + Barkov (Though his parents are Russian, so he got other cultural influences than Finnish.) But apart from a few elite players, the Finns also produce an insanely high number of first round busts and then there are some very highly drafted players who are not busts, but far from performing as expected.

Btw, higher score has no effect on whether someone is an elite goalkeeper or not. Just because Vasy's numbers don't look 'elite' this year, he is an elite goalkeeper.

So I need to provide sources for my claims, but you don’t?

I’m sure you could find said statistics yourself, but here’s a few:

Nuorten juomatavat Suomessa - Nuortenlinkki

Alkoholinkäytön yleisyys vaihtelee kyselytutkimusten mukaan nuorilla hyvin voimakkaasti iän mukana....

nuortenlinkki.fi

Tuore kysely: Nuoret aikuiset juovat vähemmän kuin koskaan â THL:n mukaan hyvä kehitys on pysähtynyt

Kysely on tehty korona-aikana, maalis-huhtikuussa 2020. Poikkeuksellinen aika saattaa siis vaikuttaa tulokseen.

yle.fi

The first link compares 1995 and 2015, so it is far from up to date. Although it says alcohol consumption is falling, the numbers they mention are still not flattering.

The second link is about young adults.

 

[Hntz]

The first link compares 1995 and 2015, so it is far from up to date. Although it says alcohol consumption is falling, the numbers they mention are still not flattering.

The second link is about young adults.

So you think it has just skyrocketed from 2015 based on ”just an observation”? The trend is pretty apparent.

Is 2019 recent enough for you, or do you wanna keep moving the goalpost?

 

[Esko6]

In his draft year, the 18-year-old Kipper was the best goalkeeper in the Finnish u20 league and played a few games in the men's league and the u20 world championship. If he wasn't a good prospect then I don't know what counts as a 'good prospect'.

Still, 5th round pick and the 11th goalie, that is not great during a time when goalies were picked more often

 

[Speyer]

Where thou Finnish elite goalies/goalie prospects?? where's the next Pekka Rinne, Tuukka Rask, Miikka Kiprusoff?​

At the gettin place...

 

[JabbaJabba]

I didn't claim that my comment was based on statistics like the previous poster. Just an observation. After a personal experience I find Finnish people very strange, I get the feeling that they don't give a damn about anything. The impression of Finnish athletes is similar.

When you make a claim like you did it's completely reasonable to ask for a source for what your statement is based on. Sorry that I presumed that it was based on something because now I see it's not based on anything really.

There is Rovanpera, after two world championship titles, at the age of 23 he goes on sabbatical while he is the best rally driver. Or Hakkinen who was burnt out after two titles, while he was similar if not better in talent than Schumacher who didn't even stop at 7 titles. It's the same for Raikkonen, who was satisfied with just one title, while Alonso is still trying to win a third at the age of 43. Sticking with hockey and Kiprusoff was mentioned, there was another Sharks Finnish goalie Toskala. The guy was a completely insane in his first two NHL seasons, which is why the Sharks traded Kipper and even pushed Nabokov out of the starting goalie role. After two years he practically stopped playing and would even let beach balls into the net

If someone wants to take a sabbatical or quit after years of driving that's their choice. There's more to life and people lose their passion at different times. Räikkönen for example has a family while Alonso does not. Maybe he chose to be more present in his children's lives rather than try to win something he has already won. He seems to care about his family. The fact that all these guys have won championships shows how much they cared and how much time and effort they put into their craft. It's extremely stupid to use these people as examples of people who don't care a damn about anything. People who don't care a damn about anything don't achieve anything.

About Toskala. Some players have short primes. It happens. You honestly think he just said "f*** it" and stopped caring?

Of course, Finland is a country with a small population, but hockey is the most popular team sport there. If talent is drying up in the country's most popular sport, then I wonder how bad the situation can be in other sports. That was my point that there is less interest in the sport. There are some elite Finnish forwards, like the three guys from the 2015 draft + Barkov (Though his parents are Russian, so he got other cultural influences than Finnish.) But apart from a few elite players, the Finns also produce an insanely high number of first round busts and then there are some very highly drafted players who are not busts, but far from performing as expected.

Finnish hockey is doing great at the moment. Look at the players in the NHL now compared to like 10 years ago. Depending on the day there are 3-4 guys in the top 30 and they are mainly centers in their prime. And there are more Finnish NHL players in general than there has been before. There's a lot of depth for every position. You go back in the early 2010s and you have elite goalies and aging forwards and defensemen who were not as talented as the current players are.

I would like to see the statistics for the high number of busts compared to other countries. Do you have that?

The Barkov thing is stupid and I see it from time to time. There are numerous NHL players who have different "cultural influences" but why is it always Barkov who is pointed out? What does it even matter? russia never invited Barkov to play for them so what was he supposed to do?

I don't know what people expect Finland to do. Have 100 NHL players? Have 10 players in the top 30 in scoring and a couple of goalies in the Vezina race and also take the Norris? I fully expect that there will be a stagnation in the future followed by an upturn. That's just how it seems to go.

Btw, higher score has no effect on whether someone is an elite goalkeeper or not. Just because Vasy's numbers don't look 'elite' this year, he is an elite goalkeeper.

No but it makes current goalies look worse when you compare them to the goalies of the past. On the flip side there are now more great or elite scorers than some years ago because scoring is up.