Where is the voice from the masses in the NHLPA?

[Wetcoaster]

His whole presumption is based on the fact that most hockey players share some psychological characteristics, one of which has been drilled into them their entire lives. The concept of following your captains & trusting them.

IMHO it is a false presumption.

These players have their own financial and legal advisors so they will know when it is no longer in their own best interest.

OTOH it could as easily be a result of that other psychological characteristic of hockey players - it is never a good idea to back one into a corner and issue a challenge. You are begging for fight.

 

[Charge_Seven]

"I think, when you look at it, the lockout is about guys like me," Avery said. "If I'm 24 and willing to sit out for two years, that's an indication of where the union stands."

Sean Avery is one of those players you wanted to speak out...right guys?

Go to the TSN.ca article regarding his signing with the UHL Mechanics for a link.

 

[Wetcoaster]

Or are you usually the bully?

??????????????

It has been my experience as junior player and player agent that hockey players do not respond well to bullying. YMMV.

 

[AM]

I agree

IMHO it is a false presumption.

These players have their own financial and legal advisors so they will know when it is no longer in their own best interest.

OTOH it could as easily be a result of that other psychological characteristic of hockey players - it is never a good idea to back one into a corner and issue a challenge. You are begging for fight.

It'll be funny when they wake up and find that the lights have been out for a couple of months and everyone has gone home.

 

[Crazy Lunatic]

In any lengthy labour dispute the union members will seldom if ever make up the money they have foregone during a strike lockout.

They may not be happy about it - I certainly would not but that does not mean they will overthrow the union or become replacement players. That is the leap of illogic you are attempting to make based on a couple of players speaking out.

Are you sure you are not Stan Fischler posting under a pseudonym???

I don't know how or when I got dragged into an argument about a union uprising. I never stated that, argued that and I don't believe it. I believe these guys are followers 'till the end. Its practically in their genetic make-up top follow the leader. What I argued is that the lockout is a giant financial hit to many (if not most) of these players. Just to repeat, I never claimed there was a mutiny and I don't believe one will come, at least not untill next January. I was just calling people out on their "the players LOVE being locked out and they make MORE money in Europe and are actually happier there" NHLPA posturing nonsense. The players are getting hammered by this lockout.

 

[AM]

Actually

??????????????

It has been my experience as junior player and player agent that hockey players do not respond well to bullying. YMMV.

I dont think they are being bullied in the punch you in the face sense of the word.

I think the union has just whispered in their ear about 10million dollar contracts per month if the pay continues to esculate like it has.

This has confused them into silence.

 

[Trottier]

I don't know how or when I got dragged into an argument about a union uprising.

While we are clarifying things here CL, I misread your post way back when. I thought you were seriously suggesting that going from $500k to $120k was not dramatic.

My mistake.

 

[Crazy Lunatic]

While we are clarifying things here CL, I misread your post way back when. I thought you were seriously suggesting that going from $500k to $120k was not dramatic.

My mistake.

I figured thats what happened. It was sarcasm. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Crazy Lunatic]

Sorry when did either Modano and Roenick become a "3rd liner with $10K in the bank"?

Oh, about October 2009 when the NHL starts up again. Only they will probably have a lot less in the bank by then.

 

[mackdogs*]

For the sake of wasting no further time/space on this, will simply end by addressing the heart of your post.

How is stating that "As of today, the union is standing strong, for better or worse...." hypothetical? How is that not fact?

How cynical can one get?

The day the union rebels and the players instruct Goodenow to change course (and, though I'm doubtful, it could happen; see previous posts in this thread alluding to a "no confidence" clause), I will gladly acknowledge that your prophecies were spot on. Because the union will have splintered, for all to see. Until then, they have not. And again, if you wish to continue to assign your own feelings toward Goodenow to the majority of the union membership, feel free!

Final thought: I'll take my chances on being taken seriously here, thank you. And I will continue to not suffers fools easily. Has served me well for a good while, actually.

That's it on this topic, from this side.

It's simple really Trots, try to follow.
Just because Bob Goodenow portrays the union to be peaches and cream does not make it so. Do you think all the American personnel going to Iraq are happy about it? I've talked to lots of people in the states (I am a Canadian) who have family and friends there and they all HATE it. However, judging from seeing George Bush on tv would indicate that everyone is in it together.

A leader will never show cracks in his troops/union members. To do so would be to sign your own resignation.

Without a formal vote you and I are just going on gut feel. Judging from a few replies to this thread I am not alone in thinking the union may be on shaky ground.

That's NOT it from the topic on my side, I'm happy to keep discussing it. Dunno why you've decided to close up shop.

 

[Wetcoaster]

I dont think they are being bullied in the punch you in the face sense of the word.

I think the union has just whispered in their ear about 10million dollar contracts per month if the pay continues to esculate like it has.

This has confused them into silence.

So the players are NOT being bullied they are stupid and are being misled????

These are the players who have their own agents, lawyers, accountants and financial advisors?

Your bullying theory had more legs.

 

[Trottier]

Just because Bob Goodenow portrays the union to be peaches and cream does not make it so.

No doubt! But you must acknowledge that going from that statement to suggesting that the majority of the union is in opposition to their leadership is a stretch, to be kind.

Do you think all the American personnel going to Iraq are happy about it? I've talked to lots of people in the states (I am a Canadian) who have family and friends there and they all HATE it. However, judging from seeing George Bush on tv would indicate that everyone is in it together.

Don't get me started on that topic. Let's just say that we are in agreement. Cynical propaganda taken to new heights (or lows).

A leader will never show cracks in his troops/union members. To do so would be to sign your own resignation.

True again.

Without a formal vote you and I are just going on gut feel.

OK, so depending on how one wishes to view things, I am either a) more gullible, or b) less cynical than are you. Let's leave it at that. Until the union splinters, I mean genuinely splinters, I cannot buy into the belief that it has, and especially not to the degree which some suggest. (To pick up on your Iraq analogy, the bulk of the union rebelling against Goodenow is akin to WMDs in Iraq. No evidence of either to this point. Though the chances of the former coming to pass is a lot greater than the latter, I will admit!)

But I'm not here to "shove" my POV, nor anything of the kind. Nor do I wish this debate to be anything other than friendly and focused on the subject, rather than personal. My smugness notwithstanding.

Judging from a few replies to this thread I am not alone in thinking the union may be on shaky ground.

You are likely in a majority. Would never argue that point.

Bottom line here: time will tell.

OK, now I'm out.

 

[mackdogs*]

OK, now I'm out.

Cool, Melnyk agrees with me http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=114913&hubName=nhl