Where is the voice from the masses in the NHLPA?

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Chayos, Feb 11, 2005.

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  1. Chayos

    Chayos Registered User

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    You have to wonder why more of the lower priced players haven't had stuff to say regarding this process.

    Look at what has gone on so far:

    1) the players propose a 24% roll back, but when the owner come back they alter that to be a tiered system where 75% of the players are as good or better off than they are under the deal thier own union was proposing.

    2) All of the players who have been in teh press making bold statement about the horribleness of the owners offers are big money players( Pronger, Marchant, Linden, Alfreddson, Chelios, Brodeur, Domi(highest paid goon out there) Guerin, modano( and his DOG)

    3) teh minute a lower priced player makes a comment regarding with what tehy would want the PA "Gestapo" is on them and a restraction or miscontrued press conference is called. Can you say Facism.

    If I was in the silent majority and i had house payment and kids to feed and i was watching the "stars" ruin my lively hood I would be leading a very vocal fight to break my own union if i had to to make sure what I wanted was heard.

    I start contacting players in similar situations across the league and lead the revolution to depose current leadership. The reality is my vote is worth as much as Any star in the league and i bet I could get enough votes in a non confidence vote to bury Sidehsow bob and the rest of his "mob" out of power.

    It is time for the players in the nhlpa to sit down and be counted because they still have time to stop this bus that is head over the cliff. If they get rid of the people who are driving in this insane game of chicken they will come out better in the long run.

    The Current offer the league has proposed has a profit sharing component in it that will allow for future growth in revenues to be shared with the players so how can you throw away the growth that might happen because Modano's Dog needs his 2nd Porche?
     
  2. futurcorerock

    futurcorerock Registered User

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    When you start hearing from individual players on a massive scale... that means the union has broken.

    Otherwise, they still think theres some kind of fight to be had.
     
  3. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    You're assuming there is a silent majority that secretly wants to play under a salary cap and would accept any offer from the owners. That is where your argument is horribly flawed. Players can speak freely. No one says anything against the union. Maybe that's because no one is against the union. I wouldn't be surprised if a few players thought the way you did, but to suggest it's a majority is ridiculous.

    Besides, these lower-paid guys with the mortgages you speak of made somewhere near $500,000 last year, I think they can manage for a year without a salary and not be forced out on the street.
     
  4. mrs9x

    mrs9x Registered User

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    Most third or fourth line guys who make 500K a year will probably not have enough saved up to last a whole year, especially at the standard of living they are accustomed to. Think about it: after taxes, you are down to 250K already. Then consider that a lot of that money is already tied up in a mortgage, cars, family, etc. It's not as if these guys have a huge war chest sitting around to live off. :shakehead

    Plus, many of these third or fourth liners will only have an NHL career of 4-5 years. So having the lockout take a full year away is really burdensome.

    If I were one of these guys, I'd be furious. The big salary guys are ruining the chances of the lower-paid players, including their development.
     
  5. SuperNintendoChalmrs

    SuperNintendoChalmrs Registered User

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    You are correct. If they do, Bob Goodenow sends his cousin "Joey Three Chins" to pay them a visit.



    :eek:
     
  6. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    Most people could make a $500,000 pay cheque last roughly 10 years without much of a problem. Seeing as the whole world knew there was a possiblity of no season this year, I'm quite sure most of these guys socked some cash away, as they were repeatedly instructed to do so. Plus they're getting $5 or $10k a month from the union, which still represents a healthy salary. If they have to temporarily downsize to the 3,000 sq ft house instead of the $2M mansion, so be it.

    (As an aside, anyone who pays $250k in taxes on a $500k salary is nuts. There's a whole world of tax-deferring plans out there. Besides, taxes aren't that high to start with. If you're referring to Canada, with the upper incremental tax rate near 50%, keep in mind that they earned $500k US, which is much more in $CDN).
     
  7. tantalum

    tantalum Registered User

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    BUt what about the player who was a rookie last year? Or only two years under his belt and might be on the verge of breaking out or establishing a full time role? What about the AHL players who would have been promoted after only receiving a hand full of games last season? What about the guy who has spent his career bouncing between the minors and big league? What about the player that is clinging to an NHL spot who knows he only has another season or two to make bigger money before he drops of the NHL map? These are union members as well. Many are the future union members. Sure the 10 year guy doesn't care much but not everybody is a 10 year guy.
     
  8. mrs9x

    mrs9x Registered User

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    :lol :lol

    You really think these hockey players could make 500K last ten years? Yeah, right. First, in the US, you are going to lose about 40-50% of the 500K in taxes right off the bat between federal, state, and local taxes, depending on which state you live in. I'll even be generous and assume that it is only 1/3 in taxes that the state will take away.

    Assuming 1/3 is taken away, that leaves you with 344K. So over ten years, that is 34.4K a year. That's not a whole lot of money to live on. Sure, they could scrape by, but going from a salary of 500K a year to 34.4K a year would be a HUGE change in lifestyle that is difficult to accomplish.
     
  9. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    They'd lose much more than a third. Don't forget, many U.S. states tax athletes 3 to 9 percent of their income simply for playing in those states. So, for example, even if Patrick Marelau doesn't live in Cali, he's still paying the state 9 percent of his income just for being on a California-based team. The tax man gouges athletes.

    Also, let's not forget 5 percent agent fees.

    This isn't to say hockey players will be waiting in line for bricks of cheese anytime soon. The real damage they're doing is to their futures, not their present.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2005
  10. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    The taxman also allows rich people to find the loopholes to save themselves thousands. But that's beside the point. What's the average gross household income in the US, $40k a year? Before taxes? And the thought (not yours) that these 3rd and 4th line players will be so poverty stricken trying to live on $500k plus union money plus whatever they can get playing in Europe or the AHL for 2 or 3 years will force some kind of mass revolt within the PA is a bit ridiculous.
     
  11. mrs9x

    mrs9x Registered User

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    The point is not that they will be living in poverty, the point is that they would take a tremendous hit in lifestyle. In addition, it is difficult to change mentality from making 500K a year to living off of 34K a year. And make no mistake about it, depending on where you live, 34K is not a lot of money. Try living off that in New York City, for example. I'm not saying that these guys will be in the poor house, it's just that doing so would require a lot of discipline that I'm not sure your average hockey player has.
     
  12. SuperUnknown

    SuperUnknown Registered User

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    I think the mass revolt should come from the fact they're not earning what they could now and they won't earn what they could later either.

    I've heard analysts say that the "NHL pie" could shrink from $2.2B to $1.5B next year if there's no hockey this year. Players have to be lunatic if they think they'll be able to get more than 70% of revenues to themselves. Even at 70% of revenues going to them (which is not going to happen), it makes an average payroll of $35M per team, close to the current minimum payroll allocation of the salary cap. On top of it, they would have missed over $1B this year. Imagine if this goes on another year, payrolls at 70% of revenues could go back to less than $30M on average. Where's the gain for the players? I just don't see it.
     
  13. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    I'm pretty sure they were getting something like 10k a month in lockout pay. And thats probably in US currency. That's still not a bad lifestyle for a 500k a year hockey player to survive on. I wonder though, do they still get the lockout pay if they are working somewhere else (hockey or otherwise)?
     
  14. It has nothing to do with poverty, it has to do with not being a dumbass and not wanting to lose out on 500 thousand dollars a year. If you honestly believe Joe Lunchbucket NHL 4th liner is twiddling his thumbs at home without a care in the world as his bank takes his house away and he sees about 1/4 of his lifetime earnings flushed down the toilet, you are beyond hope. Its become obvious that you are just a blind PA supporter at this point.
     
  15. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Your question suggests that you possess no basic concept of how a union is structured.

    Likewise, it presumes that you and others "know" that the NHLPA membership is in opposition to the stance taken by its leadership.

    Quite the presumption.
     
  16. Wow! I can go from 500 thousand to 120 thousand??? That sounds like a great deal... sign me up! Getting less than 25% of my current salary wont affect my lifestyle at all, you guys are so right. You people have gone so far beyond gulping the kool-aid. I sense that you are actually starting to believe some of these ridiculous things you are saying.
     
  17. It's a fairly safe presumption that the lower end guys are furious. No matter how you 3 or 4 PA guys try and spin it, they are getting the shaft and they know it. The problem is that hockey players are followers. The blindly follow their coaches, captains, union bosses, etc. They followed their last union leader blindly for years even though the guy was selling them down the river.
     
  18. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    Keep in mind that we're talking about real currency, not monopoly board money. Fold up the gameboard, go out into the real world, manage a budget and then see what you'd think about such a cut in income.

    Looking forward to seeing your fellow NHLPA-haters distance themselves from that hysterically naive quote above.

    Sorry, that one ranks up there with "crush them like a grape."

    ***

    "No matter how you 3 or 4 PA guys try and spin it, they are getting the shaft and they know it."

    Yep, there are only 3 or 4 of us in the hockey world who believe that the vast majoirty of the union supports its leadership! What a radical concept! :joker:

    But of course, the players are getting the shaft, they know it, you know it. Just that Goodenow doesn't know it! Or is ignoring it. Were he only to read the wisdom provided on this board, this all would be settled! :lol
     
  19. Chayos

    Chayos Registered User

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    HMM given that The tax rate in Canada is 50% on income of that level then they woudl pay $250k usd in tax. Sure they can take $13,500 and put it it an rrsp they still have to pay 243.500 in taxes. Divide what left by 12 and that 20k a month all of last year.
     
  20. Trottier

    Trottier Very Random

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    You guys are extremely good at managing other people's money, dictating other people lives.

    Stalin would approve. :joker:
     
  21. Chayos

    Chayos Registered User

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    I agree i do not understand how the union is structured, but i do know that any organization has to have some sort of non confidnece clause where with enough support a vote can be brought about to bring down current leadership.

    I also don't know that if there is opposition to the exectuives stances on the cap, but I do know that the union's current stance is particularly hard on the bottom 50% and as such should lead to some questions as to the direction the association is going!
     
  22. rwilson99

    rwilson99 Registered User

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  23. No offense, but you are clueless and what you said makes ZERO sense. Honestly, what kind of fool gladly takes less than 25% of his original slary and is content with it? As hard as you try, you simply can't spin this. Going from 500 thousand to 120 thousand is going to hurt like hell for that persons lifestyle and financial committments. You act as if these guys were living blue collar lifestyles. Wake up, chief. These guys have mortgages, these guys have kids that will need College educations in the future, these guys have wives that are accustumed to the high life. I'm sorry PA sympathiser, earning less than 25% of your normal paycheck is not acceptable to these guys... period. End of story.
     
  24. mackdogs*

    mackdogs* Guest

    Is your guess better than ours? Doubtful.
    I agree fully that the silent majority are furious and would accept the piddly $1.3 - $1.8 million avg salary the league has proposed. I bet a poll would show that the majority of fans also agree.
     
  25. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    Really? How would you know what is "acceptable to these guys". How in the world would you know what their "lifestyle and financial commitments" are or what they are able to live on.

    You are being presumptuous to think that you can speak for them. Not every NHLer has a multi - million dollar mansion and a trophy wife that sits and eats bon bons all day and some *gasp* actually know how to manage their money (or at least have someone do it for them) to prepare for life after hockey. Just because you would blow your earnings doesn't mean everyone else would.
     
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