Where can I show support to the owners?

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by Sled2300, Sep 15, 2004.

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  1. Sled2300

    Sled2300 Registered User

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    Does anybody know where WE the fans can email the NHL and NHLPA to let them know what we think?

    Please post email addresses in this thread or point me to a thread that has this information already.

    Thanks.
     
  2. HckyFght*

    HckyFght* Guest

  3. ohiohabsfan

    ohiohabsfan Registered User

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    :banghead:

    You should definately support the owners, I mean, why wouldn't you support those who gave Bobby Holik 8 million, and Tin Man Pierre Turgeon 7.5 million.

    The players didn't set the ridiculous salary structure. The owners did.
     
  4. Licentia

    Licentia Registered User

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    It's easy to ignore NHLPA fans, because there are so very few of them.

    The results of my poll:

    120 - 82.76% Support Owners
    25 - 17.24% Support NHLPA
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2004
  5. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    Was it the Calgary Flames that gave Bobby Holik 8 million? Or the Ottawa Senators that gave Pierre Turgeon 7.5? You can talk all you want about how the owners are the ones paying these players etc etc but the fact is that it is only a select few that are doing this and all the rest are suffering for it.
     
  6. Toonces

    Toonces The beer kitty

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    He can support whoever he likes, as can you. Make a thread to show your support for the owners.

    As for me, they can both go to hell.
     
  7. Castor Troy

    Castor Troy Registered User

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    To me this is all water under the bridge at this point. Who did what to whom and who gave what to whom doesn't matter anymore. The current situation is that the NHL has lost a considerable amount of money over the duration of the current CBA and it has been shown that the league is not capable of providing an entertaining, financially viable product. Change needs to occur, and pointing fingers is not going to get a deal done. What will get a deal done is both sides finally getting off this stupid "he-said she-said" ******** and coming together with the intent of negotiating a deal that works for all parties. Once again, it does not matter who failed under this system, there has been no indication that the system works as it is and thus, a new approach needs to be taken.
     
  8. Other Dave

    Other Dave Registered User

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    Please explain how signing Holik and Turgeon helped the teams that signed them, and hurt the teams that lost them. Bonus marks if you can show how either signing helped or hurt the Calgary Flames or Ottawa Senators.
     
  9. CH

    CH Registered User

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    In order to show your support for the owners send them your money.

    I received something in the mail about a month ago asking me to buy my 2004/05 Chicago Blackhawk season tickets ( I went to 2 games in the United Center last year in order to see the visiting team). So I could fill out the form and send Bill Wirtz my money if I wished to show him support.

    I am sure the owners would love it if you made a downpayment for your season tickets. They will probably even allow you to get season tickets for next year with that money if it turns out there are no games this year.
     
  10. Licentia

    Licentia Registered User

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    :banghead: NHLPA fans just don't get it. I don't get why they don't get it. :dunno: Do you get why they don't get it? :dunno:
     
  11. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    Alright here I go:

    1) For the first question I would like to refer you to my previous post. I think you`ll notice that nowhere in that post did I say that signing those two players helped their teams. At the same time, those two players were coming off excellent years and the two teams that signed them truely and honestly thought that they would help their team. Both teams could afford to pay the players as they did and so they paid them what they needed to in order to secure their services and (they thought) help their team. Both those deals turned out to be brutal, but at the time the teams were willing to pay what they did to improve their team.

    2)Those signings hurt the other teams because in the current CBA a signing like that has a ripple effect throughout the league and other teams, including small market clubs, are forced to invrease their offers to other UFAs and their own RFAs.

    Now lets see if i can get the bonus, oh god this is exciting :banana:
    These two signings hurt teams like Calgary and Ottawa because they continued to inflate the supposed "market value" of players. As a result the Calgary Flames are forced to pay Jarome Iginla 7.5 million while he is still a RFA (!) and Ottawa are forced to give huge raises to players like Hossa, Alfredsson, Havlat and Chara.
     
  12. Licentia

    Licentia Registered User

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    :shakehead
     
  13. ohiohabsfan

    ohiohabsfan Registered User

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    I'm not an "NHLPA" fan, but it grates on me to hear Bettman talking about how the salary structure is out of whack when the owners are paying the salaries. If you don't want to sign Bobby Holik for 8 million, or Pavel Bure for 10 million, then don't.

    Bettman is not part of the solution, he's the majority of the problem. If I was the leader of the NHLPA I wouldn't want to negotiate with him either.

    That being said, the players bear responsibility for the current problem too.
     
  14. Licentia

    Licentia Registered User

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    :lol :lol :lol

    These NHLPA fans are fun eh?

    Then he'll come back with: "It's the GM's fault for paying too much, you said it yourself."

    Then we'll come back with: "It's not too much for a large market team. What is a good value for a large market team however, is not economical for a small market team."

    And on and on it goes. NHLPA rehashed brown arguments for breakfast. They are just like that bad guy in Terminator 2. (I never watched the movie) That guy who took a bullet through the head and then had his head reform itself. You shoot down their arguments, but they keep coming back over and over.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2004
  15. Ozy_Flame

    Ozy_Flame Registered User

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    And this is why the Rangers are listed as losing money. Some of the owners obiouvsly make bone-head decisions, but the signings of outrageous contracts like Bure's and Holik's is part of the vast minority of players that actually get paid these contracts. Of the almost 600 players in the NHL, can you name more than 30 players who have gotten paid millions beyond their worth? I can't. That being said, if the owners are losing money on 'average-priced' contracts with an average salary of $1.8 million, then these overpriced players are not to blame - it's the average players that are setting the mean, not the few outliers who barely skew the data in general.
     
  16. Darth Vitale

    Darth Vitale Dark Matter

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    No one should support the owners until they provide PROOF of their specific operating losses, team by team. I for one wouldn't be at all surprised if they're cooking the books to make a bad situation look terrible, and subsequently demand a hard cap.

    If you want the cap, FINE... then provide REAL PROOF that a cap is required. Don't ask players and everyone else to take your word for it. There's a reason why public companies have to have some financial transparency and post their SEC reports every quarter, etc.

    The NHL - in this scenario - should do the same.
     
  17. Sled2300

    Sled2300 Registered User

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    Didn't Bettman say that they offered to have the NHLPA come in with thier own bean counters and view the books.

    Didn't the NHLPA sit down the end of August and go through team by team operations.

    YES on both accounts. NHLPA wants to maintain marketplace because they know that is what is going to result in the greatest amount of money in the players pockets. Are the owners going to pay the higher prices that players demand? NO we the fans will with higher ticket prices which will result in contraction of teams.

    These arguments are off topic. I myself have emailed the president of the Calgary Flames to show my support and to let the owners know that I will not support any league that has NHLPA members on it's roster.

    I'm looking for an emial address to express this to the NHLPA. Any suggestions?
     
  18. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    What else can they do? They have gone out and gotten an independant economist to look at the league`s financial situation, they have made that report public and they have invited the NHLPA to come look at their books. The NHL has done all they can to give an accurate and detailed account of every NHL team and yet the NHLPA simply disregards the results. If the NHLPA wants to refute the numbers found by the NHL and the Levitt report that is fine, but at least have the decency to hire your own expert and study the league yourself. I for one beleive the Levitt report until the NHLPA can hire a well respected economist that studies the NHL and says otherwise.
     
  19. Other Dave

    Other Dave Registered User

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    So if they are brutal acquisitions, as signings of this kind most usually are, then what do we care what kind of money they make?

    2)Those signings hurt the other teams because in the current CBA a signing like that has a ripple effect throughout the league and other teams, including small market clubs, are forced to invrease their offers to other UFAs and their own RFAs.[/quote]

    UFA signings have 0 effect on RFA money. This is currently hardwired into the CBA.

    But we're talking about specific players. In your opinion, how did the Holik and Turgeon signing effect other, specific salaries?

    You are, unfortunately, completely mistaken. Calgary is paying Iginla 7.5 million because he brings that value to the table, and because he would probably be worth that in arbitration. OTHER RFA's help to set the value of an RFA, but a UFA doesn't.
     
  20. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    So your saying that for example, if a UFA that has been averaging ~60 pts per season and signs with a team for $6M, other players that average ~60 pts per season are not going to hold out for similar money?

    And if all these players with the huge contracts are bringing that value to the table, why are so many teams losing money? Maybe they are not bringing as much value to the team as you would like to think? :dunno:
     
  21. Other Dave

    Other Dave Registered User

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    I actually am saying that, but just to put a face on your example, can you give me a specific circumstance where a 60-point player held out because a UFA with similar offensive output was making way more money?

    Players DO hold out and DO get raises, but in most of those situations they are underpaid to begin with. Most players in the NHL never see the kind of money you're talking about, or are left unqualified when their salary doesn't match their performance.

    I think it's pretty clear that the owners are full of crap, since it's business as usual apart from the lockout (teams selling for a quarter billion dollars, players signed for close to eight-figure salaries, etc).
     
  22. Chelios

    Chelios Registered User

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    Do you think they just pick these salaries out of a hat? Market value is determined by what other similar players are making. I used the example of Iginla because IMO it is rediculous, even as good as Iginla is, that a 27 year old RFA is making that kind of money. That is the sign of a broken system that needs to be fixed.

    You say that other RFAs set the value for RFAs. Well those "other" RFAs as you call them have to determine their value as well and they do that by comparing themselves to other players, UFA or not.
     
  23. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    Let's see...

    Yashin had a signed contract, which at the time he signed it made him one of the higher paid players. Before that contract expired he held out because...

    Satan was being paid in the $3.5M to $4.5M range when his contract expired, He held out to get paid over $5M...

    Peca wanted to be paid $4M to $4.5M, the Sabres only offered $3.5M, so he held out...

    And yes, many of them do get unqualified. But all it takes is for one owner that doesn't care if he losses money or not to pay a player more than he is worth, then the rest of the owners have to pay more because every player looks at what that one got and wants to be paid accordingly.


    One team is being sold for $250M, and that is for both the team and the arena. Most teams in recent history are selling for ~$80M. And I could be mistaken, but didn't I just read that the Ducks may be sold for ~$50M?
     
  24. Other Dave

    Other Dave Registered User

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    None of this actually answers my question, which is:

    However, one of the examples that you *did* cite had nothing to do with the CBA, and in fact was a serious breach of that contract.
     
  25. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    I mentioned all these players because they were all well paid, and were holding out for the going market rate for good players. The one that was a serious breach of contract, just wanted to be the highest paid player in the leaague. You want specific UFA's these guys were looking at, well, I don't have that, and have no desire to search for it. You can if you want. Regardless, it does not make it any less true that every time someone signs a player to a higher contract, the rest of the players are going to try to get as close to that as they can.
     
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