What's Your Prediction for Athanasiou's Future?

[masta8]

First, 15-17% shooting percentage tends to be unsustainable. League average is actually 9%. Only 20 of 509 that played 41 games or more, had a shooting percentage of 17 or higher. Only 51 of those 509 had over 15%. That represents the top 10% of shooters in the NHL. Also AA was 4th in goal scoring. You forgot about Tatar. But whatever. Being 4th with 16 goals is pretty pathetic. And what about those 10+ game stretches (yes there were many of them) where he didn't score a goal? He scored in less than 20% of the games he played in. That's not an elite goal scorer. That's not even a very good one. I fully expect Ras and Svech to replace his goal scoring.

Second, you might not say that, but the stats say that AA played a majority of his time on one of three different lines. Mantha played most of his time split between 4 different line combinations and Larkin played between 7 different combinations. So, what you saw and what the reality were might not be the same.

Third that was the number Russia offered him, he reportedly wanted between 2.5 and 3. That's way more than what he's worth and him trying to play off the KHL shows he doesn't want to abide by the how the CBA was set up by jumping leagues.

Lastly, its funny that Mantha, who is a confident person could take ownership, and Z can, and Larkin can, but somehow AA gets a pass. People are giving up on him because he's showing all the signs of letting his ego and his laziness greatly overshadow his abilities. Attitude problems have sunk a lot of careers and he's not shown he's grown up since was a teen in the CHL.

First, I am not talking about the NHL as a whole and there shooting percentages, AA has had a very good shooting percentage his whole professional career prior to this year. 15 and 17% in the first two NHL seasons and 13.7 and 14.8% in his two AHL seasons. For a player who has increased his shots per game each season and as you like to mention about increased ice time.. what makes you believe he will continue to have a shooting percentage around this year's percentage and regress in goal scoring again?

Second, please send me the data where AA played on three different lines and Mantha played on 4 different line combinations. I watched almost every game this season and if Mantha wasn't with Z on the first line, he would be with Larkin on the 2nd. AA, would be a left winger for Larkin, to centre on the 4th line, to being a right winger for Nielsen.

Third, of course Russia would offer a higher number then his value, how else would they get a young Canadian to leave the NHL to play in Russia? I never saw one Red Wings reporter mention him asking anywhere close to 3 million in his bridge deal offer. But after scoring 18 goals and having one of the best points and goals per 60 minutes in the NHL I would have been looking for more then 1.38 million too....

Lastly, what ownership are you referring to? I vividly remember AA's locker room clean out interview at the end of the season and a reporter asking him if it was frustrating that he was going from 20 to 13 to 17 minutes a game without any consistency and him responding with how it's a business and you have to be ready to play when called and do whatever you can to help the team... I find it puzzling that you refer to AA having an ego but usually people with egos have trouble getting along with teammates and like I mentioned on last post he seems to get along with everyone the team. The only issue I have with him is possibly overconfident with his abilities. I am also certain majority of the NHL players are more confident in there abilities then there play dictates.

There is really no reason to trade AA at this point in his career. His trade value is at an all time low. The best we could really hope for at this point is a 2nd round pick which would have a very small chance that the pick ever even reaches AA's level. He is still an RFA so I would give him another 1 or 2 year deal and see how it plays out. He can still score goals and can continue to be a valuable 3rd line scorer if nothing else. He is also still very young with a load of potential and could find his game. He really needs to get his act together this offseason and train really hard to become more defensively responsible.

This is exactly what I think needs to happen. I would offer him a 1-2 year deal, see what kind of player he can become, and if his play isn't up to par then look elsewhere. At the worse, he can become a third liner with goal scoring ability, most quality teams have three strong lines that can produce so wouldn't have an issue. I strongly believe with a full training camp and less contract distractions he will have a season similar to 2016-17 then 2017-18.

 

[Hen Kolland]

But after scoring 18 goals and having one of the best points and goals per 60 minutes in the NHL I would have been looking for more then 1.38 million too....

I know that you are looking at this in retrospect and how you would approach things if you were him; I don't want to come off as directing this post at you. I'm just using your post as a lead in to vent in general.

I hate these rates that are being used as gospel nowadays. Frk posted the 4th best G/60 and second best P/60 on the team this year...am I supposed to think that he is a threat to become one of the best players on the team? Suppressed time and favorable deployment is going to inflate the number. There's just more to the story than fancy stats.

I like AA's natural abilities. I want to believe he figures it out and I would give him the chance to do so, but can we please stop using his scoring rates as if they prove something that his total stat line doesn't? This year he got extra ice time and we got to see if his stat line was going to take a step forward to match his scoring rates, or if his scoring rates would regress to match his stat line. It ended up being the latter and people are concerned, justifiably so. If people want to trade him ASAP, I can't fault them. I also would be an advocate of trading him for the right return; I just wouldn't be actively shopping him for whatever the best offer is.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Third, of course Russia would offer a higher number then his value, how else would they get a young Canadian to leave the NHL to play in Russia?

Actually, KHL teams don't need to offer a higher number than what a player is worth in the NHL. They could've offered AA the same dollar amount Holland was, and AA would've made more. That NHL contract pretty much gets cut in half from Escrow and federal and state taxes, while a KHL contract faces no Escrow and little to no taxes. Plus, they can get performance bonuses on those contracts that AA can't get in the NHL at his age.

I never saw one Red Wings reporter mention him asking anywhere close to 3 million in his bridge deal offer. But after scoring 18 goals and having one of the best points and goals per 60 minutes in the NHL I would have been looking for more then 1.38 million too....

$1.9M a season was on the table as well... and judging by how this past season went, he probably should've taken in...

 

[njx9]

little to no taxes

This isn't really true. US citizens, and as far as I can tell, Canadian citizens both pay income tax on money earned abroad.

 

[masta8]

I know that you are looking at this in retrospect and how you would approach things if you were him; I don't want to come off as directing this post at you. I'm just using your post as a lead in to vent in general.

I hate these rates that are being used as gospel nowadays. Frk posted the 4th best G/60 and second best P/60 on the team this year...am I supposed to think that he is a threat to become one of the best players on the team? Suppressed time and favorable deployment is going to inflate the number. There's just more to the story than fancy stats.

I like AA's natural abilities. I want to believe he figures it out and I would give him the chance to do so, but can we please stop using his scoring rates as if they prove something that his total stat line doesn't? This year he got extra ice time and we got to see if his stat line was going to take a step forward to match his scoring rates, or if his scoring rates would regress to match his stat line. It ended up being the latter and people are concerned, justifiably so. If people want to trade him ASAP, I can't fault them. I also would be an advocate of trading him for the right return; I just wouldn't be actively shopping him for whatever the best offer is.

I respect your point about the G/60 and P/60, maybe that doesn't give you the full picture but it certainly gives you an idea that he is effective when he is giving the ice time. Also, Frk's G/60 and 2nd best P/60 is indicative of the fact half his points came from the PP.. meanwhile AA only has 2 PP goals out of his 34 goals the past two seasons...
I do agree with you that I would only trade him for the best offer, but only if it brings back a high draft pick or top 4 d. It is clearly evident that lot of fans want to give up on him, but I will continue to defend him and want him to have a second chance to prove himself. He is 23, he has a rare skillset and speed and unlike some people on this forum, I just want him to have a successful season for the Wings and help us push back into a playoff team. I agree, I expected him to put up 20-25 goals and 45-50 points this season, but it was only his second full season and I wouldn't want to give up up on him... I'm sure a lot of teams regret giving Vegas players they thought were scrubs...

Actually, KHL teams don't need to offer a higher number than what a player is worth in the NHL. They could've offered AA the same dollar amount Holland was, and AA would've made more. That NHL contract pretty much gets cut in half from Escrow and federal and state taxes, while a KHL contract faces no Escrow and little to no taxes. Plus, they can get performance bonuses on those contracts that AA can't get in the NHL at his age.

Please give me an example of a young Canadian who went to the KHL at 23 with the same amount of money as the NHL team was offering him. There would be no reason for him to go to KHL other then go for the money, and he didn't.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I do agree with you that I would only trade him for the best offer, but only if it brings back a high draft pick or top 4 d. It is clearly evident that lot of fans want to give up on him, but I will continue to defend him and want him to have a second chance to prove himself. He is 23, he has a rare skillset and speed and unlike some people on this forum, I just want him to have a successful season for the Wings and help us push back into a playoff team. I agree, I expected him to put up 20-25 goals and 45-50 points this season, but it was only his second full season and I wouldn't want to give up up on him... I'm sure a lot of teams regret giving Vegas players they thought were scrubs...

And building off your point, there is still plenty of optimism that Mantha can become a 30+ goal scorer going into his 3rd full year. Hard to give Mantha a vote of confidence that we can see a fairly large step forward in year 3, but anticipate that Athanasiou isn't capable of the same. We can look at Larkin to gain a little comfort in possibility of improvement; maybe Athanasiou just had a sophomore slump. I will say that this is my make or break year coming up. Put up or shut up. Both as a professional and a hockey player. Do and say the right things and give us an indication of growth as a player, and I'll be on board.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Please give me an example of a young Canadian who went to the KHL at 23 with the same amount of money as the NHL team was offering him. There would be no reason for him to go to KHL other then go for the money, and he didn't.

I didn't say that he would take the offer, just that he would hypothetically make more at the same amount. Otherwise I agree, that scenario would obviously be more favorable to a European player.

 

[Frk It]

And building off your point, there is still plenty of optimism that Mantha can become a 30+ goal scorer going into his 3rd full year. Hard to give Mantha a vote of confidence that we can see a fairly large step forward in year 3, but anticipate that Athanasiou isn't capable of the same.

Mantha has always been the better player.

We can look at Larkin to gain a little comfort in possibility of improvement; maybe Athanasiou just had a sophomore slump.

Who do you think works harder out of those two?

 

[Hen Kolland]

Mantha has always been the better player.



Who do you think works harder out of those two?

Let's not get carried away with assumptions of what I'm inferring...Mantha is the better player, Larkin is the harder worker, and my post was not to say that AA will ever improve at or to the level of the other two.

If Mantha can grow from 24 goals to 30+ from this year to next year, if Larkin can go from 17g/15a/32p in year two to 16g/47a/63p in year three, we saw and are hoping for some kind of progression. If they can demonstrate improvements between year two and three, why can't we also hope that we see an equivalent improvement for AA? If we hope Mantha improves to a 30/30/60 guy next year, why can we not hope that AA can improve to a 20/20/40 or 25/20/45 guy?

 

[Frk It]

If they can demonstrate improvements between year two and three, why can't we also hope that we see an equivalent improvement for AA? If we hope Mantha improves to a 30/30/60 guy next year, why can we not hope that AA can improve to a 20/20/40 or 25/20/45 guy?

If we just agreed he's not as talented as Mantha, or hard working as Larkin... not sure why you would expect equivalent improvement.

 

[odin1981]

If we just agreed he's not as talented as Mantha, or hard working as Larkin... not sure why you would expect equivalent improvement.

If he was given top 6 time with a very good/great center you might be very surprised at his production. Though I don't see that happening here in Detroit. A example for instance would be like say he was on a wing of McDavid or Thorton they would be able to spring him and have vision to utilize him for huge gains point wise. Unfortunately if we had that type on the wings we would price him outta Detroit with all our recent past cap mismanagement.

 

[Hen Kolland]

If we just agreed he's not as talented as Mantha, or hard working as Larkin... not sure why you would expect equivalent improvement.

No expectations...this is all just living on a prayer, if you will.

 

[masta8]

If we just agreed he's not as talented as Mantha, or hard working as Larkin... not sure why you would expect equivalent improvement.

So because he is not as strong a player he is unable to improve at a similar level as Larkin and Mantha? So Larkin can go from 63 points to 70 points next year but because AA is not as good a player he is not talented enough to go from 33 points to 40 points? They have different statistical expectations but I don't see there being a reason why he can't improve at similar rate as other teammates superior to him.

 

[Frk It]

So because he is not as strong a player he is unable to improve at a similar level as Larkin and Mantha? So Larkin can go from 63 points to 70 points next year but because AA is not as good a player he is not talented enough to go from 33 points to 40 points? They have different statistical expectations but I don't see there being a reason why he can't improve at similar rate as other teammates superior to him.

I think he will improve, but not going to expect him to improve as much as Larkin did, that's for sure. Larkin went from 15 assists to 47 assists. That's HUGE (and we were talking about Larkin improving on his sophomore season if you follow the posts).

Maybe closer to what Mantha did is possible. 17 goals to 24 goals, 36 pts to 48 pts. Maybe something along those lines. But he is going to need to get more IT to make those improvements, and he has been pretty unwilling to do what his coaches ask to get more IT. So I don't know if it will happen for him or not. I personally think he will be on another team in the near future, here, which is too bad because I always liked him as a prospect and player.

 

[Shaman464]

First, I am not talking about the NHL as a whole and there shooting percentages, AA has had a very good shooting percentage his whole professional career prior to this year. 15 and 17% in the first two NHL seasons and 13.7 and 14.8% in his two AHL seasons. For a player who has increased his shots per game each season and as you like to mention about increased ice time.. what makes you believe he will continue to have a shooting percentage around this year's percentage and regress in goal scoring again?

Second, please send me the data where AA played on three different lines and Mantha played on 4 different line combinations. I watched almost every game this season and if Mantha wasn't with Z on the first line, he would be with Larkin on the 2nd. AA, would be a left winger for Larkin, to centre on the 4th line, to being a right winger for Nielsen.

Third, of course Russia would offer a higher number then his value, how else would they get a young Canadian to leave the NHL to play in Russia? I never saw one Red Wings reporter mention him asking anywhere close to 3 million in his bridge deal offer. But after scoring 18 goals and having one of the best points and goals per 60 minutes in the NHL I would have been looking for more then 1.38 million too....

Lastly, what ownership are you referring to? I vividly remember AA's locker room clean out interview at the end of the season and a reporter asking him if it was frustrating that he was going from 20 to 13 to 17 minutes a game without any consistency and him responding with how it's a business and you have to be ready to play when called and do whatever you can to help the team... I find it puzzling that you refer to AA having an ego but usually people with egos have trouble getting along with teammates and like I mentioned on last post he seems to get along with everyone the team. The only issue I have with him is possibly overconfident with his abilities. I am also certain majority of the NHL players are more confident in there abilities then there play dictates.



This is exactly what I think needs to happen. I would offer him a 1-2 year deal, see what kind of player he can become, and if his play isn't up to par then look elsewhere. At the worse, he can become a third liner with goal scoring ability, most quality teams have three strong lines that can produce so wouldn't have an issue. I strongly believe with a full training camp and less contract distractions he will have a season similar to 2016-17 then 2017-18.

First, about a 14% shooting percentage on average translates to about a 10-11% shooting percentage in the NHL. People have made the graphs and shooting percentage in the NHL is equal to about 0.78 times the AHL shooting percentage. So his percentage this last season is much closer to what would be predicted based on his AHL performance. Also in his first two seasons combined he played only 109 minutes more than he played in this last season, so there is a case for his stats being sampling error and given a much larger sample size his number returned to normal. A great example of that is his g/60. He peaked at 4th in the NHL when he only played 330 minutes. That's only between 20 and 33% of the time that the others played. The guy lead the NHL in 2015, when AA was fourth was Tyler Randell a 6th round draft pick in Boston who is shaping up to be a career AHL player. He played about half the time AA played meaning he was closer in ice time to AA than AA was to the other top 10 players in g/60. Do you think Randell is better than Matthews, McDavid, and Stamkos? Or was it a fluke that players who play under 350 or so minutes and score a few goals might be inflated compared to players who play over 1000? And its funny that AA's shooting percentage and goals per 60 both dropped steadily as his time increased with the Wings which points to normalization of an inflated number. But, what would I know? I only use statistics for my research and have looked at how small n's lead to misleading results...

Second, the data I am using only shows line combination at even strength if you count literally ever line combination he had 107 different line combinations, only 4 of them he spent more than a few minutes on (the median minutes per line is 2 minutes total time on ice, which would correspond time spent in the middle of line changes). Larkin was over 120 if you count every player combination he spent at least one second on the ice with, same with Mantha. But when you weed it down to players they spent more than a few minutes with all season, AA bounced around the least of any of them. So again, unless you're talking about combinations that had less than a few minutes over the whole season, AA spent the majority of his time on very few line combos.

Third, they have young Canadians. Mostly those who can't make it in the NHL. And AA was using it as a bargaining chip, there was no real chance he'd play there. Reports show he wanted a deal near what he was getting offered there, and rejecting the Red Wings deal of nearly 2 million a season. And he didn't have the best pp/g or g/60 in the NHL, he peaked at 4th when he had 300 minutes played.

Fourth, your memory must be bad because he clearly said he felt he wasn't being used correctly. He took no ownership of his inconsistency or drop in raw, adjusted and advanced stats despite getting more minutes and every other young forward taking steps forward.

 

[waltdetroit]

The area AA needs to improve most is away from the puck. If he gets more points with more minutes, it's just the same old AA

 

[masta8]

First, about a 14% shooting percentage on average translates to about a 10-11% shooting percentage in the NHL. People have made the graphs and shooting percentage in the NHL is equal to about 0.78 times the AHL shooting percentage. So his percentage this last season is much closer to what would be predicted based on his AHL performance. Also in his first two seasons combined he played only 109 minutes more than he played in this last season, so there is a case for his stats being sampling error and given a much larger sample size his number returned to normal. A great example of that is his g/60. He peaked at 4th in the NHL when he only played 330 minutes. That's only between 20 and 33% of the time that the others played. The guy lead the NHL in 2015, when AA was fourth was Tyler Randell a 6th round draft pick in Boston who is shaping up to be a career AHL player. He played about half the time AA played meaning he was closer in ice time to AA than AA was to the other top 10 players in g/60. Do you think Randell is better than Matthews, McDavid, and Stamkos? Or was it a fluke that players who play under 350 or so minutes and score a few goals might be inflated compared to players who play over 1000? And its funny that AA's shooting percentage and goals per 60 both dropped steadily as his time increased with the Wings which points to normalization of an inflated number. But, what would I know? I only use statistics for my research and have looked at how small n's lead to misleading results...

Second, the data I am using only shows line combination at even strength if you count literally ever line combination he had 107 different line combinations, only 4 of them he spent more than a few minutes on (the median minutes per line is 2 minutes total time on ice, which would correspond time spent in the middle of line changes). Larkin was over 120 if you count every player combination he spent at least one second on the ice with, same with Mantha. But when you weed it down to players they spent more than a few minutes with all season, AA bounced around the least of any of them. So again, unless you're talking about combinations that had less than a few minutes over the whole season, AA spent the majority of his time on very few line combos.

Third, they have young Canadians. Mostly those who can't make it in the NHL. And AA was using it as a bargaining chip, there was no real chance he'd play there. Reports show he wanted a deal near what he was getting offered there, and rejecting the Red Wings deal of nearly 2 million a season. And he didn't have the best pp/g or g/60 in the NHL, he peaked at 4th when he had 300 minutes played.

Fourth, your memory must be bad because he clearly said he felt he wasn't being used correctly. He took no ownership of his inconsistency or drop in raw, adjusted and advanced stats despite getting more minutes and every other young forward taking steps forward.

First, I find it hysterical that you brought up the fact that the sample size is small and how you can't compare his G/60 and P/60 to players like Matthews, McDavid and Stamkos then bring up a guy who only played 27 games in 15-16. AA played in 64 games and 37 the previous year and if your going to make an argument about sample size then don't bring up a guy who played in 27 games?

You make it seem like every player is going to get better each season.. that when there young they won't have a season they don't meet expectations. When Larkin went from 45 points to 32 points, as well as from a +11 to a -28 in his sophomore season I'm sure you weren't ripping the kid apart on forums because he had a bad sophomore season. I certainly wasn't worried and Larkin bounced back and had a great season. You can't just give up on a young player because he had a rough season. Another example, Columbus gave up on Will Karlsson because in his second season he went from 9 goals and 20 points to 6 goals and 25 points and didn't have the sophomore season I'm sure Jackets fans and management were hoping for. Then look what happens.. gets a chance to play consistent minutes with consistent linemates and had a break out season. For a guy that likes to look at the numbers were talking about a guy who combined for 15 goals in his first two seasons, compared to a guy who had 34...

Second, send me a link of these line combinations because I still curious where this information is coming from, I am not claiming your making it up just curious to look at this information for my own interest..

Third, the young Canadians your referring of are the players who are not good enough to play in the NHL. Not one sane NHL quality player from Canada would choose to play in Russia unless the money was significantly more then the offer the NHL team was offering. Where is the report he wanted around 3 million????? As a AA fan, I was very involved with the contract negotiation drama he had last year and not once I read he wanted 3 mill from the Wings. Yes he had a 1.9 offer he rejected for 2 years, but he bet on himself and likely lost money.

Fourth, I just rewatched the clip on the Red Wings website of the full interview. He seemed like there was not one time he took a shot at Blashill other then you usually produce more when you play more... don't seem anything wrong with that. You also forget to mention how highly he talks about the organization being one of the best in the NHL and hopes to come back. I don't think he needs to "take ownership" and announce to the world he had a bad season. Everyone knows it and why doesn't every player minus Larkin also announce to the media they had a bad season too? AA could score 48 goals next year and 89 points and you wouldn't be satisfied because he didn't score 50 or 90 points.

 

[Pavels Dog]

"Hidden potential" is just another way of saying not being a factor on a regular basis.

I don't think there's any value in a player who could possibly be able to carry a team for a short stretch. Any positive value that Athanasiou's ability to go on a hot streak is equally or more than negated by the stretches where he has zero impact on games. If I'm keeping AA around, it's because I expect his consistency to come around as an impact player more than he is invisible on the ice. His ability right now is to maybe serve as a spark plug for 2-3 games, but we have never really seen him carry a team. His best stretch this year came in November when he had a 4 game stretch with 4 goals and 2 assists, other than that he had one point streak that hit 3 games with 2 goals and 1 assist.

Right now he is trending towards being like Michael Grabner, a middle 6, 30-40 point plug in. Or Carl Hagelin. He will have a job, but he really won't get the treatment or the money he is hoping for.

He had a 10-game stretch with 11 points. Are we only counting point streaks or what? The thing is, he didn't have a great season. But he's 23, had a rocky start with missed training camp, and was bounced around the lineup on a bad team. Probably not ideal conditions.
I'm not sure what you want out of a depth player, but they're not supposed to be factors on a regular basis. That's why they're depth players, because they only make an impact some of the time. Yeah AA is a little too inconsistent with his effort, but that goes both ways. When he's good, he's much better than the average bottom 6 player. When he's bad, he's someone that should get <10 minutes. That's something he absolutely needs to work on, no matter what he ends up being.
But did you predict Johan Franzen to step in while stars were injured and break out into an elite scorer? That is what hidden potential means. Having players on the team that have upside beyond what they're showing. AA's potential could be unlocked by a new coach. Or by rebuilding our D to make our transition game stronger and feed him lots of pucks in stride. It could be a question of personal maturity for him. Maybe he finds some sick chemistry with Rasmussen or some other guy we draft? Or he stays what he is. But the point is he's 23, has huge untapped potential and is an RFA. We have no reason to trade him unless we get an offer that's really great, which we won't.

 

[Red Stanley]

Whether he wants to stay or not depends largely on him. There's no need to actively look to trade him away at this point. He certainly has the talent to be a core player, though it doesn't look like he has the work ethic to become one. It's no secret that what we need most right now is young, talented core players.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Let's not get carried away with assumptions of what I'm inferring...Mantha is the better player, Larkin is the harder worker, and my post was not to say that AA will ever improve at or to the level of the other two.

If Mantha can grow from 24 goals to 30+ from this year to next year, if Larkin can go from 17g/15a/32p in year two to 16g/47a/63p in year three, we saw and are hoping for some kind of progression. If they can demonstrate improvements between year two and three, why can't we also hope that we see an equivalent improvement for AA? If we hope Mantha improves to a 30/30/60 guy next year, why can we not hope that AA can improve to a 20/20/40 or 25/20/45 guy?

Because AA has shown nothing in two full NHL seasons to assume that he's going to improve? He got about 2 more minutes of IT a night this year and played in 7 more games total... and he scored 4 more points than he did the previous year.

Larkin and Mantha's improvements have jack squat to do with AA for the very reasons that you say to not get carried away with. They improved because they worked harder, got more comfortable on their line, or both. AA needs to show that he's actually going to put in the work to get to playing better with consistency before you should have any hope for a significant improvement.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

He had a 10-game stretch with 11 points. Are we only counting point streaks or what? The thing is, he didn't have a great season. But he's 23, had a rocky start with missed training camp, and was bounced around the lineup on a bad team. Probably not ideal conditions.
I'm not sure what you want out of a depth player, but they're not supposed to be factors on a regular basis. That's why they're depth players, because they only make an impact some of the time. Yeah AA is a little too inconsistent with his effort, but that goes both ways. When he's good, he's much better than the average bottom 6 player. When he's bad, he's someone that should get <10 minutes. That's something he absolutely needs to work on, no matter what he ends up being.
But did you predict Johan Franzen to step in while stars were injured and break out into an elite scorer? That is what hidden potential means. Having players on the team that have upside beyond what they're showing. AA's potential could be unlocked by a new coach. Or by rebuilding our D to make our transition game stronger and feed him lots of pucks in stride. It could be a question of personal maturity for him. Maybe he finds some sick chemistry with Rasmussen or some other guy we draft? Or he stays what he is. But the point is he's 23, has huge untapped potential and is an RFA. We have no reason to trade him unless we get an offer that's really great, which we won't.

AA's potential could be unlocked if he got his head out of his own ass and focused on playing in every game like he does in those 20 minute IT games where he looks unstoppable. It has NOTHING to do with his coaching and everything to do with what's going on between his ears. Whether it is a confidence thing or a focus thing or a completely lacking hockey sense thing... it is an Andreas Athanasiou problem.

 

[Goalie guy]

AA's potential could be unlocked if he got his head out of his own ass and focused on playing in every game like he does in those 20 minute IT games where he looks unstoppable. It has NOTHING to do with his coaching and everything to do with what's going on between his ears. Whether it is a confidence thing or a focus thing or a completely lacking hockey sense thing... it is an Andreas Athanasiou problem.

Is that not the coaches job? To teach and get the most he can out of all his players, to put them in a spot to perform to the best of their skill set, find a line combo that works and stick with it? Not that I disagree it has a lot to do with him but I think it's on both of them at this point. Everyone here is so quick to jump on players for not doing their job but no one wants to say bad coaching bad drafting and bad asset management have led us all here as well. things are a mess right now all the way around.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Whether he wants to stay or not depends largely on him. There's no need to actively look to trade him away at this point. He certainly has the talent to be a core player, though it doesn't look like he has the work ethic to become one. It's no secret that what we need most right now is young, talented core players.

Why limit it to "core"? We need talented players, period. Dangle AA's name in trade discussions, sure, but unless the trade return is actually a young, talented core player why move him just because he might never be more than a depth scorer? Those players are still needed.

AA's potential could be unlocked if he got his head out of his own ass and focused on playing in every game like he does in those 20 minute IT games where he looks unstoppable. It has NOTHING to do with his coaching and everything to do with what's going on between his ears. Whether it is a confidence thing or a focus thing or a completely lacking hockey sense thing... it is an Andreas Athanasiou problem.

Same thing has been said about countless players that went to new teams or new coaches and suddenly started putting it together. It's absolutely possible that AA would thrive under a new type of coach. That doesn't have to mean Blashill is a problem, just that AA is one of those players that need the right kind of push and right kind of coaching to reach his potential and maybe Blash isn't giving him that.

 

[Lampedampe]

AA has literally all the tools to become a consistent top-6 forward, his speed/skill/size all combine for a great player on paper.

I feel like what really limits AA is himself and how he's used the system. If AA brings himself together and structures his own play and is properly used by the coach I could easily see him as a consistent 50pt guy, perhaps peaking with a 60pt season or 2.

When he's not feeling it i honestly wonder what he does on the ice, there doesn't seem to be structure or a goal with his play, he's just there basicly. But whenever he's feeling it on the ice he's probably our best player at times. I feel like AA can learn a thing or two from what Larkin did going into this season, Larkin looked way more structured and he wasn't just skating up and down the ice at fill speed, his change up of pace really made wonders to his overall play. I just don't think that AA is utilizing his speed in a efficient way atm, it's too much straight line full speed ahead all the time.

While I doubt he ends up in Vegas I truly believe that Vegas would be a good team for him. They have great speed and structure and AA could really flourish there if he bought into their system.

 

[Shaman464]

First, I find it hysterical that you brought up the fact that the sample size is small and how you can't compare his G/60 and P/60 to players like Matthews, McDavid and Stamkos then bring up a guy who only played 27 games in 15-16. AA played in 64 games and 37 the previous year and if your going to make an argument about sample size then don't bring up a guy who played in 27 games?

You make it seem like every player is going to get better each season.. that when there young they won't have a season they don't meet expectations. When Larkin went from 45 points to 32 points, as well as from a +11 to a -28 in his sophomore season I'm sure you weren't ripping the kid apart on forums because he had a bad sophomore season. I certainly wasn't worried and Larkin bounced back and had a great season. You can't just give up on a young player because he had a rough season. Another example, Columbus gave up on Will Karlsson because in his second season he went from 9 goals and 20 points to 6 goals and 25 points and didn't have the sophomore season I'm sure Jackets fans and management were hoping for. Then look what happens.. gets a chance to play consistent minutes with consistent linemates and had a break out season. For a guy that likes to look at the numbers were talking about a guy who combined for 15 goals in his first two seasons, compared to a guy who had 34...

Second, send me a link of these line combinations because I still curious where this information is coming from, I am not claiming your making it up just curious to look at this information for my own interest..

Third, the young Canadians your referring of are the players who are not good enough to play in the NHL. Not one sane NHL quality player from Canada would choose to play in Russia unless the money was significantly more then the offer the NHL team was offering. Where is the report he wanted around 3 million????? As a AA fan, I was very involved with the contract negotiation drama he had last year and not once I read he wanted 3 mill from the Wings. Yes he had a 1.9 offer he rejected for 2 years, but he bet on himself and likely lost money.

Fourth, I just rewatched the clip on the Red Wings website of the full interview. He seemed like there was not one time he took a shot at Blashill other then you usually produce more when you play more... don't seem anything wrong with that. You also forget to mention how highly he talks about the organization being one of the best in the NHL and hopes to come back. I don't think he needs to "take ownership" and announce to the world he had a bad season. Everyone knows it and why doesn't every player minus Larkin also announce to the media they had a bad season too? AA could score 48 goals next year and 89 points and you wouldn't be satisfied because he didn't score 50 or 90 points.

AA had 37 games in 15-16. So 27 vs 37? Sounds like you're the one with the problem here. And Larkin at 20 with 1 pro season under his built vs AA at 23 with 3 pro seasons under his built might be a little different. And AA isn't Karlsson. If you think that AA is close to Larkin or Karlsson you need to learn a ton more about hockey.

Second, literally the first link when you google it. To avoid the inane number of adds on this site I had disable utilities that allow me to link things.

This is a non-argument.

Fourth, you can rewatch it all you want. I am not the only one who got this from that interview. And you're using absurd arguments to make your points. Mantha announced it too. AA is egotistical. And water is wet. Its life. People have to get around issues to achieve their potential. If they don't they won't. This is a basic fact of life. The way you are talking I have a belief you might be Redder Wing. Are you?