What would you pay for these UFA defencemen?

[Fogelhund]

Only as strong as your weakest links.

While that is most certainly true... if you get a top pairing, that moves your second pairing, to bottom pairing.

If you go and get an upgrade on your third pairing, and your second pairing is still your second pairing... you are still weaker.

 

[Fogelhund]

Coming off a shoulder injury. Only played 30 games last year. Full UFA. He won't have much leverage. Good age, good on the puck, and seems like someone Dubas would like.

Can probably get him on a lower term deal too.

I'd definitely try and target him.

From an Analytics perspective, he isn't all that good. Shot suppression is decentt. But, Corsi, Coris relative, Fenwick, Fenwick relative, offensively... subpar. Borgman has better stats...

 

[Liminality]

You're being smart, but we don't need depth RHD, we need a top pairing RHD, and none of these guys fit the bill except for maybe Carlson, who will want too much term and money for what he brings.

On the other hand, signing a FA to a contract means we don't need to trade any of our assets besides cap space to get them. To get a top quality RD by trade, it looks like we'd have to give a lot up from our roster.

 

[drewjenks]

Hi all. Just curious about what you guys and gals would be willing to pay for some upcoming UFA defenders. I think most of us are expecting a change on the blueline this offseason. I listed just some of the highlights for right-handed UFA's. But feel free to add other names with your guess, and I know some might be re-signed by their current team. If you don't want a guy just ignore that name, they're not all shiny.

Please list the max cap number (and years if you want) to each guy you would be interested in, assuming we only sign one of them. So giving an offer on 3 players doesn't mean you would try to sign all 3 at the same time for those numbers.

Mike Green
John Carlson
Andrej Sustr
Greg Pateryn
Christian Folin
Kevin Bieksa
Cody Franson

Edit: added players as suggested:
Calvin DeHaan (lefty who can play on the right)

SIGN DE HAAN & TRADE FOR PESCE

Rielly ($5,000,000) - Pesce ($4,025,000)
DeHaan ($4,000,000) - Zaitsev ($4,500,000)
Dermott ($863,000) - Hainsey ($3,000,000)
-------------------------------------
TOTAL COST = $21,338,000
-------------------------------------
Borgman ($925,000) - Holl ($750,000)
Rosen ($925,000) - Ozhiganov ($925,000)
Nielsen ($695,000) - Liljegren ($895,000)
Gordeev ($750,000) - Rasanen ($750,000)
Middleton ($750,000) - Mattinen ($750,000)

OPTIONAL TRADE ASSETS FOR PESCE

- 1st Round Pick (or whatever futures we get for Gardiner)
- 4th Round Pick (STL)
- Connor Carrick
- Josh Leivo
- Jeremy Bracco
- Freddy Gauthier
- Dmitro Timashov
- Adam Brooks
- Trevor Moore
- Calvin Pickard

Some combo of these guys should get the deal done (without losing Nylander):

Example Offer = 1st + 4th + Carrick + Leivo + Bracco + Pickard (if that doesn't work they can add a prospect or replace someone with Brown). Carolina needs young FWD's & a goalie.

 

[diceman934]

We need to keep Gardiner and trade or play Haisney on our 3rd pair with Zeitsev as Haisney was terrible.

Rielly is out best Right D man and can easily play the right side pair him with Gardiner and our top pair is set.

Dermot and a trade for another D man and we are set.

Carrick is as good as gone and could be part of a package to get us a D man along with Brown.

No way am I trading a 1st unless we are getting a legit #1 and Pesce is not the answer.

 

[Battle Lin]

with zaitsev rielly gardiner hainsey dermott most likely 5 of the starting 6, you really wouldn't mind a strong PKer, with size and length, of course they still gotta skate good first and have at least a bit of hockey sense in him, the more the better, and the more it cost

 

[Mugzy97]

On the other hand, signing a FA to a contract means we don't need to trade any of our assets besides cap space to get them. To get a top quality RD by trade, it looks like we'd have to give a lot up from our roster.

I’d rather pay to get the right piece than to have a guy that doesn’t really fit for 7-8 years and lingering around because we didn’t give up assets.

 

[ottomaddox]

Honestly I feel it would put us pretty close. It would balance out our defense and take minutes away from guys who can't handle them as well. Using Doughty as a 1RHD example:

Rielly - Doughty
Dermott - Zaitsev
Hainsey - Holl/Carrick

That's a real solid D and I even removed Gardiner from it. If you keep Gardiner it looks even stronger:
Rielly - Doughty
Gardiner - Hainsey
Dermott - Zaitsev

This coupled with the fact that our team is very young and still developing, you would expect our forwards to at least maintain their level of play (factoring in losing scoring from JVR/Bozak) and I believe we actually are a 1RHD from contending. That's just my opinion.

You can insert Doughty's name in 30 other teams and it would balance out lines/help with contention.

Again Toronto has to come up with something because you'll be waiting forever for a player with as big a name as Doughty.

 

[pucky]

Only as strong as your weakest links.

Leaf fans still want their team to have weak D, apparently, wanting to have pairs like Zaitsev/Hainsey and Gardiner still remaining around. I guess they never learn.

 

[Mugzy97]

You can insert Doughty's name in 30 other teams and it would balance out lines/help with contention.

Again Toronto has to come up with something because you'll be waiting forever for a player with as big a name as Doughty.

Ok well I said any 1RHD would make us a contender, so plug in any other 1RHD's name and it still looks very solid.

 

[Mugzy97]

Example = 1st + 4th + Carrick + Bracco + Pickard (for Pesce)

I wish that would do it

 

[Trapper]

Leaf fans still want their team to have weak D, apparently, wanting to have pairs like Zaitsev/Hainsey and Gardiner still remaining around. I guess they never learn.

People can disagree but I'm sorry you can't keep going with Rielly/Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev. Dermott looks like he'll be a solid NHLer but he's young at the moment and needs time. Even with his natural progression, the above 4 need to change. Unpredictable at the worst times. Individually I know they have traits people like and some of you are attached but it's not good enough as a whole. I wouldn't be paying Gardiner 6 million/year (don't know what he wants just an estimate). That's pretty much 5 of the same 6 we aren't upgrading. So throw in a bottom 6 D and the results are different?

 

[thunder16]

Mike Green - 3 mil
John Carlson - 6.5 mil
Andrej Sustr - no idea who he is
Greg Pateryn - no idea who he is
Christian Folin - no idea who he is
Kevin Bieksa - 1 mil PTO
Cody Franson - He still plays?

One of those Leafs late round picks 5th round in 2008. was traded along with a second round pick and can't remember if their was anything else that the Leafs gave up for Mikhail Grabovski to the Habs. Wouldn't mind him being a depth guy a 6/7 on the Leafs. Better than Polak!

 

[bluumax]

We need to get out of this dream world;

Too many people in this thread talk like anybody over 30 is valueless and useless as anything but a 1x1 3rd pairing guy. Alot of those players will get good deals, because they are good players.

And seriously.... All these suggestions of basically trading our unproven low value prospects for young top line caliber RHDs..... im shocked none of you are GMs yet, truly shocked. You want top pairing talent, get ready to pay top talent back.

The only way we make a trade for a good young/maybe not so young D is by looking at teams with either too little cap space or too little real dollars, too many RFA/UFA signings to fit in with some dead weight salaries.

 

[ottomaddox]

People can disagree but I'm sorry you can't keep going with Rielly/Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev. Dermott looks like he'll be a solid NHLer but he's young at the moment and needs time. Even with his natural progression, the above 4 need to change. Unpredictable at the worst times. Individually I know they have traits people like and some of you are attached but it's not good enough as a whole. I wouldn't be paying Gardiner 6 million/year (don't know what he wants just an estimate). That's pretty much 5 of the same 6 we aren't upgrading. So throw in a bottom 6 D and the results are different?

No the results will be the same. Hainsey and Dermott was not good enough. There has to be more. The Leafs have to be bold.

 

[-DeMo-]

SIGN DE HAAN & TRADE FOR PESCE

Rielly ($5,000,000) - Pesce ($4,025,000)
DeHaan ($4,000,000) - Zaitsev ($4,500,000)
Dermott ($863,000) - Hainsey ($3,000,000)
-------------------------------------
TOTAL COST = $21,338,000
-------------------------------------
Borgman ($925,000) - Holl ($750,000)
Rosen ($925,000) - Ozhiganov ($925,000)
Nielsen ($695,000) - Liljegren ($895,000)
Gordeev ($750,000) - Rasanen ($750,000)
Middleton ($750,000) - Mattinen ($750,000)

OPTIONAL TRADE ASSETS FOR PESCE

- 1st Round Pick (or whatever futures we get for Gardiner)
- 4th Round Pick (STL)
- Connor Carrick
- Josh Leivo
- Jeremy Bracco
- Freddy Gauthier
- Dmitro Timashov
- Adam Brooks
- Trevor Moore
- Calvin Pickard

Some combo of these guys should get the deal done (without losing Nylander):

Example = 1st + 4th + Carrick + Bracco + Pickard (for Pesce)

no combination of those assets would get you Pesce. they need a starting goaltender or high end scoring if there going to move him.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

There isn't much avaialble in free agency this season. Leafs are still in a development year.
Johnson, Kapanen. New full time. Nylander might at centre. Sparks in net.
I would go with Borgman on defence, and Dermot might even be moved the right side.
Reilly, Gardner, Borgman, Zaitsev (need him to be better) Hainsey and Dermot. There's six, maybe Leafs fill in with another but it's not like you can trade your way outta trouble without weakening another position.
Gee, why even think DeHaan coming off another shoulder surgery and he plays LHD.

 

[Battle Lin]

a right side D is just a luxury, we need to get another D that upgrades polak/carrick from last year, left or right

i like our 7D and beyound depth, carrick, borgman, and rosen, should all see time next year with injuries and bad play, like you really cant ask for more in your 8-10 guys, also think liljegren is just one more full season away

 

[AllDay28]

Why dont we let kids who are developing with the Marlies, fill these roles?

 

[Dog]

Yes, lets go crazy instead we have capable players on Marlies to fill voids.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Why dont we let kids who are developing with the Marlies, fill these roles?

They could but then they'll probably take a step-back next year

 

[Battle Lin]

imagine they bring polak back, theres at least a 1 percent chance it happens

 

[AllDay28]

They could but then they'll probably take a step-back next year

true. were playing for AHL titles and not NHL. what was I thinking

 

[Trapper]

true. were playing for AHL titles and not NHL. what was I thinking

I think he was talking about the NHL team. Especially if you're rolling the same D but using a rookie to replace Polak.

 

[Morgs]

Green/Carlson I have varying interest, but thinking either is a top-pairing defenseman is a mistake.

DeHann is my main target for defenseman in FA... if he's willing to take around 4. He's what we're looking for, just has the wrong handedness and I'm not sure he can play RD.

Bieksa and Sustr are not NHL level defenseman, and easily guys we need to stay the f*** away from.

Folin wasn't anything special in a bottom pairing role, so I'd pass.

Pateryn was ok in a 2nd pairing role, might make an above average 3rd pairing D - better than Polak. Would rather play the kids.

Franson is always of interest to me. The guy has always been good at supressing shots/chances, and is able to contribute offensively in a bottom pairing role. Again, I would rather play the kids.