What went wrong with Dion Phaneuf?

[SensFactor]

Looked really good playing defense and scored a goal last nite.
A King for a day and already scoring goals. Dion Phaneuf grabs his first as a member of the @LAKings. #LAKvsPIT

Wait for it.. You will see what many Sens fans, leaf fans and flames fans saw.

 

[Fig]

IMO he was an old style dman who was left behind when the NHL evolved and rules changed which hurt his game. It didn't help he didn't change his game in time to match the new NHL style. I also have a theory that if Sutter continued to be coach rather than GM duties, Phaneuf would have developed differently.

Add in a few injuries I believe to his hip and knees that added, his speed went down further reducing his effectiveness. Finally, I think the captaincy and contract IMO really crushed him and made him over think things.

We still should have gotten more than what Toronto paid, though that would mean our entire team would be completely different due to different GM philosophies since then.

 

[De Montreal]

You should tell him that to his face someday.

He's so stupid that he might actually punch him and prove his point.

 

[Mantis]

His brains

 

[Butch 19]

In the mid to late 00s, Phaneuf was one of the most promising potential stars of the league with his bone-crushing hits and scoring touch for Calgary. 10 years and 3 teams later, he simply hasn't had the kind of career many foresaw. What stood in the way?

Name one player that hasn't slowed down after 10 yrs in the NHL.

 

[MrGold]

I've never seen this before. That's magical lolol

Announcer laughing makes this even better...

 

[TeamRenzo]

Locker room cancer??

I think he is the exact opposite. He may be over paid but he is still a good player.

 

[joe dirte]

IMO he was an old style dman who was left behind when the NHL evolved and rules changed which hurt his game. It didn't help he didn't change his game in time to match the new NHL style. I also have a theory that if Sutter continued to be coach rather than GM duties, Phaneuf would have developed differently.

Add in a few injuries I believe to his hip and knees that added, his speed went down further reducing his effectiveness. Finally, I think the captaincy and contract IMO really crushed him and made him over think things.

We still should have gotten more than what Toronto paid, though that would mean our entire team would be completely different due to different GM philosophies since then.

he was decent his first few years in toronto, but his game declined big. (which yes, had already declined from his years in calgary).

I think your take pretty much is bang on. he's an old style dman who doesn't have the speed to keep up with the game these days, hisbs0ees has further declined from earlier years, and he doesn't have the smarts to compensate for his skills going.

 

[treple13]

I think quite a few people have said the answer already. He was never a Norris-calibre dman. He was a d-man that was good at offense and PP and atrocious defensively. His PP stats get inflated since he insisted on shooting every time the puck came his direction. He never improved since he didn't care to due to his ego. His time with the Flames was completely overrated and many Flames fans (such as myself) wanted to trade him years before they actually did. Phaneuf never cared about winning and playing hard here and that really was exposed come playoff time. Eventually in TO and Ottawa it seems like he did sacrifice some of that offense to play more D, but now he's kinda not great at either thing.

 

[treple13]

Name one player that hasn't slowed down after 10 yrs in the NHL.

Giordano

 

[The List Of Jericho]

In the mid to late 00s, Phaneuf was one of the most promising potential stars of the league with his bone-crushing hits and scoring touch for Calgary. 10 years and 3 teams later, he simply hasn't had the kind of career many foresaw. What stood in the way?

Simple, the league grew into one that was built more on speed than a slow, grinding style. His foot speed thus got exposed....

 

[The List Of Jericho]

He's sorta stupid looking.

I laughed but then remembered he's married to Elisha Cuthbert, kinda kills that buzz.

 

[JackSlater]

 

[FerrisRox]

Dion Phaneuf was always a bit of a mirage. He was a SportsCentre player. It became painfully clear the day he was traded to the Maple Leafs that he had a reputation that was, in no way, based on watching him play. Instead, he had a reputation based on watching SportsCentre.

If you didn't watch Flames games, and instead just saw hilights, you saw a lot of big Dion Phaneuf hits and lots of scoring and the impression was, this guy was a tough bruising defender with top end offensive skill.

The day he was dealt to Toronto, the threads here were filled with tons of Maple Leaf fans that thought they had "stolen" Dion Phaneuf from Calgary and that he was star defensemen.

The reality, of course, was quite different. If you watched Phaneuf, instead of just seeing the hilites, you saw that in order to deliver the big hit that you saw on SportsCentre, Phaneuf was way out of position. You also missed that he went for three other big hits that he missed that led to odd-man rushes. His offensive skills also proved to be a lot more limited than the first appeared. He never thought the game very well and was never a creative player. Outside of the power play, he rarely created offense and was prone to many brain cramps when he did try to move the puck offensively.

It became clear, fairly quickly, that the Emperor Had No Clothes here in Toronto (though he did still have many vocal supporters that continued to claim he was a #1 defensemen right up until his trade when, strangely, he became terrible and overpaid.)

 

[FerrisRox]

According to Rhett Warrener, his former defensive teammate on the Flames, Phaneuf didn't want to hone or improve his defensive game, but was instead more interested in big hits and offense. It could also be true he couldn't improve that side of his game even if he wanted to. He's not the quickest guy around, and perhaps not the brightest either.

I can't share them here, because of the site rules, but there are stories from his time in Calgary that are jaw-dropping. He's just a total dough-head and did some incredibly selfish and stupid things with the Flames.

Ironically, when they the Flames first shopped him around, only two teams were interested, Toronto and Los Angeles, and now he's played for both clubs.

 

[Iapyi]

when Phaneuf was 20 he played like he was 30, by the time he was 3o he played like he was 60.

I always thought he was a decent enough player but he was put in the wrong role in Toronto for whatever reason.

According to Rhett Warrener, his former defensive teammate on the Flames, Phaneuf didn't want to hone or improve his defensive game, but was instead more interested in big hits and offense. It could also be true he couldn't improve that side of his game even if he wanted to. He's not the quickest guy around, and perhaps not the brightest either.

I find this interesting because we always see the posters who defend the one dimensional offensive players say that anyone can always improve their defensive game. I knew I was right not to believe them.

 

[LeafFever]

I can't share them here, because of the site rules, but there are stories from his time in Calgary that are jaw-dropping. He's just a total dough-head and did some incredibly selfish and stupid things with the Flames.

Ironically, when they the Flames first shopped him around, only two teams were interested, Toronto and Los Angeles, and now he's played for both clubs.

I don't think this is accurate. there were stories teams had no idea he was available and wish they knew. The Flames did not actively shop him around. The Leafs approached them.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Not sure why Phaneuf's offensive game took a nosedive, but he was never that good defensively. For a rookie and 2nd year player it was good, but it never improved. I think the guy was so over hyped early in his career he did not think he needed to improve, or he just was not able to improve.

 

[Wo Yorfat]

I laughed but then remembered he's married to Elisha Cuthbert, kinda kills that buzz.

Oh for sure. He's a massive life winner, and by most accounts a really good guy. It doesn't mean it's wrong to point out that if he was naked and dirty he could pass for a real life caveman.

 

[Voight]

He played for the team named Toronto Maple Leafs... Same as Kessel

The Same Kessel was top 10 in points 3 times and top 10 in goals twice while a Maple Leaf?

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

Just not a lot of hockey IQ and sadly his skating has deteriorated to abysmal levels. The game is a lot faster and skating oriented and Phaneuf can't really process as quickly, to put it nicely.
However, if you need someone to just sit down in front of a microphone and spout platitudes for 10+ minutes to fill air/columnspace, he's A+ elite. Very, very glad we got rid of him and got softer by getting Gaborik.

 

[Fig]

I don't think this is accurate. there were stories teams had no idea he was available and wish they knew. The Flames did not actively shop him around. The Leafs approached them.

Yep, that's the story I remember too. It was like a mirror opposite when we acquired Hamilton and reports that many GMs didn't know he was available began pouring out of nowhere.

Again, we should have gotten more than what we got from the Leafs if Phaneuf was shopped around more.

when Phaneuf was 20 he played like he was 30, by the time he was 3o he played like he was 60.

I always thought he was a decent enough player but he was put in the wrong role in Toronto for whatever reason.

I find this interesting because we always see the posters who defend the one dimensional offensive players say that anyone can always improve their defensive game. I knew I was right not to believe them.

IIRC, he was sheltered by Hamrlik when he first began playing with us. Regehr also rumored to have offered to mentor Phaneuf in his defensive game, but was brushed off which greatly annoyed Regehr. I think it's interesting to think of a Phaneuf that was mentored by Regehr.

This on top of the fact that I remember remarking that Phaneufs shooting style was like sniping with a shotgun. Phaneuf really could have been a punishing dman in the dzone while sniping goals from a distance if he wasn't so full of himself in the beginning. I'm thinking like a 90% of a Shea Weber type if he had worked on his game earlier. That's still a pretty damn good player.

I will sorta disagree about your comment about the defensive game. Though not amazing, Phaneuf IMO did work on it in Toronto. However, he was surrounded by a cast that often meant he was exposed more often than not. Add in the captaincy and I really don't think he had the best chance to focus on his defensive responsibilities while making sure his point production (which he was known for at the time) didn't evaporate.

I don't think his IQ was completely low, but by the time he humbled up, he really couldn't spend the time to really focus on fixing his game. He was older, the captain of the Leafs/huge pressure to maintain his offensive point production, no mentor to help him with his game and injuries had really affected his game.

Keep in mind. Phaneuf was ranked 3rd in Calder votes in 2005 behind Ovechkin and Crosby. Again, IMO he could have been a Weber styled player. Instead he played a style for too long that affected him long term injuries wise and then ended up in a situation where he could no longer be sheltered nor mentored in fixing his game. As such IMO, he stalled. I actually think he could have been worth that 7x7 if he was trained by Regehr.

 

[Albatros]

Dion Phaneuf was always a bit of a mirage. He was a SportsCentre player. It became painfully clear the day he was traded to the Maple Leafs that he had a reputation that was, in no way, based on watching him play. Instead, he had a reputation based on watching SportsCentre.

If you didn't watch Flames games, and instead just saw hilights, you saw a lot of big Dion Phaneuf hits and lots of scoring and the impression was, this guy was a tough bruising defender with top end offensive skill.

The day he was dealt to Toronto, the threads here were filled with tons of Maple Leaf fans that thought they had "stolen" Dion Phaneuf from Calgary and that he was star defensemen.

The reality, of course, was quite different. If you watched Phaneuf, instead of just seeing the hilites, you saw that in order to deliver the big hit that you saw on SportsCentre, Phaneuf was way out of position. You also missed that he went for three other big hits that he missed that led to odd-man rushes. His offensive skills also proved to be a lot more limited than the first appeared. He never thought the game very well and was never a creative player. Outside of the power play, he rarely created offense and was prone to many brain cramps when he did try to move the puck offensively.

It became clear, fairly quickly, that the Emperor Had No Clothes here in Toronto (though he did still have many vocal supporters that continued to claim he was a #1 defensemen right up until his trade when, strangely, he became terrible and overpaid.)

Phaneuf in Calgary:

2005/06 82 20+29=49 (Norris 8th, Calder 3rd)
2006/07 79 17+33=50 (Norris 6th)
2007/08 82 17+43=60 (Norris 2nd, Hart 12th)
2008/09 80 12+20=32 (Norris 12th)
2009/10 55 10+12=22 (Norris 16th)

I would say he was not only a #1 defenseman, but one of the better #1 defensemen in the league. That he peaked early and didn't reach the same level of performance in Toronto is another story.

 

[Iapyi]

Yep, that's the story I remember too. It was like a mirror opposite when we acquired Hamilton and reports that many GMs didn't know he was available began pouring out of nowhere.

Again, we should have gotten more than what we got from the Leafs if Phaneuf was shopped around more.



IIRC, he was sheltered by Hamrlik when he first began playing with us. Regehr also rumored to have offered to mentor Phaneuf in his defensive game, but was brushed off which greatly annoyed Regehr. I think it's interesting to think of a Phaneuf that was mentored by Regehr.

This on top of the fact that I remember remarking that Phaneufs shooting style was like sniping with a shotgun. Phaneuf really could have been a punishing dman in the dzone while sniping goals from a distance if he wasn't so full of himself in the beginning. I'm thinking like a 90% of a Shea Weber type if he had worked on his game earlier. That's still a pretty damn good player.

I will sorta disagree about your comment about the defensive game. Though not amazing, Phaneuf IMO did work on it in Toronto. However, he was surrounded by a cast that often meant he was exposed more often than not. Add in the captaincy and I really don't think he had the best chance to focus on his defensive responsibilities while making sure his point production (which he was known for at the time) didn't evaporate.

I don't think his IQ was completely low, but by the time he humbled up, he really couldn't spend the time to really focus on fixing his game. He was older, the captain of the Leafs/huge pressure to maintain his offensive point production, no mentor to help him with his game and injuries had really affected his game.

Keep in mind. Phaneuf was ranked 3rd in Calder votes in 2005 behind Ovechkin and Crosby. Again, IMO he could have been a Weber styled player. Instead he played a style for too long that affected him long term injuries wise and then ended up in a situation where he could no longer be sheltered nor mentored in fixing his game. As such IMO, he stalled. I actually think he could have been worth that 7x7 if he was trained by Regehr.

It's all cool but to keep on the same page I never commented on his defensive game. In Toronto he was put in the role of a #1 dman and he isn't/wasn't one.

 

[1specter]

Dion had hip issues which seriously hindered his mobility. He also routinely played through injuries which broke down his body even more. He was a very good D up until 2013 and then the decline really started.