Speculation: What top 4D could Anders Lee return?

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seabass45

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Jan 12, 2007
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TJ Brodie.
Guy just needs a different coach. has Top 2 potential, has term and a manageable cap hit ($4.65m).
Funny you mention that! We also need a different coach. But he's the type I'd be looking for. Brodin is another one.
 
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ThatGuy22

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Oct 11, 2011
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The Scandella /Pominville trade for Ennis/Foligno had little to do with player value, and everything to do with cap. Ignoring that fact is misinformed on your part, or willful ignorance.

You are also underestimating the value of a top 4 D(as I'm sure you know, D age better than wingers, all things being equal) in his prime. I don't know why....it must be crystal clear to NYI fans what the lack of defense will do to a team's ability to compete, no matter how much they can score.

I don't think that Gardiner is a good match for your team because he is all about scoring(52 points as a dman), which you have plenty of. Ignoring the points he has put up, however, while touting Lee's ability to score(62 points as a winger) as an example of his value as a hockey player seems pretty hypocritical.

It was also the Wild's misfortune of absolutely needing to trade Scandella's salary in the only time in the past decade the D trade market was over-saturated because Vegas was trying to trade 5 of them.
 

AvatarAang

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Jan 21, 2018
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assuming Lee put sup 30+ next season what's the general consensus on his new contract? I['m guessing Bailey's is the starting point?
 

saintunspecified

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The downside to Lee isn't projecting his shooting percentage, which doesn't even factor in his ability to cause goals he doesn't touch. He assisted (in the non-technical sense) on many goals this year by blocking the goalie's view. His shooting ability in-close is sublime. There's no luck involved. Having the strength and hands to hit the top of the net in close is a sure-fire way to score. It's just incredibly rare for a player to have those abilities.

Still, Lee's downside is his defensive play. He is not quick enough to help down low defensively, and come back high for break-outs. And even when he sticks up high, he tends to get beaten by pinching defenders. It just takes him a long time to get going, and he doesn't have the defensive hockey sense to make up for his poor acceleration. IMO if Lee was better at getting NYI out of the zone, that line would've scored even more goals, and let up far fewer. As it was, only Josh Bailey was proficient starting breakouts from the wing.

He is better off as a sheltered ES player who is featured on the PP. That's what hurts his value IMO. Otoh, he's a great guy and totally committed. He'll keep himself in peak physical condition, and should have a long career.
 

boredmale

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TJ Brodie.
Guy just needs a different coach. has Top 2 potential, has term and a manageable cap hit ($4.65m).

I won't lie, I don't watch the Flames enough to know how ood or bad a player is playing. In the case of Brody I remember him doing great a few years ago but not sure if his play has regressed or not. All that being said when a player constantly gets mentioned on here in trade proposals that generally is not a great sign. lol
 

CREW99AW

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Mar 12, 2002
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assuming Lee put sup 30+ next season what's the general consensus on his new contract? I['m guessing Bailey's is the starting point?

I tbought Bailey could have gotten $6m on July 1st, that the $5m he signed for was a team friendly deal.

If Anders is not moved, I would like to see him sign for $5m- $6m per. I would consider it another very reasonable deal.
 

Jester9881

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May 16, 2006
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Did you miss two years ago when Lee shot 8.2% over a full season and he put up 15 goals on 180+ shots in the middle of his prime?

Yup, totally ridiculous to think he might come back to earth a bit in the future. :eyeroll:

You mean his sophomore season? Yeah, those slumps never happen.... they don't even have a common name for it.....

He scored 25 goals as a rookie @ 12.7%
Slumped his sophomore year
Then 37 goals at 17.8%
and 40 goals at 19.2%

This is no fluke, but you know.... "Islanders lulz"
 

Jester9881

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As for trading Anders, the Islanders can't afford to lose him right now. At least not until they have a replacement in line to take his spot (hopefully Bellows).
 

rent free

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Apr 6, 2015
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You'd have to think of a team that has a surplus of top 4 Dmen. That really limits the field. I would say that Lee is worth a guy like Scandella, but no way that Buff can afford to lose him.

I think a Lee Gardiner swap is fairly even, but don't think that trade makes sense for either team. Don't NYI need a sound defensive guy, and don't the TML's need all the Dmen they can get? Why not just keep JVR instead of trading for Lee?
I think the idea is to replace jvr for 1 yr as get something back for jake instead of letting him go to free agency. We don't want to re sign James because he will want a lot of money and that money should be allocated towards bigger needs.
 

boredmale

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As for trading Anders, the Islanders can't afford to lose him right now. At least not until they have a replacement in line to take his spot (hopefully Bellows).

Not saying he would be easy to replace BUT if we did we still would have

Beauvillier
Ladd
Nelson(who I believe should be a LW)

Bailey(who plays RW but can play both sides)

Bellows
Dal Colle

The option of signing JVR, Nash or Kane

As LW options.

Personally i feel LW is the least valuable position in hockey mainly because Defense and Centers are key positions and their much more good left wingers then Right Wingers which makes RW a tougher position to fill the void
 
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EastonBlues22

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Nov 25, 2003
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We're simply not ever allowed to actually have good players.

Barzal scoring 85 points in his rookie season? LOL you delusional Islander fans he'll be bad soon just you wait. (Emoticon)

Bailey scoring 71 points in a breakout season? LOL you delusional Islander fans he'll be bad soon just you wait. (Emoticon)

Lee scores 40 goals joining Ovechkin, McDavid, Laine, Malkin in the 40+ club? LOL you delusional Islander fans he'll be bad soon just you wait. (Emoticon)

I don't know why HFboards is always so insistent on telling us none of our players are ever really good, just temporarily good.
I've never commented on Barzal or Bailey, as far as I know, so there's not much point in treating me like I'm part of some sort of hive mind. Heck, Barzal is one of my favorite players to watch.

Any time someone does something incredible or unusual, there's going to be a group of people who think it's unlikely to be repeated (for whatever varying reasons). That doesn't make them all wrong. On the contrary, things are incredible/unusual because they are rare and hard to do, so chances are there's some valid points embedded in those doubts.

I've laid out a cogent argument as to why I think expectations for Lee's future offensive production are best tempered with caution...a rather in-depth one that attempted to provide some historical context, I might add. I didn't do it because I'm a "hater." I just think it was worth discussing because he's something of an interesting outlier. If you think Lee is ultimately going to continue to put up goals like some of those other guys you've mentioned, then feel free to make your case as to why.

Deflecting doesn't really add anything to the conversation about Lee. It just tries to make the conversation about something else entirely.
 
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EastonBlues22

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You mean his sophomore season? Yeah, those slumps never happen.... they don't even have a common name for it.....

He scored 25 goals as a rookie @ 12.7%
Slumped his sophomore year
Then 37 goals at 17.8%
and 40 goals at 19.2%

This is no fluke, but you know.... "Islanders lulz"
A "sophomore slump" at age 25 is a bit different than one at age 22, and I'm not sure why you think the 12.7% the year before that is adding to your point instead of mine, unless you didn't comprehend the point I was making.

Considering you're equating my post to "Islanders lulz," I think that's a pretty safe bet.

If you think Lee will sustain something in the neighborhood of 18.5% moving forward, then good on you. History pretty strongly suggests that he won't, for a number of reasons. If he doesn't, he's unlikely to compensate for the drop through sheer shot volume (like many other prolific scorers), and he's not likely to be picking up the offensive slack with his play-making. I think we can both acknowledge that those things just are not strengths of his game, and that it would be unusual for them to suddenly become so at this stage in his career.

The focus of my post wasn't even about the Islanders, unless you think they'll re-sign Lee. The greater point was that I think Lee's next contract could be extremely treacherous for an unwary suitor. As I said before, maybe he bucks history. There's always a chance. I just hope my team isn't a team that thinks that will be the case.
 
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CodeE

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Dec 20, 2007
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A "sophomore slump" at age 25 is a bit different than one at age 22, and I'm not sure why you think the 12.7% the year before that is adding to your point instead of mine, unless you didn't comprehend the point I was making.

Considering you're equating my post to "Islanders lulz," I think that's a pretty safe bet.

If you think Lee will sustain something in the neighborhood of 18.5% moving forward, then good on you. History pretty strongly suggests that he won't, for a number of reasons. If he doesn't, he's unlikely to compensate for the drop through sheer shot volume (like many other prolific scorers), and he's not likely to be picking up the offensive slack with his play-making. I think we can both acknowledge that those things just are not strengths of his game, and that it would be unusual for them to suddenly become so at this stage in his career.

The focus of my post wasn't even about the Islanders, unless you think they'll re-sign Lee. The greater point was that I think Lee's next contract could be extremely treacherous for an unwary suitor. As I said before, maybe he bucks history. There's always a chance. I just hope my team isn't a team that thinks that will be the case.

There's no "history" that strongly suggests Lee will regress, just vague references to other players and crystal ball predictions. Ignoring Lee's net-strong, "offensive rebound" type of goal playstyle that's radically different from the way a player like Ovechkin or Boeser scores most of their goals. When you're scoring goals in front of the net, your percentage will be high: lots of tap-ins and deflections which inflate your shooting percentage. I've never actually cared that much about Lee's shooting percentage, but I do know with his style of game and a talented center, he can easily pot 30-40 as long as he's healthy. But you're comparing his shooting percentage to Stamkos, missing the mark in the difference in playing styles.

All season long fans have been discrediting any and all Islanders players who do anything remotely impressive. Every Barzal thread is filled with the same vague references to other players and crystal ball predictions that all follow the same "LOL you delusional Islander fans he'll be bad soon just you wait" pattern. We had an atrocious season. Yet the few bright spots we can't be happy about either - as fans insist on "correcting" us that Barzal is a 70-point player at best. We've heard "unsustainable" oh so many times, that we're naive stupid homers for thinking Barzal could hit 50 points. We're sick of hearing "unsustainable", and we're not going into Colton Parayko threads to say he's comparable to Luke Schenn or whatever.

So yes, you want to discredit Islander players and say they'll regress in the future because you say so? I'm gonna equate your post to "Islanders lulz".
 

Jester9881

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A "sophomore slump" at age 25 is a bit different than one at age 22, and I'm not sure why you think the 12.7% the year before that is adding to your point instead of mine, unless you didn't comprehend the point I was making.

Considering you're equating my post to "Islanders lulz," I think that's a pretty safe bet.

If you think Lee will sustain something in the neighborhood of 18.5% moving forward, then good on you. History pretty strongly suggests that he won't, for a number of reasons. If he doesn't, he's unlikely to compensate for the drop through sheer shot volume (like many other prolific scorers), and he's not likely to be picking up the offensive slack with his play-making. I think we can both acknowledge that those things just are not strengths of his game, and that it would be unusual for them to suddenly become so at this stage in his career.

The focus of my post wasn't even about the Islanders, unless you think they'll re-sign Lee. The greater point was that I think Lee's next contract could be extremely treacherous for an unwary suitor. As I said before, maybe he bucks history. There's always a chance. I just hope my team isn't a team that thinks that will be the case.

Anders Lee was drafted late because he was deciding between hockey and football, then after committing to hockey he played 3 full years of college and one in the AHL. Regardless of what his age was at the time, it was still his sophomore season... he still had to acclimate to the league, and that 12% was recorded as a rookie. His sh% is unusually high because of the style he plays. Almost all of his goals are tip ins, deflections or rebounds from right on top of the goalie.
 

Newsworthy

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I think the idea is to replace jvr for 1 yr as get something back for jake instead of letting him go to free agency. We don't want to re sign James because he will want a lot of money and that money should be allocated towards bigger needs.
You don't want JVR because of money but are willing to trade for Lee who will also command alot?
What gives?
 

rent free

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Apr 6, 2015
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You don't want JVR because of money but are willing to trade for Lee who will also command alot?
What gives?
the intention of trading for lee is to replace jvr for a year and trade gardiner instead of losing him for nothing. killing two stones with one bird. f*** its the other way around. anyways, we aren't gonna re-sign lee after next season
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Brodie's 2 down seasons would have me very leery.

Who do *YOU* think Lee could land? You asked the question in the OP, Crew, but every single legitimate top four option that's been suggested has been shot down without hesitation. :laugh:

You're not getting a Doughty, Hedman, Karlsson, Subban, Josi, etc. for Lee. So if you believe anything below that level of defenseman isn't worth Lee, then you're probably not going to be trading Lee for a defenseman.
 
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Magic Man

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the intention of trading for lee is to replace jvr for a year and trade gardiner instead of losing him for nothing. killing two stones with one bird. **** its the other way around. anyways, we aren't gonna re-sign lee after next season
So, you use Gardiner to replace JVR with Lee and then you replace Gardiner with what?
 

Rangediddy

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I won't lie, I don't watch the Flames enough to know how ood or bad a player is playing. In the case of Brody I remember him doing great a few years ago but not sure if his play has regressed or not. All that being said when a player constantly gets mentioned on here in trade proposals that generally is not a great sign. lol
He gets mentioned for trades because the flames need to deal D men (position of strength) for skilled forwards (position of weakness). Giordano won't have much trade value because he's older and Hamilton is close to untouchable from a trade perspective for us. That leaves Brodie as our most tradeable player.

He has had 2 down years mostly because Gulutzen's system doesn't allow him to spread his wings like Hartley's did. In a different system, he would be a great, young addition.
 
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