Player Discussion What to do with Maroon?

[CycloneSweep]

I think those are more plausible amounts than the ceiling of 3M that a lot of people are stating. Especially if its say 2-3yr term. I'd offer 2yrs at 3.8 or 3 yrs at 3.5 and see if that gets it done. We don't want more than 2-3 yrs. That's the Maroon window that is serviceable and that could be of most benefit.

The issue with Maroon is if you look at his history, he is a 3rd liner unless playing with McDavid. So you want to pay him a decent amount of not a bit lower because if you need to move him at some point, you want to be able to. The closer to 4 he gets the much harder it would be to move him because he won't be close to as effective almost anywhere else

 

[oXo Cube]

The issue with Maroon is if you look at his history, he is a 3rd liner unless playing with McDavid. So you want to pay him a decent amount of not a bit lower because if you need to move him at some point, you want to be able to. The closer to 4 he gets the much harder it would be to move him because he won't be close to as effective almost anywhere else

The trick with players like this is less about the AAV and more about keeping the term short.

Nobody would be complaining about the Russell contract if it was 2 years long instead of 4.

But I'm expecting him to sign for something like 6 years 18M and Chia will do a presser bragging about how he managed to keep the AAV at a team friendly number.

Then in 2020 we will buy him out.

 

[Canovin]

Might as well go after Kovy if Maroon is asking for 4M. I doubt Kovy would cost much more than 5M

 

[Drivesaitl]

The issue with Maroon is if you look at his history, he is a 3rd liner unless playing with McDavid. So you want to pay him a decent amount of not a bit lower because if you need to move him at some point, you want to be able to. The closer to 4 he gets the much harder it would be to move him because he won't be close to as effective almost anywhere else

But again you don't look back at history as much as what a player is delivering at present or potentially going forward. The Oilers don't have a better fit winger for McD than Maroon. Lets be clear as well that Maroon serves a dual purpose shotgun effect riding with McD. Somebody that will pummel anybody that gets in the kids grill.

This is almost a perfect fit for a young McD. Somebody with some finish around the net and that can punch cows and is willing to do all the battle and board work.

People may think Maroon is relatively untalented, and that's fine, but you won't find a better match of what McD needs, overall, than what we already got in Maroon. He's been the perfect fit with intangibles, for McD. Not the most recent, but many of McD's best games in his career have been with Maroon running shotgun.

This is why team vision, planning, goals, and an understanding of what you have and where you are going is important. When things fit, and they do with maroon and McD, than why not keep riding that for a couple of years.

Hey maybe when McD is 23 we get a real gun slinger for McD that scores more goals and that isn't a physical player. But the young version of McD can benefit more from the hired gun help. hope this is clear

 

[oXo Cube]

Playing with McDavid actually isn't easy and I think this board has yet to realize that.

We're 3 seasons in and we've found 2 players who are actually good at it.

That's a problem because one of them is Leon Draisaitl.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Whats the probability of finding a winger that clicks with McD, that is our best winger at reasonable cost, that brings intangibles, solid board play, all of that, and that doesn't get scored against a lot and is hard to play against?

The reality is anybody we bring in that is close to or better than Maroon would cost more than Maroon. During the full length of Maroons term here he has been our best winger. The whole time. So that arguably he's been serving up much higher value than we've been paying him. He's been the best contractual value on this club and not even close. (not counting ELC's obviously)

Now I realize that in pro sports its not what have you done for me, its what you will do for me, I get that, just the same I can't help but think it sends the wrong message when one of the consistently hardest working players, with one of the most honest efforts on the team, and a guy that is resolutely positive and buoyant on the bench and the ice, practically the team mascot, its sad to everybody if that player is just dealt for nothing. What message does that send about a guy that came here and gave his everything? Maroon has done so much more here than any other skater Chia has recruited. The best Chia recruits have been Talbot and Maroon. Both were relative gifts. These were the good finds.

I ageee with almost everything in the post here.

Most people thinks you can just slap anyone on the first line and it’ll work with mcdavid, which just isn’t true.

And what we do know is that maroon works with mcdavid, I’d hes willing to take a reasonable deal, I would love to have him back as an oiler

3x3.25

 

[Draiskull]

People may think Maroon is relatively untalented, and that's fine, but you won't find a better match of what McD needs, overall, than what we already got in Maroon. He's been the perfect fit with intangibles, for McD. Not the most recent, but many of McD's best games in his career have been with Maroon running shotgun.

This is why team vision, planning, goals, and an understanding of what you have and where you are going is important. When things fit, and they do with maroon and McD, than why not keep riding that for a couple of years.

Hey maybe when McD is 23 we get a real gun slinger for McD that scores more goals and that isn't a physical player. But the young version of McD can benefit more from the hired gun help. hope this is clear

If we dont we arent going anywhere.
Maroon has been better than others but is very far from a perfect fit for McDavid.
If things fit so good then fringe guys like Caggiula and Camallari would not be playing with McDavid.
Hopefully Chia has a better plan than inking Maroon in our top 6. Bring him back as a bottom 6 winger to fight with Lucic and Khaira for a position but he is not the answer for our top 6.

 

[Draiskull]

I ageee with almost everything in the post here.

Most people thinks you can just slap anyone on the first line and it’ll work with mcdavid, which just isn’t true.

And what we do know is that maroon works with mcdavid, I’d hes willing to take a reasonable deal, I would love to have him back as an oiler

3x3.25

we simply cant go Maroon,Lucic as our top 6 LWers. We have to try speed+skill there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If we dont we arent going anywhere.
Maroon has been better than others but is very far from a perfect fit for McDavid.
If things fit so good then fringe guys like Caggiula and Camallari would not be playing with McDavid.
Hopefully Chia has a better plan than inking Maroon in our top 6. Bring him back as a bottom 6 winger to fight with Lucic and Khaira for a position but he is not the answer for our top 6.

In a short future two year window Maroon is the best option we got. What people have to key on is we need somebody that can cook up goals now with McD, not as in later, with prospects or waiting for some of our current crop to develop. McD benefits from help now, and Maroon provides that now. He's got the ready NHL game and why he's been a crucial value.

Again anybody better than Maroon is going to cost more, and is not going to be the type player that rides side saddle and punches cows. A tough winger with hands that is still at his physical best is a valuable NHL commodity imho. Maroon trains well, really looks after himself which has allowed his late blooming game to blossom into something good. Its one of those good times when a club is the beneficiary of a player that got better. How often does that even occur here?

 

[Draiskull]

In a short future two year window Maroon is the best option we got. What people have to key on is we need somebody that can cook up goals now with McD, not as in later, with prospects or waiting for some of our current crop to develop. McD benefits from help now, and Maroon provides that now. He's got the ready NHL game and why he's been a crucial value.

Again anybody better than Maroon is going to cost more, and is not going to be the type player that rides side saddle and punches cows. A tough winger with hands that is still at his physical best is a valuable NHL commodity imho. Maroon trains well, really looks after himself which has allowed his late blooming game to blossom into something good. Its one of those good times when a club is the beneficiary of a player that got better. How often does that even occur here?

Maroon can be a 4th liner as early as the end of this season. He has clicked better than Lucic ( slow as heck and cant handle the puck) and Camallari (one foot in the grave). This does not mean that we should be throwing big money at him just because he whiffs on 50% of McDavid passes instead of 60%.
Bottom line, we need to give McDavid a chance with a legit scoring winger. If I am McDavid, I would regret signing the extension with Oilers after seeing 10M tied up in Lucic\Maroon as his 2 most likely LWers his prime years.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Maroon can be a 4th liner as early as the end of this season. He has clicked better than Lucic ( slow as heck and cant handle the puck) and Camallari (one foot in the grave). This does not mean that we should be throwing big money at him just because he whiffs on 50% of McDavid passes instead of 60%.
Bottom line, we need to give McDavid a chance with a legit scoring winger. If I am McDavid, I would regret signing the extension with Oilers after seeing 10M tied up in Lucic\Maroon as his 2 most likely LWers his prime years.

McD prime is around 24 like it is with a lot of players. He's not close to that age now. Nothing wrong with a two year Maroon deal and even if its just playing with McD next year and they find somebody else the year after.

My biggest worry, with this org, and Chia is that we deal Maroon for a nothing pick and don't adequately replace him and so that McD has worse to work with next season. Nor do I think such concern is unreasonable with what we have witnessed here. If you doubt this note the list of Wingers Chia has brought in here.

Look, almost any GM could have went out and got Lucic at 6M longterm. They were wetting themselves on that retirement deal. A future buyout the moment it happened. Maroon is the only good vet winger Contract or addition Chia has signed and recruited. The only one.

 

[TheNumber4]

Maroon was waiver wire fodder before the Oilers were gifted him by his former team. He's a bottom 6 guy when he isn't on McDavids wing. If Chia can't use those facts to negotiate a contract extension at 3M or less, he truly is a bad negotiator and the wrong guy to right this ship.

Furthermore, We're supposed to be using McDavids generational talent to pump up lesser players and add value to our team. Think of how Crosby makes all the wingers around him better like Rust and Sheary. It makes no sense to pump their value then PAY them out because McDavid has so much talent. We've already slightly overpaid Draisaitl and that pisses me off.

 

[Fourier]

The trick with players like this is less about the AAV and more about keeping the term short.

Nobody would be complaining about the Russell contract if it was 2 years long instead of 4.

But I'm expecting him to sign for something like 6 years 18M and Chia will do a presser bragging about how he managed to keep the AAV at a team friendly number.

Then in 2020 we will buy him out.

Most of the time this is correct. But the two years in question are exactly the two years where the Oilers likely have a cap crunch.

If you look at how Russell's deal is structured it was not going to be $4M if it was 2 years. The extra years reduced the AAV. This was either a 2 year $4.75M or three year $4.5M deal with the extra year added on to reduce the cap hit down by at least $5ook. The last year also has a $1M signing bonus making it even cheaper to move him if you want to.

Depending on how the last three years of the contract are structured it could easily be the smart thing to do. The extra 1M you say on the cap over the next two years could be valuable. Plus at 33 he may have trade value if the cost to the team getting him is little but his cap is more.

It is also quite likely that the new CBA contains a compliance buyout clause. This would mean that the only cost to shed a bad deal would be out of the owner's pocket.

 

[LaGu]

If $3M and short term is the ceiling then it's bye bye Maroon. Who cares if he scores most on McDavid's wing, the point is he is scoring on McDavid's wing and, imo, is decent in other places. Either you go with the @Fourier option, which I really like, or we're talking closer to $4M. My ceiling is $4M, over that I wouldn't commit even though I'd hate to lose him.


Who has the "pts with" vs "pts without" for McD and Maroon? I don't know where to find this info anymore.

 

[Jeff Lebowski]

But again you don't look back at history as much as what a player is delivering at present or potentially going forward. The Oilers don't have a better fit winger for McD than Maroon. Lets be clear as well that Maroon serves a dual purpose shotgun effect riding with McD. Somebody that will pummel anybody that gets in the kids grill.

This is almost a perfect fit for a young McD. Somebody with some finish around the net and that can punch cows and is willing to do all the battle and board work.

People may think Maroon is relatively untalented, and that's fine, but you won't find a better match of what McD needs, overall, than what we already got in Maroon. He's been the perfect fit with intangibles, for McD. Not the most recent, but many of McD's best games in his career have been with Maroon running shotgun.

This is why team vision, planning, goals, and an understanding of what you have and where you are going is important. When things fit, and they do with maroon and McD, than why not keep riding that for a couple of years.

Hey maybe when McD is 23 we get a real gun slinger for McD that scores more goals and that isn't a physical player. But the young version of McD can benefit more from the hired gun help. hope this is clear

Agreed! He's also one of the great characters on this team and is entertaining to watch. This is the type of guy that you want on a playoff team. Despite the poor season by this team, that is what we ultimately want. I really hope he can be resigned. The player wants it, the team wants it. They'll make it happen.

 

[MessierII]

If $3M and short term is the ceiling then it's bye bye Maroon. Who cares if he scores most on McDavid's wing, the point is he is scoring on McDavid's wing and, imo, is decent in other places. Either you go with the @Fourier option, which I really like, or we're talking closer to $4M. My ceiling is $4M, over that I wouldn't commit even though I'd hate to lose him.


Who has the "pts with" vs "pts without" for McD and Maroon? I don't know where to find this info anymore.

I can’t find points with and without but I can see on ice goals for against at even strength when they do and don’t play together.

Last year maroon and mcdavid were when together were on for 44 goals for 33 against

Without mcdavid Maroon was on for 19 goals for 16 against

This year they actually haven’t been good together. Together they’ve been on for 21 goals for and 20 against.

Without Mc David maroon has been more successful this year. On for 17 goals for and 11 against.

Both players have way better numbers apart this year.

 

[sundaysleftovers]

Playing with McDavid actually isn't easy and I think this board has yet to realize that.

We're 3 seasons in and we've found 2 players who are actually good at it.

That's a problem because one of them is Leon Draisaitl.

Should trade for Dylan Strome, swap brothers with Arizona

 

[Stoneman89]

If Maroon gets 4 mill, it better not be more than a 3 year term.

 

[Staghorn]

Maroon keeps playing like he did last night and the best the Oilers would get for him will be a 4th... pretty sad effort last night - last thing I want to see is $$$ and term tied up in to a player that only shows up sometimes, and only produces with the best player on earth... Heck if I played on McD's line I'm sure I could stand in front of the net and he could bank 10 goals a year in off me. Big deal he got some goals last year playing in a gravy spot. Effort last night was pathetic.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I can’t find points with and without but I can see on ice goals for against at even strength when they do and don’t play together.

Last year maroon and mcdavid were when together were on for 44 goals for 33 against

Without mcdavid Maroon was on for 19 goals for 16 against

This year they actually haven’t been good together. Together they’ve been on for 21 goals for and 20 against.

Without Mc David maroon has been more successful this year. On for 17 goals for and 11 against.

Both players have way better numbers apart this year.

Interesting. I think that Patty hasn't been mucking it up around the net enough just like the rest of our team. For him to be worth his weight for us IMO we need to sign him to 3rd line $.

 

[Mr Positive]

3.5 x 3
No nmc or ntc

If he wants any more than that, trade him

 

[bobbythebrain]

Playing with McDavid actually isn't easy and I think this board has yet to realize that.

We're 3 seasons in and we've found 2 players who are actually good at it.

That's a problem because one of them is Leon Draisaitl.

Totally agree

 

[Roof Daddy]

The name of the game is speed now, I want nothing to do with Maroon going forward. Would much rather use the funds it would cost to keep Maroon to either pursue Grabner as a UFA or trade for Anathasiou (or both).

I do agree we need team toughness, but Nurse, Looch and Kass are still here.

The game has changed. Don't want to be the guy phoning Blockbuster video on his Blackberry to see if they still have videos on Beta.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Seeing Lucic declining so damn hard before our very eyes, I'd be weary of signing Maroon for more than 2 years.

 

[Fourier]

Eller just got 5 years at $3.5M. Maroon scores more but I think Eller is definitely the more valuable player. He is a very good #3C, especially defensively, And he is having one of his best years offensively