Player Discussion What to do with Maroon?

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

I think he will be moved at the deadline. Just a hunch.

This, he'll earn way more on the open market.

I'd also be very weary of him if we signed an extension. He seems like the kind of player that would play 'comfortable' after a new contract. His whole game is based on having to prove something. I wouldn't want him to be on my team in year one of a multi year contract.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I for one wouldn't blame Pat for wanting more than what we maybe offering. This is the prime of his career and his likely last chance at a big payday. He has a son and a new wife. financial security for them will be huge concerns for him. That said the team has been faltering for much of the season and IMO Nuge and Nurse have proven to be more valuable players to the team going forward.

 

[Fourier]

Who will pay him $4M with term??

He can produce with high end skill which is something he should get credit for. But without the high end skill he is a 15 goal 30 point winger who will be 30 at the beginning of this deal. He doesn't really fit a team like Vegas because of his skating. LA might be able to use him, but they have little extra cap space given Doughty's pending UFA status in 2019-2020 and they also have a lot of guys over 30 in a league that is getting faster and faster.

I think people tend to see St. Louis as an automatic but it would shock me if they gave him anywhere near $4M. I would guess they would have interest at $2M but not much more given their depth on the LHS and their cap space.

I'd like to see him back on a team friendly deal and I still think it could be done with a longer deal.

4 3 3.5 2.5 2.2 2 = $2.8M cap hit.

Make the first 4 years primarily signing bonuses which adds value to the deal particularly since it would be mostly lockout proof. The key would be no NMC or NTC.

For the next three years it is not so easy to see how you get a better replacement for less than $2.8M. If he becomes complacent you can buy him out or trade him with a little retention.

 

[Staghorn]

Trade him now then re-sign him... it’s a possibility if he likes playing in Edmonton and with MacD. Like is noted above, where else is he a better fit??

I just wonder what his value is given the outrageous Nash ask.... hell if that’s what Nash is worth, I’m worth at least a 6th rounder!

 

[LaGu]

I was trying to look for comparables to Maroon but it is a bit tough, at least if you want to argue $3M or less imo, but I could obviously be missing something. I had a look at the caphits of all players ahead of Maroon in goal scoring for last year and so far this year and there are not that many who earn below $4M really (even though there are quite a few on this list). There are always circumstances though and each situation would need to be seen in isolation to get and idea to why they make the money they do.

The only ones that come a bit close in terms of comparables are:

Atkinson: $3.5M, back-loaded. came off consecutive 20+ goal / 40 pts seasons.
Lee: $3.75M, back-loaded, scored 25 G 16 A 41 P the season before signing.

Eaves: had a career year last year with 33 goals and got rewarded a 3 year contract $3.15M / year. He was 33 years old at the time he signed though and came off 1 good year, I would argue Maroon is on his second good year and was also very solid in the short period after the trade in 15/16.

Staal: $3.5M for 3 years, but signed it coming off a 13 goal scored season in 15/16.

Then there are the mercenaries: Grabner, Vanek. I don't really think they are comparable due to the nature of their contracts at this point but of course it could be argued that they could replace someone like Maroon on a yearly basis.

 

[LaGu]

Trade him now then re-sign him... it’s a possibility if he likes playing in Edmonton and with MacD. Like is noted above, where else is he a better fit??

I just wonder what his value is given the outrageous Nash ask.... hell if that’s what Nash is worth, I’m worth at least a 6th rounder!

I have missed this about Nash, what is the ask? (link?)

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Id be worriedd about a decline after contract. One year deals?

 

[fuswald]

This, he'll earn way more on the open market.

I'd also be very weary of him if we signed an extension. He seems like the kind of player that would play 'comfortable' after a new contract. His whole game is based on having to prove something. I wouldn't want him to be on my team in year one of a multi year contract.

He has produced for the whole time he was here. Don't see why you would say this.
I think his effort has been decent and will continue.

Will be a good guy to keep.

 

[Gord]

He has produced for the whole time he was here. Don't see why you would say this.
I think his effort has been decent and will continue.

Will be a good guy to keep.

and I would love to keep Maroon, but I honestly don't think the oilers can afford to pay him more than 3 per year. all the extra half million here and there really add up to screwing any teams cap structure, let alone the oilers where a 3rd of the cap next year will be on 3 players.

 

[Gord]

I have missed this about Nash, what is the ask? (link?)

A first-round pick, a top prospect, and another lesser player or prospect or pick

New York Rangers’ Asking Price For Rick Nash Has Been Set

 

[MessierII]

If you keep Maroon where do you upgrade?

Mcd, Drai, Nuge, Jesse, Strome, Lucic, Caguilla are locks in the top 9 for next year. I think they need to find a player who’s more of a traditional top 6 guy this summer. Maroon had a great run but I take what I can get and move on.

 

[LaGu]

A first-round pick, a top prospect, and another lesser player or prospect or pick

New York Rangers’ Asking Price For Rick Nash Has Been Set

I like Nash the player a lot, but holy crap that would be a steep price to pay. I guess it is posturing, start high and the assumption is that other teams will offer more than they would have without having seen that asking price. It works when cars they say, but there is always the risk that it back fires if you go too far, which NYR might just have

 

[Bryanbryoil]

If you keep Maroon where do you upgrade?

Mcd, Drai, Nuge, Jesse, Strome, Lucic, Caguilla are locks in the top 9 for next year. I think they need to find a player who’s more of a traditional top 6 guy this summer. Maroon had a great run but I take what I can get and move on.

I would not consider Caggiula a top 9 lock. He should have to earn a top 9 spot. We clearly need at least one speedy winger that can wire the puck.

 

[MessierII]

I would not consider Caggiula a top 9 lock. He should have to earn a top 9 spot. We clearly need at least one speedy winger that can wire the puck.

TMac loves the kid. I don’t see him not getting top 9 minutes next year considering how many opportunities he’s had this year.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If you keep Maroon where do you upgrade?

Mcd, Drai, Nuge, Jesse, Strome, Lucic, Caguilla are locks in the top 9 for next year. I think they need to find a player who’s more of a traditional top 6 guy this summer. Maroon had a great run but I take what I can get and move on.

I'd re-sign Maroon and then make him available. Truth is, we will almost certainly have to move a blueliner to get a top 6 forward for next year, and it won't be Nurse, Sekera and Russell have NTC's, Benning and Davidson don't have much trade value, Larsson is our only decent RD - so to me it makes sense that if Sekera won't waive his NTC, Chiarelli could well be looking to move Klefbom. Klefbom and Maroon as a pair could get us back a good forward - say a Mike Hoffman or someone of that caliber, plus probably a decent depth forward (Pageau/Smith/Dzingel) as well. I don't necessarily like the thought of moving Klefbom, but it's quite possible that we go that route to improve our forward core.

Lucic - McDavid - Draisaitl
Hoffman - Nuge - Pulujarvi
Cagguila - Strome - Pageau/Smith/Dzingel
Pakarinen/Benson - Khaira - Kassian

Nurse - Larsson
Sekera - Russell/Benning
Russell/Davidson - Benning/Bear

 

[FlameChampion]

This is a tough one for Chiarelli.

This team seriously needs more NHL wingers instead of fringe players. Maroon is an actual NHL winger.

This team really needs to get more skill/speed on their wings. I think they need at least one speedy winger on each line. Lucic is already locked in. If they sign Maroon, I am not sure they can keep Strome (not saying they should). With Lucic and Maroon, they really just pigeon hole themselves on ways to fix the roster to give themselves more speed and skill. Personally I would take Maroon at 3-4mil over Lucic at 6mil every day of the week. But they are pretty much stuck with Lucic.

I think Maroons production away from McDavid make it a bit scary to negotiate this deal in regards to $ and term.

With McDavid and Draitsaitls contracts, it makes it hard to really overpay Maroon. I dont want RNH to be a cap casualty because we signed Maroon. Granted I dont think its too fair to Maroon to give the Oilers a bargain when none of the other players/management have.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So who do we lowball? Nurse? Trade Nuge for futures? Chia did make this mess to some degree. Connor and Leon had choices to leave more on the table for their teammates. Connor supposedly did, Leon sure as hell didn't. The Lucic deal for all of the griping was a move for the now. Add leadership and accountability as well as lessen the sand kicked in our faces. Same with Sekera. The real puzzling one was the Russell deal IMO. Chia for all of his warts brought Maroon in for a song. When you pay your stars as much as we do the role players salaries suffer. Is it fair? Hardly. But that is the reality of the cap world.



We could acquire a 2nd and flip it for a useful player at the draft as well. Just because we acquire such a pick doesn't guarantee that we walk up to the podium for that pick.



It sucks for Patrick but he's sucking the hind teet here.

That this is left as a hind teet deal, at all, is lack of planning and foresight on the part of Chia, and largely due to his other Winger plans not working out as expected and starting with Lucic. Then paying out part of the Pouliot contract is also factoring into this. as well as Pulju, Khaira, Cagg, Camm, not hitting the ground running. Also Jokinen being a disaster. These and more are all Chia gambits that didn't pay. As far as wingers he's sitting broke at the table with no winning hands. Except Maroon, who he's possibly forced to fold on. Only thing left is to leave Vegas quick as possible at that point..

We have our best winger in Maroon, the winger that plays best with McD, that supports offense well, and that has by far the best winger finish on this club. We have a club with difficulty scoring goals with only one winger on the team that will likely score even as man as 15 goals and we're going to deal our most prolific winger for some nothing pick.

So that like all before him, the players like Perron, that we got for a song, will be discarded for little return as if we never even had him. With some other team benefitting. Now I'm not saying Maroon is Perron, certainly he doesn't possess the similar level of skill, but the thinking that we will be able to replace the player fairly easy and find better or equal player is the same mistake. We never found a winger like Perron again, nobody even close to that good. We were lucky beneficiaries when we got Perron from the Blues. The org threw that gift away, now they're in the process of throwing another gift away.

That is awful asset management.

 

[CycloneSweep]

This is a tough one for Chiarelli.

This team seriously needs more NHL wingers instead of fringe players. Maroon is an actual NHL winger.

This team really needs to get more skill/speed on their wings. I think they need at least one speedy winger on each line. Lucic is already locked in. If they sign Maroon, I am not sure they can keep Strome (not saying they should). With Lucic and Maroon, they really just pigeon hole themselves on ways to fix the roster to give themselves more speed and skill. Personally I would take Maroon at 3-4mil over Lucic at 6mil every day of the week. But they are pretty much stuck with Lucic.

I think Maroons production away from McDavid make it a bit scary to negotiate this deal in regards to $ and term.

With McDavid and Draitsaitls contracts, it makes it hard to really overpay Maroon. I dont want RNH to be a cap casualty because we signed Maroon. Granted I dont think its too fair to Maroon to give the Oilers a bargain when none of the other players/management have.

I think with Maroon he may take a discount because he knows exactly why he is seeing success here and knows that won't happen anywhere else.
I took left wingers last year that scored 40-45 points last year and the average salary works out to 4.2 mill. HOWEVER.
That was pushed high to older players on high contracts that are declining, Sedin and Parise.
Take them out and you get an average 2.45 mill/year.

So I feel like to get a FAIR price for Maroon and not the "Look at your points with McDavid you a star. That 3 mill a year max would be completely fair for Maroon, especially with how his brunt of NHL experience hasn't been great outside of his McDavid time.

We can all argue that Lucic is overpaid too but Lucics contract was in line with what players that have had the constant 50 point output he has had make as a UFA. Is it high? Yes absolutely. Definitely doesn't mean we should use it as a comparable for Maroon.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That this is left as a hind teet deal, at all, is lack of planning and foresight on the part of Chia, and largely due to his other Winger plans not working out as expected and starting with Lucic. Then paying out part of the Pouliot contract is also factoring into this. as well as Pulju, Khaira, Cagg, Camm, not hitting the ground running. Also Jokinen being a disaster. These and more are all Chia gambits that didn't pay. As far as wingers he's sitting broke at the table with no winning hands. Except Maroon, who he's possibly forced to fold on. Only thing left is to leave Vegas quick as possible at that point..

We have our best winger in Maroon, the winger that plays best with McD, that supports offense well, and that has by far the best winger finish on this club. We have a club with difficulty scoring goals with only one winger on the team that will likely score even as man as 15 goals and we're going to deal our most prolific winger for some nothing pick.

So that like all before him, the players like Perron, that we got for a song, will be discarded for little return as if we never even had him. With some other team benefitting. Now I'm not saying Maroon is Perron, certainly he doesn't possess the similar level of skill, but the thinking that we will be able to replace the player fairly easy and find better or equal player is the same mistake. We never found a winger like Perron again, nobody even close to that good. We were lucky beneficiaries when we got Perron from the Blues. The org threw that gift away, now they're in the process of throwing another gift away.

That is awful asset management.

That said you don't overpay Maroon just to keep him.

Moving Maroon is like moving Eberle to me. There is zero problem with moving the player, even if the trade might suck as long as you actually replace the player, hopefully with someone better.

 

[Drivesaitl]

If Klefbom and Sekera return to how they played last year, or even close to it, they're alot more important than Maroon.
And for how good everyone thinks Maroon is, he's still not as good as Lucic.

Its a big if with either and Sekera is no spring chicken either. Sekera very occasionally plays with the talent and verve that we've seen earlier in his career. Even had moments like that against Tampa. But he's very seldom having the confidence to bring that puck carrying and playmaking here. He's really pretty much been a non starter in that regard. Offensively the Sekera meme has been point shots fired right into a defender all game long. Overall he's been a disappointment here. Of note Sekera has one assist here in and is -9 in 16GP. He's been a tirefire that isn't adding anything offensively either as was his upside potential calling card. Reasonable season last year. Nothing from the player this season. I'm not precluding that it could be due to injury, but I've rarely seen the player he was touted to be.

Its best that I don't get into my feelings on Klefbom and its not the subject of the thread.

The difference, in anycase, between Maroon and these players is Maroon has good every year he has played for us.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That said you don't overpay Maroon just to keep him.

Moving Maroon is like moving Eberle to me. There is zero problem with moving the player, even if the trade might suck as long as you actually replace the player, hopefully with someone better.

Whats the probability of finding a winger that clicks with McD, that is our best winger at reasonable cost, that brings intangibles, solid board play, all of that, and that doesn't get scored against a lot and is hard to play against?

The reality is anybody we bring in that is close to or better than Maroon would cost more than Maroon. During the full length of Maroons term here he has been our best winger. The whole time. So that arguably he's been serving up much higher value than we've been paying him. He's been the best contractual value on this club and not even close. (not counting ELC's obviously)

Now I realize that in pro sports its not what have you done for me, its what you will do for me, I get that, just the same I can't help but think it sends the wrong message when one of the consistently hardest working players, with one of the most honest efforts on the team, and a guy that is resolutely positive and buoyant on the bench and the ice, practically the team mascot, its sad to everybody if that player is just dealt for nothing. What message does that send about a guy that came here and gave his everything? Maroon has done so much more here than any other skater Chia has recruited. The best Chia recruits have been Talbot and Maroon. Both were relative gifts. These were the good finds.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think with Maroon he may take a discount because he knows exactly why he is seeing success here and knows that won't happen anywhere else.
I took left wingers last year that scored 40-45 points last year and the average salary works out to 4.2 mill. HOWEVER.
That was pushed high to older players on high contracts that are declining, Sedin and Parise.
Take them out and you get an average 2.45 mill/year.

So I feel like to get a FAIR price for Maroon and not the "Look at your points with McDavid you a star. That 3 mill a year max would be completely fair for Maroon, especially with how his brunt of NHL experience hasn't been great outside of his McDavid time.

We can all argue that Lucic is overpaid too but Lucics contract was in line with what players that have had the constant 50 point output he has had make as a UFA. Is it high? Yes absolutely. Definitely doesn't mean we should use it as a comparable for Maroon.

You should have taken goals as a metric, simple as that. Goals for wingers come at a higher premium than assists. Especially for teams looking for a guy that can finish 20-25 goals in a season.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You should have taken goals as a metric, simple as that. Goals for wingers come at a higher premium than assists. Especially for teams looking for a guy that can finish 20-25 goals in a season.

Okay then you get an average of 3.8 mill. There were 20 left wingers that had 20-27 goals last year.
4 of those players had less points than Maroon. 2 of those played 10+ games less than Maroon.
Also of those 20 left wingers only 2 of those guys played with elite centers. Benn and Sheary.
So 3.8 is the median, Maroon is on the low end for overall points and he puts up those sub 45 points playing with arguably the best player in hockey.
So if we go that way then 3.5-3.8 is the absolute most you should pay for him.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Okay then you get an average of 3.8 mill. There were 20 left wingers that had 20-27 goals last year.
4 of those players had less points than Maroon. 2 of those played 10+ games less than Maroon.
Also of those 20 left wingers only 2 of those guys played with elite centers. Benn and Sheary.
So 3.8 is the median, Maroon is on the low end for overall points and he puts up those sub 45 points playing with arguably the best player in hockey.
So if we go that way then 3.5-3.8 is the absolute most you should pay for him.

I think those are more plausible amounts than the ceiling of 3M that a lot of people are stating. Especially if its say 2-3yr term. I'd offer 2yrs at 3.8 or 3 yrs at 3.5 and see if that gets it done. We don't want more than 2-3 yrs. That's the Maroon window that is serviceable and that could be of most benefit.

btw I don't put a lot of stock in noting players that played less games. Maroon is close to an ironman, a horse, basically unstoppable, a man mountain as they say. its part of the value that he gives you +80 games a season. If other guys play less games its because they get injured or hurt more. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is what a player ACTUALLY contributes, not the scoring pace they project to.

 

[oobga]

Better be a good contract. Our trying to punish him and prove a point that he is just a 30-35 point guy without McDavid time is one of the reasons the season went down the crapper. Especially after the Christmas break when Lucic completely wasted McDavid's efforts those first 2 games not even coming close to converting on 8+ glorious scoring chances. Those losses and complete waste of the momentum the team built up cratered the confidence of the team and it took weeks to recover from while the season become completely lost. All in the name of proving a point that better at least mean a very reasonable Maroon contract if he extends.