What the two sides should offer

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by John Flyers Fan, Feb 3, 2005.

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  1. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    If they're really looking to end this thing and put some pressure on the other side


    Owners

    Entry Level - 3 year deals, $1 million max, Bonus can't be more than 100% of the contract.

    Arbitration - abolished

    Free Agency - 5 years or age 25, which ever comes first

    Qualifying offers (rarely used) - 100%

    Salary Cap - (60%) floor $37 million ceiling $47 million .. adjusts accoring to league revenues, but the ceiling will NEVER dip below $45 million


    Players

    Entry Level - 4 year deals, $850K max, Bonus can't be more than 50% of the deal, unless finalist for a major award (Norris, Vezina, Art Ross, Rocket Richard, Hart or Conn Smythe)

    Arbitration - 2-way arbitration. Players and teams can ask for arbitration an unlimited amount.

    Qualifying offers - 85%

    Free Agency - Keep at 31

    Luxury Tax -

    $38 million - $0.25
    $42 million - $0.50
    $47 million - $0.75
    $52 million - $1.25
    $57 million - $1.75
    $62 million - $2.00

    The ranges would adjust each year with 60% of revenues = $0.50 threshold.

    EDIT: Forgot to include the rollback of 24%

    ==============================================

    If either side put forth one of those proposals, it would put incredible pressure on the other side to work with that and hammer out a deal.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2005
  2. likea

    likea Registered User

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    60% is way to much

    even the players have only asked for 57 in their dec. proposal

    and that luxery tax is worthless
     
  3. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    The NFL, which the NHL and its BoG seem to love so much get the following percentages:

    1998-2001 - 63%
    2002 - 64%
    2003 - 64.25%
    2004 - 64.75%
    2005 - 65.5%
    2006 - 64.5%

    EDIT - The floor in the NFL is 56%
     
  4. West

    West Registered User

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    That' a great CBA for turning the NHL into a 12 team league. Which after thinking about it for a second I have no problem with.
     
  5. ryz

    ryz Registered User

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    That luxury tax is, how did the NHLPA put it........... "not meaningful enough".

    Anything less than dollar-for-dollar over 42-45 million just won't fly.

    Other than that it's not a bad bunch of ideas.
     
  6. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    If the owners included significant revenue sharing in the proposal above, no team would have trouble meeting the floor of $37 million.
     
  7. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I didn't say that either proposal was one the other side would immeditely sign .... but IMO they would be enough to put some serious pressure on the other side, and I think you'd see a deal fairly quickly but on that basis.
     
  8. likea

    likea Registered User

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    the NFL doesn't have the same expenses as the NHL
    the NFL has alot more money pouring in from their TV deal
    the NFL's cap is based on the 90% TV deal

    ok, lets break it down some for ya and I'll show you why the NHL cannot do the NFL's numbers

    lets just look at away games

    42 for the NHL
    8 for the NFL

    thats huge

    now think of travel, hotels, meal money...ect...ect..

    ok, take home games and upkeep of the stadium

    42 for the NHL
    8 for the NHL

    think workers, upkeep, ice is alot more expensive to maintain than a field, airconditioning...ect...ect...

    the NHL owners spend way more on expenses that NFL owners
     
  9. likea

    likea Registered User

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    why should the NHLPA tell the owners what to do with their own money

    it baffles me
     
  10. likea

    likea Registered User

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    John, u can just tell your pro player by your proposals is all

    60% is a huge win for the NHLPA...they would take it in a heartbeat

    that luxery tax is terrible and would never be taken
     
  11. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    At 60% the NHL owners would still make a profit. Now they might not make the insane profits that NFL owners make, but I'm not trying to design a system where they make money hand over fist. A profit ?? Yes. A liscence to print money ?? No.


    Even using the NHL's Leavitt report figures, which IMO are biased towards the owners they would have made a profit in 2002-03 if instead of 75% it was 60%.
     
  12. Beatnik

    Beatnik Registered User

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    The NFL % cap include the TV revenus. Also the NFL team are often alone in their stadium while NHL arena often have NBA and many shows.

    The final deal cap should be at the same level than the NFL's one IMO, since the owners/Bettman have a huge responsibility for the decline of hockey. If they act well in the next years the values of the teams should explose. That's a kind of profit too.

    Also if there is a cap the owner must really open their books something they have always refused. Even if they agree on the % it will be very difficult to agree on the ways to evaluate the revenues.
     
  13. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    I could careless whether NHL teams share revenues, but if there is going to be a ceiling than there has to be a floor. If teams can't afford to reach the floor, we have revenue sharing to help them out ... hence the "partnership" Bettman once to create.
     
  14. Iceman23

    Iceman23 Registered User

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    Very interesting proposals John Flyers Fan. I would love to see the players proposal you suggested get put out there. I don't think the players would take a salary cap. But they might take a harsh luxury tax that would act as a sever deterrent to go over the agreed number. Hopefully we hear some good news.
     
  15. likea

    likea Registered User

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    show me how much they would have made in the Levitts report if using 60%

    and if that is true why did the NHLPA propose a systme giving only 57% of the revenues to the players along with the 24% roll back????

    doesn't make much sense to me
     
  16. likea

    likea Registered User

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    umm, ok, not sure the point your trying to make but the NHL still has alot more expenses than the NFL...which is why the % of revenues is different
     
  17. likea

    likea Registered User

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    the NHL has already stated it will give enough revenue sharing to make every team hit the min.

    so why does the NHLPA continue to ask for more revenue sharing

    its a battle cry that is worthless

    as long as every team hits the min. and its keep NHLPA jobs, it is none of their business if To. makes 30 million and Pittsburgh breaks even
     
  18. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    Using the Leavitt report 2002-03
    $23.4 million profit as opposed to a $273 million loss


    Using the Forbes report 2003-04
    $38.1 million profit as opposed to a $96 million loss
     
  19. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    That's all I care about, and all I would want in my proposal.
     
  20. likea

    likea Registered User

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    is that counting revenue sharing?????

    if 10 teams need money to hit your salary floor they will only get 2 million or 3 million dollars????

    and then the NHL is losing money again right?????
     
  21. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    That's total money. Revenue sharing wouldn't change the league wide figures, just the individual team-by-team profit/loss numbers.
     
  22. likea

    likea Registered User

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    ok, ya, I thought of it a different way...sorry
     
  23. officeglen

    officeglen Registered User

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    Good ideas, though the two sides seem bent on destruction.

    If I were the representing the players, I would wait until about now, and then offer:

    Entry Level - as per NHL.

    Arbitration - as per NHL.

    Free Agency - as per NHL.

    Qualifying offers - 85%

    Free Agency - 30

    Luxury Tax -
    $38 million - $1.00
    $42 million - $1.50
    $47 million - $2.00
    $52 million - $3.00
    $57 million - $4.00
    $62 million - $5.00
    Ranges adjusted each year based on overall revenue (3rd party verification)

    If player costs over 58% of overall revenue, all luxury tax $ goes to NHL to redistribute as it sees fit (likely rewarding teams with controlled player costs). If player costs 52-58%, luxury tax $ split 70-30, 70 to NHL. If player costs less than 52%, all luxury tax $ (should not be much) goes to NHLPA to redistribute as it sees fit. The NHLPA avoids hard cap. The NHL gets a system to finally control costs.

    I would get this offer out in the media, and then let the owners decide.
     
  24. likea

    likea Registered User

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    also John

    lets not forget that the league is going to take a major hit in revenue but costs for the team like hotels, food money..ect...ect will remain the same

    I just think 60% is way too much

    1 million profit per team is not that much money...esp when you consider the hit that they will take in the next 5 years
     
  25. dakota

    dakota Registered User

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    Good article on the nfl cap a few years old but it compares it to what Bettman wants

    http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/12-14cba.htm

    Basically, through the CBA the parties have realized that the goal of the players and the management should be the same—increasing the revenue pie instead of fighting over the existing amount—and the NFL has tailored the CBA to achieve that end
     
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