What Number D is Morgan Rielly THIS SEASON?

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

So?

I don't consider Tampa Bay some defensive juggernaut either. Tampa leads the league in goals scored. Toronto isn't far behind.

but considering Tampa has the reputation as clear cup favorite (unless Nashville has surpassed them), and Toronto is first round fodder because our defense sucks, the actual difference in goals we've allowed is practically non-existent.

 

[Sojourn]

but considering Tampa has the reputation as clear cup favorite (unless Nashville has surpassed them), and Toronto is first round fodder because our defense sucks, the actual difference in goals we've allowed is practically non-existent.

You're moving the goal posts here. You're deflecting.

There are a couple of reasons why Tampa is probably a Cup favorite while some may not consider Toronto one. First off, they went to the Cup Finals not that long ago, and the Conference Finals even more recently. Admittedly, last season they missed the playoffs entirely by a hair, but the mass of injuries they had to deal with was a large contributor. Tampa is a team who has recently been successful in the playoffs, but who just doesn't have a Cup to show for it. Toronto has no such history.

Furthermore, while Tampa may not be some defensive juggernaut, they have one of the best defensemen in the game leading their blue line. They are one of those teams with a #1 in every position. They have offensive depth, and one of the Hart favorites. So, right there, you've got a Hart candidate, a Norris candidate, and arguably a Vezina candidate on their team. Combine that with their playoff experience, and that's your answer.

Toronto doesn't have any of that, except maybe on the Vezina side, and I think most would have Andersen at top 4 or lower. For the sake of argument, sure, let's call him a Vezina candidate.

The short version is that both are teams that rely heavily on offense to win games, and Tampa Bay is just on another level at accomplishing that.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Polak is +5 so I guess he's better.

Damn....you came for the boy with that one

 

[Isaac Nootin]

How is he a 1D if he's 4th among leafs defensemen in ice-time per game?

Remeber when you claimed Auston Matthews only made the Team North America roster over Galchenyuk to help sell tickets? You clearly aren't to be taken seriously.

 

[Mickey Marner]

44

 

[LeafsNation75]

You're moving the goal posts here. You're deflecting.

There are a couple of reasons why Tampa is probably a Cup favorite while some may not consider Toronto one. First off, they went to the Cup Finals not that long ago, and the Conference Finals even more recently. Admittedly, last season they missed the playoffs entirely by a hair, but the mass of injuries they had to deal with was a large contributor. Tampa is a team who has recently been successful in the playoffs, but who just doesn't have a Cup to show for it. Toronto has no such history.

Furthermore, while Tampa may not be some defensive juggernaut, they have one of the best defensemen in the game leading their blue line. They are one of those teams with a #1 in every position. They have offensive depth, and one of the Hart favorites. So, right there, you've got a Hart candidate, a Norris candidate, and arguably a Vezina candidate on their team. Combine that with their playoff experience, and that's your answer.

Toronto doesn't have any of that, except maybe on the Vezina side, and I think most would have Andersen at top 4 or lower. For the sake of argument, sure, let's call him a Vezina candidate.

The short version is that both are teams that rely heavily on offense to win games, and Tampa Bay is just on another level at accomplishing that.

When looking at some factors this season Toronto has had more injuries to players like Matthews, Andersen and Zaitsev, so no one can say they were lucky to be a healthy team like they were last season. However once all is set and done they are going to finish with a better record this season and if you want to include their head to head games with Tampa they match up just as well with them. They lost the first game 2-0, won the next 4-3 and lost the most recent game 4-3 in a shootout.

 

[garyturner3]

I think he's definitely reached #1 territory. Probably more on the lower end of the tier, but #1 regardless. He's doing everything for them this season and you don't see him screw up very often. Some people are still under the illusion that he's a purely offensive guy just because of how well he skates, but that's far from the truth now.

 

[Machinehead]

-5 on a +35 differential team..
Bad defensively (even without looking at +/-) but looking real good offensively so I'd say a 2/3.

His goals for percentage is positive.

+/- is a wildly inaccurate stat.

 

[wintersej]

One of the worst defensive teams in the league that has also somehow managed to allow the 10th fewest goals eh?

Anderson has been great. Come on, you know this.

 

[SniperHF]

I'm not sure he's cracked the top 31 defensemen in the league. So no not a #1. I probably wouldn't argue much if you had him over a few of the other borderline guys though.

Most people don't agree with me that there are 31 #1 defensemen in the league though, at least based on polls around here anyway, so I think Rieilly's case in the common way people talk about "True #1 defenseman" is pretty weak.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Anderson has been great. Come on, you know this.

He hasn't been so good that you can just assume the Leafs would be the worst defensive team in the league without him. I mean that is kinda crazy lol. Especially when you look at the record of Mcbackup. The Leafs team defense is being terribly under rated by you.

 

[Sojourn]

When looking at some factors this season Toronto has had more injuries to players like Matthews, Andersen and Zaitsev, so no one can say they were lucky to be a healthy team like they were last season. However once all is set and done they are going to finish with a better record this season and if you want to include their head to head games with Tampa they match up just as well with them. They lost the first game 2-0, won the next 4-3 and lost the most recent game 4-3 in a shootout.

By NHL standards, Toronto has been pretty healthy.

And I would never look at the head-to-head games in the regular season as an indicator of which team is better.

 

[LeafsNation75]

By NHL standards, Toronto has been pretty healthy.

And I would never look at the head-to-head games in the regular season as an indicator of which team is better.

I mean compared to last season with Matthews missing at least 19 games counting tonight and Zaitsev missing multiple games so far, the Leafs have not had the same luck when it comes to injuries. Last season some fans of other teams said them being healthy is why they were lucky to make the playoffs and said it like that's a bad thing.

I know that head to head games in the regular season should be taken with a grain of salt, however in 2013 prior to Toronto playing Boston a lot of people said the Leafs had no chance due to Boston dominating them in the regular season. If they play Boston again this year in the first round does that mean we can not use Toronto going 4-0-0 against them last season and 3-1-0 this season as an advantage for them?

 

[wintersej]

He hasn't been so good that you can just assume the Leafs would be the worst defensive team in the league without him. I mean that is kinda crazy lol. Especially when you look at the record of Mcbackup. The Leafs team defense is being terribly under rated by you.

Um have you seen the Leafs HDSCA numbers?

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Um have you seen the Leafs HDSCA numbers?

The Leafs are 20th in the league or something aren't they? I haven't looked in a while and I'm on my phone. Either way doesn't really change my point.

 

[LeafGrief]

Um have you seen the Leafs HDSCA numbers?

They're 20th in the league. According to Natural Stattrick they have allowed 628 HDSCA in 71 games. For reference, the Nashville predators have 583 against (13th) and the Pittsburgh Penguins have 679 against (25th). The Leafs are ahead of defensively respected teams such as the Blue Jackets, Ducks, and Capitals. They are also behind some real losers like the Buffalo Sabres, Canucks, and Red Wings. I will agree that the Leafs defense is a weakness on a very good team, but HDSCA alone does not accurately measure defensive abilities and even if it does, it points at the Leafs being slightly below average and the Predators as slightly above average.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

A solid #2. He is great on the offensive side of the puck, very inconsistent on the defensive side, as his his buddy Jake Gardiner. These two wouldn't be so highly regarded this year if Andersen wasn't playing out of his mind.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

These two wouldn't be so highly regarded this year if Andersen wasn't playing out of his mind.

Do the same rules apply for anyone playing in front of Vasilevski, Rask, Rinne, Hellebucyk .....etc? Or is this exclusive to Toronto?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Solid #2.

 

[Machinehead]

By NHL standards, Toronto has been pretty healthy.

And I would never look at the head-to-head games in the regular season as an indicator of which team is better.

I agree, because some matchups are just weird.

The Hurricanes haven't beaten the Rangers since they were in Hartford (obviously that's not entirely true, but that's how the saying goes) and I would say the Hurricanes are a better team, even if it's marginal.

Also, the Rangers went from, I believe, 2011 to 2014 without scoring a goal in Montreal. And that's not an idiom like the Hartford thing, we literally went a good three years getting shut out at the Bell Centre. I think we've beaten Carey Price there in the regular season twice in his entire career. And yet we won there twice in three games in the 2014 playoffs and twice in three games in the 2017 playoffs

 

[LeafsNation75]

Do the same rules apply for anyone playing in front of Vasilevski, Rask, Rinne, Hellebucyk .....etc? Or is this exclusive to Toronto?

You should know by now there are always a different set of rules for Leafs players compared to players from other teams.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Do the same rules apply for anyone playing in front of Vasilevski, Rask, Rinne, Hellebucyk .....etc? Or is this exclusive to Toronto?

Fair point, but I'd argue those teams rely far less on their goaltending than Toronto. Andersen should be a Vezina finalist for how well he's been playing considering how often the Leafs leave him out to dry, it's insane how many times he bails out the team every night.

 

[Sojourn]

I mean compared to last season with Matthews missing at least 19 games counting tonight and Zaitsev missing multiple games so far, the Leafs have not had the same luck when it comes to injuries. Last season some fans of other teams said them being healthy is why they were lucky to make the playoffs and said it like that's a bad thing.

I know that head to head games in the regular season should be taken with a grain of salt, however in 2013 prior to Toronto playing Boston a lot of people said the Leafs had no chance due to Boston dominating them in the regular season. If they play Boston again this year in the first round does that mean we can not use Toronto going 4-0-0 against them last season and 3-1-0 this season as an advantage for them?

You're free to "use" whatever you want, but if that series happens it still starts 0-0. There is no advantage gained for winning a regular season series. The playoffs are a different beast, and teams approach them differently.

I'm not saying don't be optimistic. Just don't expect people to agree that the regular season games show you how the playoffs will go against an individual team. The argument works both ways, too. It's not suddenly a good argument just because it goes against the Leafs. People can throw that at you, but it doesn't mean you need to pay any attention to it. Now, if people said they thought Boston would win because they matched up better in terms of strengths and weaknesses, or because they had more playoff success, or it was just felt they were a stronger team over the season... I think those arguments carry a bit more weight. I'd probably still qualify it at the end by saying the playoffs are a brand new season, and not to rest on the regular season laurels. That's just my personal opinion.

 

[Halla]

tough call. low end #1D/high end #2D.

44pts in 66 games is pretty good.

 

[bob27]

Don't think you can be classified as a #1D if you are 4th on ice time among defencemen in your own team.