What if we get Dahlin?

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Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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Sorry, but there's some slight of hand going on here.

The first point you make about replicating a cup winner is looking for players who fulfilled similar roles. This is apparently something you shouldn't do. There is no reason why you must specify ''big and heavy'' in this analysis, only, though. The phrase which set you off was ''look at previous cup winners.'' Well, indeed, since ''[you're] not saying don't look at previous cup winners'' one can look at previous cup winners in many ways: specifically by analyzing what, if any, statistical trends are more prevalent in cup winners and their players than in non-cup winners. Or in other words:

Go back and look at the post I replied. Was that post doing an in depth analysis? Or was it saying that you don't need X type of player but need Y type of player, look at past cup winners?

Well, in order to do that, you will have to look at the players who actually won. It's not ''playing catch up.'' It's just how you do the thing. About league environments, you do have to assume some stationarity, but there's a pretty strong argument that league conditions are relatively stationary, with a few abrupt changes every decade or so, and it's based entirely on looking at cup winners: cup winners tend to repeat.

Where the slight of hand comes in is the second point: it's not at all about evaluating which players contribute to your winning (beyond ''investing in analytics''), or what team type of team composition would best accomplish the goal of winning - which was the point that old mate was trying to make originally - but how to optimize team operations. But in order to do that, you need to have a goal, and those goals are what players do we need to fill what roles. In so far as your second point concerns ''proper evaluation of what different players contribute to winning'' any analytics team who knew what they were doing would be doing the exact same process that I described, because that's how analytics work.

It seems like you think that inference and prediction are disjoint tasks. Like, we should be proactive, and attempt to predict how to win. But to predict what will be successful in the future, we need to infer with what sensitivity different players and roles affected a team's success. The prediction will be based on this inference. There's never been a prediction algorithm that didn't do basically this.

P.S. I don't know how you can suggest that we can't tank effectively with the new rules, but we can look at how teams like Chicago used back diving contracts to a competitive advantage with a straight face.

Holy shit, are you inferring a ton of my meaning. You're arguing, generally speaking, the same thing I am but assuming that I mean something else.

Also, I in no way said that Montreal should use back diving contracts. I said that they should look at what made a team like LA successful. They used back diving contracts. Clearly Montreal can't use that right now.

there's no "slight of hand" here. You're just shadowboxing.
 

Habs Halifax

Loyal Habs Fan
Jul 11, 2016
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Sign a star Center?? When is the last star center to hit the ufa market?? I really dont see how we are gonna get an elite 1st line center short term and long term!!

We got to find someone to blame for that don’t we? I wonder?

I agree, we are going to have a difficult time to acquire a top 2 center who is elite level! Need more top 10 lottery picks! If we can’t get Tavares, let’s go after another lottery pick win next year!
 
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Fish on The Sand

Untouchable
Feb 28, 2002
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Sign a star Center?? When is the last star center to hit the ufa market?? I really dont see how we are gonna get an elite 1st line center short term and long term!!
I guess technically it was probably Henrik Sedin. He was a UFA for a few hours in 2009. Stamkos went far enough into the process that he was able to negotiate with other teams in 2016. I suspect Tavares never hits the market too. Even if he's not staying with the Isles. If he's unsigned and gets to negotiate with other teams and he finds a match, that team will trade for his rights and lock him up before hitting the market.
 

S Bah

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
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Jack Hughes, Dylan Cozens and Kirby Dach... three centers to watch for next draft.

2019 is the year to draft a great #1 center, no doubt about it.

I guess technically it was probably Henrik Sedin. He was a UFA for a few hours in 2009. Stamkos went far enough into the process that he was able to negotiate with other teams in 2016. I suspect Tavares never hits the market too. Even if he's not staying with the Isles. If he's unsigned and gets to negotiate with other teams and he finds a match, that team will trade for his rights and lock him up before hitting the market.

Tavares certainly would look great in the Canadiens Bleu, Blanc et Rouge IMHO!!!...:devdance::devdance::devdance:

Turcotte, Suzuki, Lavoie as well. It's going to be LOADED with centers.

Like I said 2019 is a great draft class for #1 centers.:walrus::walrus::walrus:

Dahlin will look good with the Habs CH on his chest.
 
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Runner77

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Jun 24, 2012
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If we get him, we'll probably send him to the minors

There's a better chance that he'll be converted to some other position. :sarcasm:

What if we get Dahlin? We can't even get Drebin. And Frank Drebin is a Habs fan who used to post a lot more prior to this past season.

Can't wait for this lottery thing to be over.

p.s. Ozy, how do I get Frank Drebin's attention? Is it like this: @Frank Drebin ?
 

Scintillating10

Registered User
Jun 15, 2012
19,137
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Generational blue liner will be what what we need to be what exactly ? The Ottawa Senators? ..... Have they not had one for some time?

As long as this GM is running the show........ I dont care if we get Subban back and add Heddon..............without top fight centerman .....TOAST
Ottawa got to without a goal of Cup Finals last spring
 

DXStriker

Registered User
Nov 15, 2016
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We are either drafting 6th or 7th and getting Veleno , French Center . Or we are trading it for a Attitude inspiring player
 

sandviper

No Ragrets
Jan 26, 2016
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There are some draft scenarios out there where Dahlin doesn't get picked first. Depends if the lottery winners need an elite winger first.

Automated mocks, sure, I can see that happen but any GM who picks a player other than Dahlin with #1 will be fired before making it to the group picture with the draft pick.

Unless Ryan McLeod is available for some :sarcasm:
 

koyvoo

Registered User
Nov 8, 2014
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Only in fantasy hockey is there an option other than Dahlin going #1. All 31 NHL GMs would select the Swede first overall.
 
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Wandering Maroon

Registered User
Sep 11, 2010
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We will probably pick 4th, it's a toss up between Wahlstrom and Tkachuk. Both bring intangibles that the other doesn't Wahlstrom is a sniper who can play RW and LW, Tkachuk is a banger C and LW. It's the other rounds that will determine how good a draft we have. Kevin Bahl RD, Allen McShane C, Phillip Kurachev C, Adam Ginning LD, David Gustafsson C would all be great picks.
 

Captain Mountain

Formerly Captain Wolverine
Jun 6, 2010
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We will probably pick 4th, it's a toss up between Wahlstrom and Tkachuk. Both bring intangibles that the other doesn't Wahlstrom is a sniper who can play RW and LW, Tkachuk is a banger C and LW. It's the other rounds that will determine how good a draft we have. Kevin Bahl RD, Allen McShane C, Phillip Kurachev C, Adam Ginning LD, David Gustafsson C would all be great picks.

Of all the possible places Montreal can pick, 4th is literally the least likely. 6th is the most likely position, followed by 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 7th and 4th respectively.
 

1909

Registered User
Jul 6, 2016
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There is a 68% chance we draft 5th, 6th, or 7th.

60% chance it's 5th or 6th.

I'm praying for top 4, about a 32% chance of that.


Maybe it's better to draft 7th.... I don't trust MB and Timmins to take the better one if they draft top-four. At least at the 7th spot, they will have less very good players in the pool to draft from.

Besides Dahlin and possibly Svechnikov, the following 6-7 players have about the same value right now.
 

Habs100

Registered User
Nov 6, 2013
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Maybe it's better to draft 7th.... I don't trust MB and Timmins to take the better one if they draft top-four. At least at the 7th spot, they will have less very good players in the pool to draft from.

Besides Dahlin and possibly Svechnikov, the following 6-7 players have about the same value right now.

Who did you want Timmins to draft that he didn't in the past with lottery picks?

Did you want Gilbert Brule or Benoit Pouliot over Carey Price?

Did you want Nail Yakupov, Matt Dumba, Ryan Murray, Griffin Reinhart, Derrick Pouliot or Grigorenko ibstead of Galchenyuk?

Did you want Logan Brown over Sergachev?

Did you want Thomas Hickey, Karl Alzner, Sam Gagner, Zac Hamill, Keaton Ellerby, Brandon Sutter, Lars eller, Alex Plante, Colton Gilles, Ian Cole, Logan MacMillan, etc... over Ryan McDonagh?

Sure the Kostistyn pick was a miss. But he's more than made up for that by plucking great talent out of a pool filled with misses. Some teams with a lottery pick are going to come away from this draft with a bust who either won't make the league or will be a depth player. I'm thankful Timmins, because of his track record, should find a top six forward or top 4 dman, perhaps a top line forward or top pairing dman.
 

Vlad The Impaler

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
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Montreal
I can't think of one team that won the Stanley Cup with an elite defender and no first line center.

Ducks won it with the kind of centers you can easily find and plug in a lineup.

There is no unique recipe or essential part to win a cup. Not even a good coach or GM has been required historically. It's a game where collective talent, momentum and some luck will give you the cup.
 

WeThreeKings

Habs cup - its in the BAG
Sep 19, 2006
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Ducks won it with the kind of centers you can easily find and plug in a lineup.

There is no unique recipe or essential part to win a cup. Not even a good coach or GM has been required historically. It's a game where collective talent, momentum and some luck will give you the cup.

Yeah Getzlafs are easy to find.
 
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