What has the cap accomplished so far?

[hockeytown9321]

One of the many reasons I was told a cap was necessary was so that teams like Tampa could hang onto their core players.

Anybody want to explain to me why Khabibulin bolted for the money?

Click to read more...

 

[hockeydadx2*]

The cap doesn't guarantee that a team can keep ALL of it's key players (unless you are the New England Patriots). Nor does it guarantee that a free agent actually wants to stay in a given location, money or no money.

I don't know what happened with Bulin, but I'm assuming that Tampa decided to prioritize it's money in such a way that he was left out.

 

[GentlemanOfLeisure]

Without a cap, Roenick doesnt get traded to L.A.

Niedermayer signs with the Canucks for 9 mill a year.

Adam Foote re-signs in Colorado.

Chris Pronger doesnt get traded to edmonton.

Tony Amonte never signs in Calgary

Buffalo holds onto Miro Satan.

Carolina gets more than just future considerations for Jeff O'Neill

Holik doesnt get bought out, and remains a rangers, as does Derian Hatcher who would remain a red-wing.

 

[X0ssbar]

Without a cap, Roenick doesnt get traded to L.A.

Niedermayer signs with the Canucks for 9 mill a year.

Adam Foote re-signs in Colorado.

Chris Pronger doesnt get traded to edmonton.

Tony Amonte never signs in Calgary

Buffalo holds onto Miro Satan.

Carolina gets more than just future considerations for Jeff O'Neill

Holik doesnt get bought out, and remains a rangers, as does Derian Hatcher who would remain a red-wing.

Also add:

Kariya does not sign with the Preds

Bulin Wall stays in Tampa

Forsberg stays in Colorado

Peca remains on the Island

Penguins do not sign Gonchar

Holik stays a Ranger

Nieuwendyk/Roberts/Gelinas are not Panthers

I would say the cap has done plenty.

 

[garypl]

Cap inthe first year was expected to redistribute talent so that the smaller teams with lower payroll would have the opportunity with revenue sharing to sign better players and compete--This has happenned and the players have benefitted with higher then expected sals to the TOP PLAYERS available--Now watch the bargains come up on the other end as teams are almost maxed out

 

[BLONG7]

Once the dust settles, the cap and revenue sharing makes the league a better run business...as far as Bulin and his insane amount of money from the Hawks, it's what some markets have to do is overpay to get a guy in a city that has let it's team get run down for the past several years...

 

[MojoJojo]

One of the many reasons I was told a cap was necessary was so that teams like Tampa could hang onto their core players.

Anybody want to explain to me why Khabibulin bolted for the money?

1. Khabibulin was in Tampa for the money to begin with.

2. The point of the cap is to restrain player salary, not to freeze player movement.

3. Tampa can now resign LeCavalier and St Louis for less than 8 milion dollars now, which is what they could have easily gotten under the old CBA.

 

[hockeytown9321]

2. The point of the cap is to restrain player salary, not to freeze player movement.

Not according to the many people who shouted me down for a year. I was told in no uncertain terms that teams like Tampa and Ottawa could not reatin their players under the last system, but could under a cap.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Not according to the many people who shouted me down for a year. I was told in no uncertain terms that teams like Tampa and Ottawa could not reatin their players under the last system, but could under a cap.

link to a post that said that? Even if you could find one or two there are likely multiples of thousands of posts to this board that say just what happened would happen.

 

[hockeytown9321]

link to a post that said that? Even if you could find one or two there are likely multiples of thousands of posts to this board that say just what happened would happen.

I could find a lot more than one or two. I don't feel like searching for them now. If you want to find some, my philosophical argument phase was between Spetember and January, you'd probably find some of these statements there.

You will find a few posts saying what happend to Tampa would happen. Many of them were written by me. Since that was my argument, I was obviously wrong since I am only concerned with the Red Wings being able to continue bying championships, and the opposite must've been true.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

You can't keep all your superstars, but the cap sure as heck is going to help Tampa keep St. Louis and Lecavalier.
In the old system Tampa would face losing a lot more the Khabby.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I could find a lot more than one or two. I don't feel like searching for them now. If you want to find some, my philosophical argument phase was between Spetember and January, you'd probably find some of these statements there.

You will find a few posts saying what happend to Tampa would happen. Many of them were written by me. Since that was my argument, I was obviously wrong since I am only concerned with the Red Wings being able to continue bying championships, and the opposite must've been true.

I do not see the fans of teams that you keep claiming are most hurt by this new CBA complaining. Far from it. The only ones that seem to be whining are fans of teams who have grown used to having their way with their wallets. Your heartfelt 'concern' for the fans fo TB and other teams is pretty transparent, always has been.

 

[MojoJojo]

Not according to the many people who shouted me down for a year. I was told in no uncertain terms that teams like Tampa and Ottawa could not reatin their players under the last system, but could under a cap.

In fact the point was so that teams like Colorado, Detroit, Philly, and yes, Tampa could not dominate with a team full of superstars. Tampa has Vinny, StLouis, and Richards, be happy. Its called parity. Try living in Chicago, a team with no superstar and no chance of winning, and tell me that the system should protect Tampa from ever losing a player to free agency.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

In fact the point was so that teams like Colorado, Detroit, Philly, and yes, Tampa could not dominate with a team full of superstars. Tampa has Vinny, StLouis, and Richards, be happy. Its called parity. Try living in Chicago, a team with no superstar and no chance of winning, and tell me that the system should protect Tampa from ever losing a player to free agency.

We need to stop agreeing like this. It hurts both of our reputations.

 

[hockeytown9321]

I do not see the fans of teams that you keep claiming are most hurt by this new CBA complaining. Far from it. The only ones that seem to be whining are fans of teams who have grown used to having their way with their wallets. Your heartfelt 'concern' for the fans fo TB and other teams is pretty transparent, always has been.

I could care less about Tampa, you're right. Just wanted to point out that the cap has failed already, not in what it was designed for by the league(profitability), but in what many fans thought it would do. Its an example of be careful what you wish for. Every well managed team will feel the consequences of the cap at one point or another.

 

[Pepper]

Kariya during old CBA: 10M per year (forget the freak deal with Avs)
Kariya during new CBA: 4.5M

'Nuff said.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I could care less about Tampa, you're right. Just wanted to point out that the cap has failed already, not in what it was designed for by the league(profitability), but in what many fans thought it would do. Its an example of be careful what you wish for. Every well managed team will feel the consequences of the cap at one point or another.

So? My team, the Pens, will feel it if everything goes as we hope when Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Orpik, Whitney all come up as FA's at once. Guess what, we are going to lose some of the above. And we went through some god-awful hockey to get those players too. I know, I watched the vast majority of the games. So what, that is how it is supposed to be. You just go through down times and rebuild again. That is far preferable than having Detroit and 3 or 4 other teams buy up the entire league. I would rather lose those players in 5 or 6 years to Nashville, Phoenix, or anyone else than have them all go to Detroit or Colorado. I can understand why you feel otherwise, but do not come here shedding crockadile tears for TB, etc, when you really just want a sytem where you can corner the market on players every year and NEVER have to go through three years of rebuilding as we did . .. or five or six years as some teams have. Let Nashville take my players when the time comes. I would be happy for that rather than the world you want.

 

[hockeytown9321]

So? My team, the Pens, will feel it if everything goes as we hope when Crosby, Malkin, Fleury, Orpik, Whitney all come up as FA's at once. Guess what, we are going to lose some of the above. And we went through some god-awful hockey to get those players too. I know, I watched the vast majority of the games. So what, that is how it is supposed to be. You just go through down times and rebuild again. That is far preferable than having Detroit and 3 or 4 other teams buy up the entire league. I would rather lose those players in 5 or 6 years to Nashville, Phoenix, or anyone else than have them all go to Detroit or Colorado. I can understand why you feel otherwise, but do not come here shedding crockadile tears for TB, etc, when you really just want a sytem where you can corner the market on players every year and NEVER have to go through three years of rebuilding as we did . .. or five or six years as some teams have. Let Nashville take my players when the time comes. I would be happy for that rather than the world you want.

I guess I don't understand why you want a system where you are foced to get rid of players. Why is that a good thing?

Can you also provide me with a list of players the Red Wings bought from Pittsburgh?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I guess I don't understand why you want a system where you are foced to get rid of players. Why is that a good thing?

Can you also provide me with a list of players the Red Wings bought from Pittsburgh?

Nice red herring. Will not work. Try and deny that your motivation is really to have Detroit never have to go through a rebuilding season and to be cup contenders every single year at the expense of at least 80% of the rest of the league. We all know what your real concerns are.

 

[hockeytown9321]

Nice red herring. Will not work. Try and deny that your motivation is really to have Detroit never have to go through a rebuilding season and to be cup contenders every single year at the expense of at least 80% of the rest of the league. We all know what your real concerns are.

Get back to me on that list(go ahead and include every other team in the leauge if you want).

Yes, my goal is to see Detroit be Cup contenders every year. I'm appalled that its not every other team and every other fan's goal too.

They've been able to be contenders becuase of good management. Every core player was either drafted or traded for. They had a whopping 3 significant free agents on their 3 Cup teams, one stolen from LA, one from Toronto, and one from LA.

The real red herring here is that people like you constantly cry and complain that Detroit or Colorado or New York prevented your team from winning. The fact is, your team was **** becuase the had **** management.

 

[Resolute]

Anybody want to explain to me why Khabibulin bolted for the money?

You are aware you answered your own question, right?

 

[hockeytown9321]

You are aware you answered your own question, right?

OK then, explain why the cap did not deflate salaries enough so that Tampa could've kept him.

 

[Resolute]

I guess I don't understand why you want a system where you are foced to get rid of players. Why is that a good thing?

Indeed. Such a system is terrible.

I couldnt imagine if the Flames were to ever be forced to get rid of Vernon, MacInnis, Suter, Nieuwendyk, Fleury, etc.

Oh, wait...

Welcome to the level playing field, Detriot. You get to live under the same rules as we do.

Prove you can adapt, or fail.

 

[Resolute]

OK then, explain why the cap did not deflate salaries enough so that Tampa could've kept him.

Tampa could have kept him if (a) he wanted to stay there, and (b) they were willing to match the Blackhawks offer.

Players are going to jump at the money regardless of the system. Perhaps you should be asking Khabibulin why he chose not to remain in Tampa for less money.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Detroit absolutely had good management, as did Colorado and Toronto. But, they also had money. Lots of it.
You can have the best front office in the world, but in a system where there are no limits to salary and payroll, the teams that were rolling in dough simply had to up any offer by a few million, knowing few if any could match it.
Those days are gone.

You're surprised by player movement? This has been expected all along.

Now's a time for new management strategies.

JF hit it on the head. As a Jackets fan, there will come a time when Nash, Klesla, Zherdev, Brule, etc. are going to be FAs around the same time. Assuming they all develop into quality players, the Jackets won't be able to keep some of them.
I accept that. It's a hell of a lot better than a system where the Jackets would face losing all of them.

And on the subject of Detroit -- it isn't just an issue of bringing in FAs. It's an issue of being able to keep your home grown players, something many small market teams have been unable to do under the old system (see Edmonton).