What happens: injuries / new CBA

Discussion in 'The Business of Hockey' started by devilman, Jun 23, 2005.

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  1. devilman

    devilman Registered User

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    If a team has very bad luck like LA had, what happens with all the Allison's, Deadmarshe's and so on salaries when they were injured?

    If this constellation happens, what's going to happen? You loose your 3 Centers, and you can just call up 1 center, and you have no extra room on your salary because of the cap. Is somebody playing for free?
     
  2. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    This isn't going to be like for 365 days a year you have to be under $40M (just to use a number). There will be a date, much like in the NBA, where you have to be under $40M, and after that date, you will be able to to over the $40 with callups and such. I'm assuming in the NHL's case you can't go over the number to sign anyone who is a free agent (even RFA's), but if you need to go over a few million for callups and callups only, you'll probably be allowed to do that, provided that you don't sign good players to minor league contracts just to call them up.
     
  3. CGG

    CGG Registered User

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    I imagine you'd be allowed to replace an injured guy's salary with another player. Shouldn't be a problem to call a player up from the minors. Or if a $4 million player is hurt, you can sign or trade for another $4 million player to replace him. But that wouldn't be a smart strategy, since once the injured player returns, you have to be back under the cap again.
     
  4. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    It won't be 365 days a year, but it will very likely be in effect during the entire duration of the season. A team will have to get under the cap by some date (Sept?) and stay under for the entire season. Otherwise the system is ripe for abuse. Wait until after that date and sign a UFA/RFA, make lopsided (from a salary perspective) trade, etc.

    The NBA does require teams to stay under the cap (with all its loopholes and exemptions) during the season. That is why all the in season trades have extra bodies thrown in to make the cap numbers work out. There are exemptions to allow a team to go over the cap to sign a minimum salary player for a temporary replacement and a disabled player exemption that gives them back up to 50% of the cap salary for an injured player who is out for the rest of the year.

    The NFL has a hard cap and the teams must get under it in July and stay under all season.

    No one knows all the details yet, but I would expect something similar to the NBA with some credit for a player on IR for season ending injuries.
     
  5. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    No, I'm saying for callups, teams will be allowed to go over the cap. I think the deal would be that the first 23 guys on the team has to be under the cap and after that you can go over for callups only. If you're calling someone up, he isn't making $4M, more like 400K, it wouldn't make much of a difference. Plus, how many teams will have a payroll of $39.94M?
     
  6. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    Maybe. We just don't know yet. It kind of makes sense to allow to teams go over for legitmate reasons, provides its within common sense. Losing a $3m players and bringing up a guy on $500K isn't really a rort. Most of the guys in the minors are on 2-way contracts anyway, they have to be because they are being counted against the cap for amounts over $75K (or so the rumours went). It's very unlikely genuine NHLers are going to want to sign 2-way deals. So even if Dallas tried to hide Turgeon in the minors they would still be stuck paying all but $75K against the cap.

    If minor leaguers are promoted to fill injuries that should be fine. Just count the salary of the highest paid player (either the injured or the call up, which would normally be the injured NHLer). The NHL just needs to add some rules that gives it some flexibility in preventing callups if it believes they are an attempt at cap avoidance, the same sort of vague wording that allows it to void deals between players and clubs.
     
  7. Buffaloed

    Buffaloed webmaster

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    The last I heard on this subject is that it's one of the issues that still has to be resolved.
     
  8. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    simplest way to handle it is to make the cap count against the active 23 man roster...if a player goes on IR or gets sent down he is no longer on the active roster and therefore shouldn't count against the cap. HOWEVER in order to put that guy back on the roster you need to have cap room.

    so if allison got hurt and was done for the year, the kings could free up $$ and replace him. but if he is only out a month and they clear room and bring someone else in via trade, then they will need to dump guys to activate allison from ir

    (and just to note this isn't a rumor, just my idea of how to handle it)
     
  9. me2

    me2 Calling out the crap

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    IR yes, sent down no. Otherwise you open up the system to rorting.

    Belfour wants to play for 2 more years and retire

    team offers Belfour $1m, $1m $14m and then plays him for two and sends him down for the 3rd. Effectively $8m per year at the price of $1m against the cap. Not going to be allowed.
     
  10. Hasbro

    Hasbro Can He Skate?! Sponsor

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    And players on IR opens up the outbreak of 24th Man Disease.
     
  11. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    In a Brooks article he did say that at one point the NHL wanted injured players included in the cap number .. At least it was in the Final offer anyways ..

    Which is obviously an area of contention .. because injuries are certainly a big part of the NHL ..

    Perhaps your Farm team call-ups on 2 way contracts is the answer and you have to leave a portion of your Cap unused to allow for injuries ..

    Perhaps they follow the NFL model that if a player is placed on injured reserve then he is ineligible to play that season again and then can replaced.

    With guaranteed contracts this is a little more difficult to figure out ..
     
  12. Sp5618

    Sp5618 Registered User

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    I think too many responses here are how each poster "wants" IR to be handled, meaning in some reasonable fashion if you get 10 starters injured for any length of time.

    Didn't the Kings set the record the last season played, or they came pretty darn close to it?

    However, I don't believe the NHL proposals that we've seen thus far allow for any of these exemptions. The cap is a hard one, and if you get more injuries than say some average expectation...too bad. Perhaps that is one reason the NHLPA has had more resistance to those cap figures when they contain not only player salaries (as MOST fans assumed) but benefits, bonuses, IR, etc., etc., etc.
     
  13. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    not counting guys sent on conditioning assignments after injuries, how often do you see a big name, big $$ player clearing waivers and being sent down to the minors?? it almost never happens cause the team still has to pay the guy

    the situation you mentioned creates a potential problem but for a completely different reason. the problem is if you let teams sign guys like that and they can add players when they don't have cap room by backloading it until other contracts expire...

    but the solution to that is simple and imo practically a given, you count the average salary. it doesn't matter if you give the guy a huge signing bonus, front load it, backload it, whatever. if you give belfour $16 mil over 3 years it counts as $5.33 mil/year for 3 years regardless of how much he is actually getting each year.

    back in 97 when the rangers signed sakic to an offer sheet the base salary was $6 mil over 3 years with a $15 mil signing bonus up front...well when it came to RFA compensation had colorado not matched they weren't going to base it on $2 mil/year, they were going to base it on $7 mil year (6+15=21/3)
     
  14. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    You keep using that word, which doesn't exist. What the hell word are you shooting for? :)
     
  15. NYR469

    NYR469 Registered User

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    and yes you might create loopholes for teams to get around the cap, but guess what no matter how idiot proof they try to make it there are always going to be some loopholes

    but rather then worrying about the exceptions or teams looking to screw the system, focus on the legit situations where a team legitimately runs into injury problems...

    lets say next season toronto is crusing along as the best team in the league, they are heading down the stretch as the clear cut favors to finally win the cup and then sundin blows out his knee...is it fair to turn to the leafs and all their fans and say "sucks to be you. you can't replace him so your season is over, get out the golf clubs"?? wouldn't it be alot more fair and alot better for the league if there was some kind of exception where toronto could somehow replace sundin to avoid having the whole season ruined by one injury...

    and me idea of requiring the team to have enough cap room to activate the guy off IR would eliminate the risk of a top player getting hurt and replaced and then suddenly the injured player makes a miraculous recovery and returns for the playoffs. he wouldn't be allowed to return if his salary puts you over the limit.

    really this only an issue if a big $$ guy gets hurt, so it wouldn't even have to apply to all injured players.
     
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