What happened to Michael Rasmussen ?

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jkutswings

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Jul 10, 2014
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I have no idea what you're arguing about anymore.
That simply making the playoffs is not only an acceptable year now, but appears to be as high as management is willing to set the bar for the foreseeable future. That's a very shallow and mediocre way of thinking, bordering on loser mentality.

There's no real direction, let alone a bigger picture or 5-year plan. To borrow a line from South Park, it's:
1) Try to make playoffs.
2) ???
3) Profit.
 

Claypool

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Jan 12, 2009
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That simply making the playoffs is not only an acceptable year now, but appears to be as high as management is willing to set the bar for the foreseeable future. That's a very shallow and mediocre way of thinking, bordering on loser mentality.
He's said for several years now this team doesn't have any superstars and that he is trying to keep them competitive while the younger players (hopefully) transition in and take over. I guess I just don't see the problem with that line of thinking. How is trying to compete for a playoff spot while also focusing on drafting and development a loser mentality?
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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That simply making the playoffs is not only an acceptable year now, but appears to be as high as management is willing to set the bar for the foreseeable future. That's a very shallow and mediocre way of thinking, bordering on loser mentality.

There's no real direction, let alone a bigger picture or 5-year plan. To borrow a line from South Park, it's:
1) Try to make playoffs.
2) ???
3) Profit.
That's not at all what it sounded like in 15-16 when they made the playoffs. Holland wasn't pleased at all and admitted he didn't think the team was good enough.

But for what it's worth, I don't think you should ever enter a season without that goal of making the playoffs. You want your players to give 100% effort in an attempt to actually win games. You want a coach that is trying to win games. The steps are more like this for us:

1) Try to make playoffs
2A) If Competitive, keep it up, considering buying at TDL
2B) If not competitive, shift focus to future, sell at TDL
3A) Make playoffs, try to win cup, analyze team strengths and weaknesses based on performance and try to upgrade weaknesses in offseason
3B) Miss playoffs, enjoy higher draft pick, analyze team potential to plan how hard to push for goal #1 next season

We were in 3A mode for a long while, trying to upgrade our D. Now we entered 3B mode, and frankly Holland didn't push very hard for a playoff berth last offseason. He can talk the talk, and clearly it fooled at least some fans including you. But those who don't take every politician's words at face value knew the team was a longshot to make the playoffs and that Holland likely knew so as well.

You may not see the direction or believe there's a plan, but that seems like a shallow way of thinking if anything. Several long-term forward contracts at the same time as drafting shifts to a massive focus on d-men? Hmm..curious. A shift from buying at the TDL to a clear line of never selling 1sts and then towards selling at the TDL instead? Hmm, clearly no direction. And so on. You just gotta stop listening to marketing speech. They're not going to say "Buy you season tickets for the 18-19 season now! We're going to try and lose as much as possible, come watch the trainwreck unfold!".
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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I'm not asking him to sell right now. I'm asking him to resume holding a standard of excellence.

If the GM of Chicago or Boston or any other team that hadn't won a Cup in a few years stepped to the podium, and essentially said, 'winning championships is too hard now; fans need to lower their expectations', they'd be deservedly ridiculed.

My gripe with Holland is that, after so many years of historic success, he's changed his aspirations to act as if landing that sweet, sweet 8th seed is a year worthy of high fives all around.

Sooner or later, everybody's run is over, and that's fine. But that doesn't mean you then move the goalposts, and set the bar at making the playoffs for the next 5-10 years. He's not only acting like last year was a fluke, but that, if the stars aligned a bit better, that Detroit could return to The Promised Land of 'playoff bubble team'. As if that's the gold standard for NHL aspirations for everybody, and the core principle around which every team should be built.

I certainly don't expect any team to achieve excellence every year, not even the defending champs. But I darn well expect a team to pursue excellence. Fervently.

Whether that's reloading or rebuilding or maintaining, you strive to be the best. To have a team that can win it all. To shoot for the stars...not to shoot for the bubble.

We should be open for business right now. 10 points out at Christmas is not going to be reversed by a squad lacking in high-end talent.

I understand the rest of this, but Ken Holland's first act of business after Christmas break should be to call the 30 other GMs and say we are interested in moving players right now. It is white flag time, start talking now and if it is good enough to move the player do so, but if not it gives you two months to weigh offers instead of a couple weeks when we know nothing is likely to tangibly improve.

I do think Holland has been a little more honest than some of his larger detractors like to point out. However, those claims will have a lot more merit if he doesn't do the right thing and start selling right now, this season is over aside from development of the young guys that are the future of this team.

The player this thread is about should have every opportunity to make the team next season. It is important to our long-term future. We need to be thinking three or four years down the road first not really about the present.
 

Pavels Dog

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Feb 18, 2013
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We should be open for business right now. 10 points out at Christmas is not going to be reversed by a squad lacking in high-end talent.

I understand the rest of this, but Ken Holland's first act of business after Christmas break should be to call the 30 other GMs and say we are interested in moving players right now. It is white flag time, start talking now and if it is good enough to move the player do so, but if not it gives you two months to weigh offers instead of a couple weeks when we know nothing is likely to tangibly improve.

I do think Holland has been a little more honest than some of his larger detractors like to point out. However, those claims will have a lot more merit if he doesn't do the right thing and start selling right now, this season is over aside from development of the young guys that are the future of this team.
There are a handful of teams that are locks to make the playoffs at this point. And some likely don't have the need or the room to add what we're selling. There's no reason to think Holland isn't already taking some calls on guys like Mrazek/Green but if 3-4 teams are bidding now the value is lower than closer to the TDL when maybe 9-10 teams feel they're in a position to gear up for the playoffs. There's also the risk that you sell Green for example and it makes our D so much worse that the bottom falls out on the team and you hurt the value of remaining players even more. To maximize value of selling you really want to playing decent hockey for as long as possible. I mean you're not even seeing AZ/Buffalo/Ottawa selling and they're in worse position than us.

The player this thread is about should have every opportunity to make the team next season. It is important to our long-term future. We need to be thinking three or four years down the road first not really about the present.
As he will. The forward group is not crowded. We've been playing with 11 forwards a lot of the time. Booth/Witkowski are not part of our long-term plans and could be gone at the TDL. Frk is not someone whose job is safe and beyond that there's an outside chance a guy like Nyquist/AA is gone and a Z retirement is not out of the question. There is plenty of room for kids to challenge for jobs.
 

The Zetterberg Era

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Nov 8, 2011
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There are a handful of teams that are locks to make the playoffs at this point. And some likely don't have the need or the room to add what we're selling. There's no reason to think Holland isn't already taking some calls on guys like Mrazek/Green but if 3-4 teams are bidding now the value is lower than closer to the TDL when maybe 9-10 teams feel they're in a position to gear up for the playoffs. There's also the risk that you sell Green for example and it makes our D so much worse that the bottom falls out on the team and you hurt the value of remaining players even more. To maximize value of selling you really want to playing decent hockey for as long as possible. I mean you're not even seeing AZ/Buffalo/Ottawa selling and they're in worse position than us.


As he will. The forward group is not crowded. We've been playing with 11 forwards a lot of the time. Booth/Witkowski are not part of our long-term plans and could be gone at the TDL. Frk is not someone whose job is safe and beyond that there's an outside chance a guy like Nyquist/AA is gone and a Z retirement is not out of the question. There is plenty of room for kids to challenge for jobs.

Mike Green gets hurt a decent amount. We are out of it this year. Selling now if the offer is good enough makes sense.

I don't care about the bottom falling out worse, this team has lost what 12 out of their last 15 with a heavy home schedule. The bottom is out, the time to sell is upon us. The season is over... I trust Holland to do the right thing. Yes you're not negotiating with a gun to the head and that is key, he has two months to run into the deadline, but his best offer could come in tomorrow. The value of the players we are likely to sell is pretty established, we will be undoubtedly worse at moving the puck. Selling Mike Green in the next couple of weeks cements a bottom three finish. It gives us the opportunity to bring up a couple youngsters for long looks over the back-half of the season. It is the smart move at this point. Honestly, even if you wanted to re-sign him this off-season you still dump him now and try to pull a Tkachuk with him.

Also I would like the Ilitch family to step up and cover percentages of the contracts to improve the return. You don't think we can get more by offering to cover nearly half of Mike Green's remaining contract? Heck lets just take 20% off the rest of the year and his deal becomes really enticing for probably a couple of teams.
 

Henkka

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Jan 31, 2004
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Mike Green gets hurt a decent amount. We are out of it this year. Selling now if the offer is good enough makes sense.

Also I would like the Ilitch family to step up and cover percentages of the contracts to improve the return. You don't think we can get more by offering to cover nearly half of Mike Green's remaining contract? Heck lets just take 20% off the rest of the year and his deal becomes really enticing for probably a couple of teams.

I can't wait anything more than Edmonton climbing on the standings. That's the most perfect trade partner, they have some problems with cap because of rookie bonuses, but that's why we could help their run by taking the Fayne contract.

Fayne is injured but not LTIRred, because burying his 3.625M deal to minor saves them more deadline cap space. Getting totally off from that deal and getting a healthy player to solve their handness and PP problems would be huge upgrade for playoff run.

We could take that Fayne 3.625M total deal and eat 2.375M from Green's contract and they would have Mike Green for same price as injured Fayne currently is, for 3.625M. I think helping them with these cap problems for current season + also for becoming season (ELC bonus sliding problem) is more worth than a 1st rounder. 1st is a start but it will be MORE.

And we would have Fayne, we could LTIR him, because LTIRing is not a problem for us. Just push over the cap for that amount and take probably some other cap dump then in some other trade.
 
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Heaton

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Feb 13, 2004
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Too many posts to move, if you guys want to talk about selling, make a new thread about it. If you want to talk about Rasmussen, make another thread on that too.
 
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