What do you think will happen in Kansas City?

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
10,998
1,571
El Paso, TX
You have the audacity because you have AEG in on the deal. They're building a near monopoly of midsized outdoors concert venues (and thus will control a good % of music tours), own the Kings, own the Staples Center and part of the Lakers, and likely have the influence to eventually get that team. Any NBA or NHL owner looking to fill dates in their arena can get them from AEG. Oversaturated, maybe in some regareds, but KC has no arena team and thus no major league sports from Jan to April. The Roylas aren't exactly the biggest threat to an incoming sports team.

But you are missing the point. Even with no arena team, and only TWO major sports teams, they are one of the top overextended markets. That means people don't make enough money in KC to enjoy their two major sports teams. How can they afford to go to NHL games if according to the bizjournals survey, they can't afford to go to Chiefs and Royals.

Remember, overextended means: "The total amount of personal income the region generates is inadequate for its current teams, let alone any new ones." Sure KC will have corporate sponsorship, as evidenced by idiotic KC companies already locking up suites not knowing who will play there. But when attendence struggles, as these numbers indicate, the teams will want to leave. That is why AEG wants teams to be locked into KC for a long time, but teams considering moving won't do it.

And yes, I am also suggesting that AEG is completely nuts for being involved in building the Sprint Center.

P.S.
Also according to bizjournals, KC has no business getting an NBA or NHL team
http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0213/major_metros_chart.html?hbx=slide_sport_article

If AEG did this research, why on earth would they build an arena in KC?

Hell according to the survey, Joplin, MO is in a better position to support an NHL franchise than KC (but not by much).
 
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Westguy13

Registered User
Apr 6, 2005
1,524
0
Not KC...
But as it is, with only TWO major sports teams (Royals and Chiefs), KC is one of the top 5 overextended sports markets in US.

Yes I know, so is Pittsburgh, but that includes them having an NHL team.

Does any of the top 5 overextended sports markets in the US besides KC have only 2 major pro teams?

The point is, if KC is overextended with only 2 teams, how is adding a team (NHL or NBA) going to help the situation?

This is why KC is idiotic for building an arena without an anchor tenant. Sure the arena will do well for NCAA's and Big 12 basketball tourneys, but they've said from day one they wanted an NBA or NHL team.

How do you have the audacity to seek an NHL or NBA team when as a Two Sport City you are one of the top 5 most oversaturated sports markets in the country?

P.S. Check this out:
http://mirtle.blogspot.com/2007/03/kc-overextended-market.html

Number one is Tampa, and they are a three sport area: NFL, MLB, and NHL.

2 is Phoenix, which is four major sports: NFL, NBA, MLB, and NHL

3 is Denver, four major sport city

4 is Pittsburgh, 3 major sport city

and 5 is KC, what do you know? Top 5 overextended, but only TWO major sports teams.

According to this, hockey should come back to Hartford (if we are talking US only):
http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0213/sports_expansion/3.html

And this means what exactly? Uhh nothing really. Most over used arguement on this site if you ask me. Denver 3rd and all of their franchises are doing quite well. How is that over-extended? Not to mention that list is almost a joke. They use average average income instead of EBI(effective buying income). While people in Hartford make more money then people in KC it's cheaper to live in KC. KC has one of the highest EBI's in the United States which means per capita they have more money to spend on things like sports tickets. This also doesn't bring in to consideration buisness support which is one of the biggest factors and KC has proven that it has interest.
 

Westguy13

Registered User
Apr 6, 2005
1,524
0
Not KC...
But you are missing the point. Even with no arena team, and only TWO major sports teams, they are one of the top overextended markets. That means people don't make enough money in KC to enjoy their two major sports teams. How can they afford to go to NHL games if according to the bizjournals survey, they can't afford to go to Chiefs and Royals.

Remember, overextended means: "The total amount of personal income the region generates is inadequate for its current teams, let alone any new ones." Sure KC will have corporate sponsorship, as evidenced by idiotic KC companies already locking up suites not knowing who will play there. But when attendence struggles, as these numbers indicate, the teams will want to leave. That is why AEG wants teams to be locked into KC for a long time, but teams considering moving won't do it.

And yes, I am also suggesting that AEG is completely nuts for being involved in building the Sprint Center.

P.S.
Also according to bizjournals, KC has no business getting an NBA or NHL team
http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0213/major_metros_chart.html?hbx=slide_sport_article

If AEG did this research, why on earth would they build an arena in KC?

Hell according to the survey, Joplin, MO is in a better position to support an NHL franchise than KC (but not by much).

By the way Biz Journal is also the only organization that has said this while multiple very successful buisness men/organizations think it is a top option. What does that tell you? I'm sure the AEG and Boots Del Baggio are just jumping in to this blindly wanting to lose money. Yeah I'll take the word of teh people devoting millions instead of the magazine with nothing riding on it.
 

ChompChomp

Can't wait for Sharks hockey to return someday
Jan 8, 2007
10,998
1,571
El Paso, TX
And this means what exactly? Uhh nothing really. Most over used arguement on this site if you ask me. Denver 3rd and all of their franchises are doing quite well. How is that over-extended? Not to mention that list is almost a joke. They use average average income instead of EBI(effective buying income). While people in Hartford make more money then people in KC it's cheaper to live in KC. KC has one of the highest EBI's in the United States which means per capita they have more money to spend on things like sports tickets. This also doesn't bring in to consideration buisness support which is one of the biggest factors and KC has proven that it has interest.

Funny you say that, because I think your pro-KC argument is one of the most over used argument. Got a link to your EBI stats? yes you can buy more in KC because although you make less, things cost less...except sports tickets. That's the problem with using EBI. If we were talking about buying gallons of milk that is one thing, but we are talking about expensive tickets to MLB and NFL. And now NHL or NBA? Ha!

You say Denver franchises are doing quite well, but obviously you didn't read the study carefully. We are talking about the ability of residents to financially support teams, and Denver is high up there (no pun intended) in terms of the lack of ability to financially supports its teams.

Sure the Broncos and perhaps Nuggets have no problems, but I would be curious to see the numbers behind the Avs the last few years. I bet their profits are dwindling.

And the Rockies? I think they only had a spike in profits when they opened up Coors Field, but I would suspect they are losing money these days.

Business support is great, but questions will be raised if like in Nashville, KC would be unable to sell out playoff games for NHL or NBA. You can have all the busines support in the world, but you need attendence. You need local fans to care.

I really think the pro-KC people are delusional if they think KC can get an NHL franchise (relocation or expansion) and not run into the problems Nashville has seen.
 

Sotnos

Registered User
Jul 8, 2002
10,885
1
Not here
www.boltprospects.com
And this means what exactly? Uhh nothing really. Most over used arguement on this site if you ask me. Denver 3rd and all of their franchises are doing quite well. How is that over-extended? Not to mention that list is almost a joke. They use average average income instead of EBI(effective buying income). While people in Hartford make more money then people in KC it's cheaper to live in KC. KC has one of the highest EBI's in the United States which means per capita they have more money to spend on things like sports tickets. This also doesn't bring in to consideration buisness support which is one of the biggest factors and KC has proven that it has interest.
Those aren't the only flaws. I looked at the maps they used for the "Tampa area", and at least as far as Tampa goes, that study was total bunk. They didn't include any counties east or south of Tampa (where the Tampa teams definitely draw from) but they included the much less populous counties northwards. If it was that wrong for Tampa, I wouldn't trust its validity for other areas without looking at the maps first.
 

Westguy13

Registered User
Apr 6, 2005
1,524
0
Not KC...
Funny you say that, because I think your pro-KC argument is one of the most over used argument. Got a link to your EBI stats? yes you can buy more in KC because although you make less, things cost less...except sports tickets. That's the problem with using EBI. If we were talking about buying gallons of milk that is one thing, but we are talking about expensive tickets to MLB and NFL. And now NHL or NBA? Ha!

You say Denver franchises are doing quite well, but obviously you didn't read the study carefully. We are talking about the ability of residents to financially support teams, and Denver is high up there (no pun intended) in terms of the lack of ability to financially supports its teams.

Sure the Broncos and perhaps Nuggets have no problems, but I would be curious to see the numbers behind the Avs the last few years. I bet their profits are dwindling.

And the Rockies? I think they only had a spike in profits when they opened up Coors Field, but I would suspect they are losing money these days.

Business support is great, but questions will be raised if like in Nashville, KC would be unable to sell out playoff games for NHL or NBA. You can have all the busines support in the world, but you need attendence. You need local fans to care.

Lol EBI is a money value EBI is the amount of money people have to spend on frivilous goods like entertainment. Your milk analogy makes no sense. If a KC native has around $3,000 EBI they are going to be able to buy the same amount of tickets as the person in Hartford with $3,000 EBI (assuming ticket prices would be the same.)

As for your Avs comment Avs are one of the most valuable franchises in the NHL according to forbes (I'll see if I can find the article it's a year or two old.) They ranked 5th or 6th I belive.

I really think the pro-KC people are delusional if they think KC can get an NHL franchise (relocation or expansion) and not run into the problems Nashville has seen.
And when you say something intelligent other then just "BIZ Journal sayz you market bad!!!" I'll care what you think :) Ohh and nobody is saying KC wouldn't run in to some problems. NHL is over extended it's self and very few franchises don't run in to problems do you seriously think a franchise in Hartford wouldn't have problems?
 

undraftedstlouis

Registered User
Sep 11, 2004
668
0
But you are missing the point. Even with no arena team, and only TWO major sports teams, they are one of the top overextended markets. That means people don't make enough money in KC to enjoy their two major sports teams. How can they afford to go to NHL games if according to the bizjournals survey, they can't afford to go to Chiefs and Royals.

Remember, overextended means: "The total amount of personal income the region generates is inadequate for its current teams, let alone any new ones." Sure KC will have corporate sponsorship, as evidenced by idiotic KC companies already locking up suites not knowing who will play there. But when attendence struggles, as these numbers indicate, the teams will want to leave. That is why AEG wants teams to be locked into KC for a long time, but teams considering moving won't do it.

And yes, I am also suggesting that AEG is completely nuts for being involved in building the Sprint Center.

P.S.
Also according to bizjournals, KC has no business getting an NBA or NHL team
http://www.bizjournals.com/specials/2006/0213/major_metros_chart.html?hbx=slide_sport_article

If AEG did this research, why on earth would they build an arena in KC?

Hell according to the survey, Joplin, MO is in a better position to support an NHL franchise than KC (but not by much).

Since that survey says Joplin is better positioned, maybe we can consider the survey isn't correct?

AEG didn't have to pay for the whole arena. Maybe KC's govt is set to lose some money. But that doesn't mean AEG got a bad deal or that a winter major league team won't work. KC isn't one of my favorite markets but the NHL could do worse. AEG is building up a network of concert venues that will make Ticketmaster blush in regards to how one goes about getting a stranglehold on the concert industry. I don't keep up with all their dealings, but I know within a couple years they'll have ~20,000 seat venues in or near NYC, Chicago, LA (indoor and outdoor), Dallas, Hartford (indoor), and KC (indoor) that they control (and several worldwide including London). They operate a bunch of indoor smaller venues. They have a good chance of getting control of concert operations in new stadiums in San Jose and DC. Losing millions now on KC's arena is a small amount to them considering the worth of controlling enough new venues in major league markets to dominate part of the concert industry (the mid-level tours).
 

iceman64

Registered User
Jan 5, 2007
413
0
Kansas City
Since that survey says Joplin is better positioned, maybe we can consider the survey isn't correct?

AEG didn't have to pay for the whole arena. Maybe KC's govt is set to lose some money. But that doesn't mean AEG got a bad deal or that a winter major league team won't work. KC isn't one of my favorite markets but the NHL could do worse. AEG is building up a network of concert venues that will make Ticketmaster blush in regards to how one goes about getting a stranglehold on the concert industry. I don't keep up with all their dealings, but I know within a couple years they'll have ~20,000 seat venues in or near NYC, Chicago, LA (indoor and outdoor), Dallas, Hartford (indoor), and KC (indoor) that they control (and several worldwide including London). They operate a bunch of indoor smaller venues. They have a good chance of getting control of concert operations in new stadiums in San Jose and DC. Losing millions now on KC's arena is a small amount to them considering the worth of controlling enough new venues in major league markets to dominate part of the concert industry (the mid-level tours).



if I remember correctly AEG went in for 30 million on the arena and to cover all cost overruns......arena was funded with hotel and rental car tax.
 

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