Player Discussion What do we have in Erik Gudbranson?

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MS

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Sutter was one of our most effective forwards last year and did a very good job for the team.

He was absolutely putrid when laughably mis-cast as a skill top-6 forward in his first two years but last year when finally in his correct role it was a different story. And people really need to adjust their opinions in light of new information.
 

Fire Benning

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Only question for me with Gudbranson, does his new contract make him virtually un-tradeable?....can't believe the rumors that the Ducks were actually kicking the tires on Brandon Sutter..Yikes... If the Canucks could ever unload those two contracts it would be "the Miracle at the Rog".

Well Gudbranson doesn't have trade protection and even as a non-rental, I wouldn't be surprised to see teams consider him a valuable piece. For what it's worth when the deal was signed, one team said they would "do it in a hearbeat"



As for Sutter, there would be definitely be teams interested, we know that a few teams called within a span of a week earlier this year, it comes down to whether or not they want to part with him, they seem overly attached to him for some reason.
 

Peter10

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Sutter was one of our most effective forwards last year and did a very good job for the team.

He was absolutely putrid when laughably mis-cast as a skill top-6 forward in his first two years but last year when finally in his correct role it was a different story. And people really need to adjust their opinions in light of new information.

Still well overpaid though
 

racerjoe

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Sutter was one of our most effective forwards last year and did a very good job for the team.

He was absolutely putrid when laughably mis-cast as a skill top-6 forward in his first two years but last year when finally in his correct role it was a different story. And people really need to adjust their opinions in light of new information.

Sure. But if we can trade him for assets it shouldn't even be a thought, we just should.
 

Canucks1096

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Why do you guys keep doing this..?

+/- is a horrible horrible stat.
Ok I will bite. What does Sutter bring that makes him being paid top dollars a good deal?

First question I am not sure how to answer that but you didn't answer my question. So you want Horvat to Play agaisnt top lines and take a lot of the defensive zone faceoffs so he can sacrifice his offence?

I never said it was a good deal but in the nhl life you will need to overpaid at times. Its just how it is. He is only overpaid by about 500 to 1 M. I am not sure why people are making such a big fuss about it.

Plus/minus if you don't use it with context. Yes it is a bad stat but not when you use it with some context. Think about this playing on a bad team, against top lines, so many defensive zone faceoffs. Have linemates that hardly have any offence and somehow end it up with +8. How?

With Sutter, you can have the kids playing easier mins. That will be good for their development. Playing against top lines, defensive zone faceoffs, penalty killing and still can produce 30 plus esp. Why dont the Canucks need a player like him?
 

Hit the post

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Sutter will only get 30+ points if he sees time on the power play (taking time away from players like Boeser, Horvat, etc.,).

Agree that he's solid enough defensively; but he's a black hole offensively to his linemates. Only will produce points if he's gifted offensive minutes (the already mentioned power play time).

But this thread is about Guds. A less useful player to the team than Sutter in that he can't even carry the 3rd pairing.
 
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Canucks1096

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Sutter will only get 30+ points if he sees time on the power play (taking time away from players like Boeser, Horvat, etc.,).

Agree that he's solid enough defensively; but he's a black hole offensively to his linemates. Only will produce points if he's gifted offensive minutes (the already mentioned power play time).

But this thread is about Guds. A less useful player to the team than Sutter in that he can't even carry the 3rd pairing.

Last season Sutter had 26 points in 61 games. None came on the pp. 5 other seasons he had season when he had esp from 26 to 30 points.

Last season when Sutter got pp time he still manage 26 esp. It amazes when people post, they believe in myths and generalizations and don't do there own research.

Even if Sutter played on pp going forward which he won't. I have no idea how that will impact Horvat and Boeser. So is Sutter going to replace Boeser on the left point? Horvat will be number 1 center until Pettersson transition to center. Sutter will not Horvat pp mins.

Brandon Sutter - Full Stats, Line Combos and Game Logs

Look at Sutter regular linemates Dorsett, Archibald, Motte, Gaunce, Granlund, Eriksson. The first four won't score much with any lines. Eriksson couldn't produce with any Canucks center the last couple years. You can make an argument for Granlund but I don't think many thought he can score 19 again.

So the first four players. If they don't play with Sutter. They will end up scoring a lot of points with someone else? I highly doubt that. Is Sutter preventing those four players from scoring?
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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It amazes when people post, they believe in myths and generalizations and don't do there own research.
26 points in 61 games isn't a 30+ point season - unless you're talking about "on pace".

In the prior season, he had 34 points in 81 games (8 of those points came on the power play).

In the 2012-13 season, he had 19 points in 48 games (4 of those points came on the power play).
In the 2014-15 season, he had 33 points in 80 games (5 of those points came on the power play).
In the 2011-12 season, he had 32 points in 82 games (3 of those points came on the power play).

Again, just my opinion that I don't think he'll get 30+ points next season without at least some of them coming off the power play - that's *ALL* I said (Note: That I didn't say TONS of minutes on the power play). You seem to imply I'm making a huge reach here. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Note, that I've *NEVER* said he's a useless player (but again, this is the Guds thread so I don't want to go OT any more here).
 
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PuckMunchkin

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First question I am not sure how to answer that but you didn't answer my question. So you want Horvat to Play agaisnt top lines and take a lot of the defensive zone faceoffs so he can sacrifice his offence?

I don't mind Horvat playing tough minutes. Maybe his 2 way game will take a leap forward when challenged?

I never said it was a good deal but in the nhl life you will need to overpaid at times. Its just how it is. He is only overpaid by about 500 to 1 M. I am not sure why people are making such a big fuss about it.

Fair enough. Its just the biggest concern for me. We are piling up bad contract after bad contract.

Plus/minus if you don't use it with context. Yes it is a bad stat but not when you use it with some context. Think about this playing on a bad team, against top lines, so many defensive zone faceoffs. Have linemates that hardly have any offence and somehow end it up with +8. How?

Too much variance. Affected by on ice save% and a number of other variables completely out of the players control. Jaromir Jagr was +6 during his 28 games played; And he wasn't good enough to stick with a NHL team.

I would just ignore +/- all together.

With Sutter, you can have the kids playing easier mins. That will be good for their development. Playing against top lines, defensive zone faceoffs, penalty killing and still can produce 30 plus esp. Why dont the Canucks need a player like him?

He is a declining asset and we need to have as many assets that are on the up swing.
Having a solid team isn't a priority to me right now. We are not looking to go on a run for the cup for ~4 years.
 

Canucks1096

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26 points in 61 games isn't a 30+ point season - unless you're talking about "on pace".

In the prior season, he had 34 points in 81 games (8 of those points came on the power play).

In the 2012-13 season, he had 19 points in 48 games (4 of those points came on the power play).
In the 2014-15 season, he had 33 points in 80 games (5 of those points came on the power play).
In the 2011-12 season, he had 32 points in 82 games (3 of those points came on the power play).

Again, just my opinion that I don't think he'll get 30+ points next season without at least some of them coming off the power play - that's *ALL* I said (Note: That I didn't say TONS of minutes on the power play). You seem to imply I'm making a huge reach here. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Note, that I've *NEVER* said he's a useless player (but again, this is the Guds thread so I don't want to go OT any more here).

But you did write "only will produce points if he is given offensive minutes ( pp mins). There was 6 seasons he did score between 26 to 30 points that wasn't on the pp which is really good considering the linemates and all the Dzone faceoff to gets. That proves your statement is not accurate. 26 to 30 esp that is solid numbers for a 3rd line player. It is a myth and generalization that Sutter can only produce if he gets pp time.

Sutter gets the worst wingers on the team. People don't need to worry that those wingers won't produce much with Sutter. Those wingers won't produce with any center. Sutter is hurting his wingers is another myth
 

Canucks1096

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I don't mind Horvat playing tough minutes. Maybe his 2 way game will take a leap forward when challenged?



Fair enough. Its just the biggest concern for me. We are piling up bad contract after bad contract.



Too much variance. Affected by on ice save% and a number of other variables completely out of the players control. Jaromir Jagr was +6 during his 28 games played; And he wasn't good enough to stick with a NHL team.

I would just ignore +/- all together.



He is a declining asset and we need to have as many assets that are on the up swing.
Having a solid team isn't a priority to me right now. We are not looking to go on a run for the cup for ~4 years.

Last time Horvat played those tough mins, he struggle and end the season with a -30. We went down that route before already. From that season to now Horvat overall game improve but his defensive game really hasn't improve that much.

Also Horvat will play with Boeser, Baer or Goldobin. You want those players to play the tough mins against the top player and be in the Dzone a lot to start their shift? Do you want Boeser to score less?

So long story short, you don't have an answer on why Sutter has a +8. If you don't have any evidences/numbers/examples to show me it's misleading. Won't it be more fair for this debate is you actually accept that argument. Pretend it I can't prove youe point wrong and I tell you to ignore it. Does that make much sense?

Jagr doesn't play against top player and a lot of offensive starts as well. Also he played very little games. Small sample size.
 
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timw33

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Game 1

-Classic Gudbranson, misplays the puck, gets tied up with teammate whose puck it was, loses his man, tap in:

-Caught flat footed, watching the puck, waving stick around:


Game 2

-Tavares takes advantage of that Gud/Campbell pairing:

Game 3

-Scored against on PK, completely screens his goalie and doesn't block the shot, always trying to look like he's doing something even though he's doing very little that's good: Pulock's power-play goal

-Scored against for game tying goal, standing still at blueline, then waves his stick uselessly, somehow lets his man get between the goal and him: Nielsen's PPG ties the game

-Note on the OT goal Gudbranson is not out there with his normal partner Cambell who gets scored on, perhaps the coach didn't trust him????

Game 4:

-Guddy PK time, gets desperate and leaves feet trying to block Tavares shot (opening up 2 clean tap in passing options) but Tavares just roofs it over top of Gudbranson's handsome jaw and into the top corner: Tavares roofs power-play goal

Game 5:

-Goes to Double OT: Gudbranson plays 33 minutes, but so does every other defenceman on the team.

Game 6:

-Up 1-0 with a minute left, Leddy burns Gudbranson, who loses body position and ends up reaching, yet again, can't prevent Leddy from getting the puck, then for some reason starts following Leddy TO THE POINT, at which point he realizes that he's the RS dman responsible for clearing his side of the net where a) the puck is and b) all the scoring threats are. Tavares, unopposed by a RS dman, digs out a puck and slams it home to tie the game at 3: Tavares' late game-tying goal

Imgur

-Another double OT game where he played about 30 minutes

Islanders scored 15 goals in the series, Gubranson was a factor on 8 of them (53.3%).
 

ziploc

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People wanna keep talking about Gudbranson's "incredible" playoffs that somehow merits more leniency for a trash player, so just trying to set the record straight.
I get it, and I don't disagree with your assessment, and I appreciate the work you do to back up your argument. I do however wish the argument (all sides) would be kept in a Gudbranson thread though, so we could genuinely discuss things related to Juolevi (and I understand that Guds is a potential d partner for him, but the thread is getting a little out of hand.)
 
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JT Milker

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Bad possession metrics.
Awesome on ice save%.

Also, small sample size.

You don't have to convince me he sucks, trust me.

You sure about this? Game sheets show he was -2 in Game 1 and -1 in Game 6 so that’s at least 3 ES goals (and none appear to have been SH).

His overall games went -2, 0, 0, +1, 0, and -1 so looks like he was a cumulative -2 in the 6 games (I mistakenly said 7).

Not horrible I suppose but hardly “beast”.

Also 3 games went to OT and 2 games went to 2OT so using average TOI as some measure of how “great” he played is crazy.

According to natural stattrick.
 

MS

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I'm not sure what you're trying to spin here. Gudbranson led all Florida D in ice time in that playoff year. If you compare his relative regular season totals, he was clearly trusted by Gallant in the playoffs. If you go by shifts, Keith Ballard had a whole lot more shifts per game than Aaron Rome during our Cup Finals run. I think anyone who watched our playoff run that year would not think AV trusted Ballard more than Rome.

Do you even know what hazing means?

Gallant trusted Kulikov to play over 25 minutes, too, and hopefully nobody will disagree with the statement that Kulikov absolutely sucks.
 

F A N

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Gallant trusted Kulikov to play over 25 minutes, too, and hopefully nobody will disagree with the statement that Kulikov absolutely sucks.

Kulikov was good that year. Do you disagree?
 

VanJack

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Watching guys like Sbisa, Engelland, McNabb and Schmidt thrive in Vegas this year, I still believe Gudbranson could fulfill a useful role with the Canucks....unfortunately he'll never be the 'foundational' d-man that Jimbo claimed he was getting. And of course having coughed up valuable assets to acquire him, he was forced to overpay him to avoid free agency.

But I suppose as the salary cap steadily creeps upward, the $4m-plus contracts for Gudbranson and Sutter will look less onerous. Just have to accept the fact that they'll never produce to the level of their pay-grades.
 

pabst blue ribbon

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Screenshot_20180601_120615.jpg


Screenshot_20180601_120647.jpg
 
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VancouverJagger

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Well Gudbranson doesn't have trade protection and even as a non-rental, I wouldn't be surprised to see teams consider him a valuable piece. For what it's worth when the deal was signed, one team said they would "do it in a hearbeat"



As for Sutter, there would be definitely be teams interested, we know that a few teams called within a span of a week earlier this year, it comes down to whether or not they want to part with him, they seem overly attached to him for some reason.


Yeah - I was just sitting with my buddy yesterday who is close to Linden and he told me that when Guddy signed that contract 3 teams reached out to them and said "Ohhh - that's a very good contract"

Take that for what you will however the point is that around the league this contract was seen as very reasonable and is actually a plus for us.........hard for some of us to believe I know........
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

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Game 1

-Classic Gudbranson, misplays the puck, gets tied up with teammate whose puck it was, loses his man, tap in:

-Caught flat footed, watching the puck, waving stick around:


Game 2

-Tavares takes advantage of that Gud/Campbell pairing:

Game 3

-Scored against on PK, completely screens his goalie and doesn't block the shot, always trying to look like he's doing something even though he's doing very little that's good: Pulock's power-play goal

-Scored against for game tying goal, standing still at blueline, then waves his stick uselessly, somehow lets his man get between the goal and him: Nielsen's PPG ties the game

-Note on the OT goal Gudbranson is not out there with his normal partner Cambell who gets scored on, perhaps the coach didn't trust him????

Game 4:

-Guddy PK time, gets desperate and leaves feet trying to block Tavares shot (opening up 2 clean tap in passing options) but Tavares just roofs it over top of Gudbranson's handsome jaw and into the top corner: Tavares roofs power-play goal

Game 5:

-Goes to Double OT: Gudbranson plays 33 minutes, but so does every other defenceman on the team.

Game 6:

-Up 1-0 with a minute left, Leddy burns Gudbranson, who loses body position and ends up reaching, yet again, can't prevent Leddy from getting the puck, then for some reason starts following Leddy TO THE POINT, at which point he realizes that he's the RS dman responsible for clearing his side of the net where a) the puck is and b) all the scoring threats are. Tavares, unopposed by a RS dman, digs out a puck and slams it home to tie the game at 3: Tavares' late game-tying goal

Imgur

-Another double OT game where he played about 30 minutes

Islanders scored 15 goals in the series, Gubranson was a factor on 8 of them (53.3%).

Elliot Friedman,2016
"Gerard Gallant would never admit it (at least not before Sunday), but he hated seeing

Erik Gudbranson traded. In a cap world, someone had to go. Losing him and Willie Mitchell changed the complexion of the blue line. Gallant valued Gudbranson’s game, how hard he could make it on opposing forwards. But Florida’s front office values a different kind of defender, and with one season remaining until his free agency, they weren’t going to ante up for Gudbranson’s skillset.
That, as much as anything else, is why Gallant (and close friend Mike Kelly) are no longer on the Florida bench. There was plenty of anger in the NHL community over the dismissal. There were a lot of surprised and angry texts from people I rarely hear from. Gallant righted a wayward ship and won a franchise-record 47 games last season, getting them to the playoffs for the second time in 15 years."
 

PuckMunchkin

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Yeah - I was just sitting with my buddy yesterday who is close to Linden and he told me that when Guddy signed that contract 3 teams reached out to them and said "Ohhh - that's a very good contract"

Take that for what you will however the point is that around the league this contract was seen as very reasonable and is actually a plus for us.........hard for some of us to believe I know........

Im actually much closer to your buddy then you are and he told me he was pranking you hard when he told you this.
 
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