What are the best advanced analytics to measure a player?

[Shaffer]

Can someone help me out? I normally use Corsi, Corsi rel, and zone start%

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[Sojourn]

I think you need to be more specific on what you're trying to measure.

 

[Shaffer]

I think you need to be more specific on what you're trying to measure.

I don’t know how to word it

 

[MessierII]

There is no magic good player bad player stat.

 

[Canadiens1958]

There is no magic good player bad player stat.

Very basic stat TOI. Bad players get very little TOI compared to the good.

 

[Captain Bowie]

Very basic stat TOI. Bad players get very little TOI compared to the good.

But every team has the same amount of ice time to give, regardless of how good their players are.

 

[Canadiens1958]

But every team has the same amount of ice time to give, regardless of how good their players are.

Applies within a team. Results apply further triage.

 

[lomiller1]

There is no magic good player bad player stat.

There is no perfect stat, but WAR and XPM certainly qualifies as useful. As far as I know though, the versions of that demonstrably outperform Rel Corsi for predicting future outcomes are no longer publicly accessible since their creator (Dawson Sprigings) was hired by Colorado last fall.

 

[613Leafer]

I like looking at goals against/60 relative to teammates, while also considering zone starts/quality of competition.

Not perfect, but if you have a good goals against relative to teammates while also taking on tougher zone starts/QoC, it's indicative that you're an above average player defensively (or at least on an above average line defensively). Conversely if you have a high goals against relative to teammates while also getting preferential zone starts/QoC, it's a good indication you're not good defensively (or at least on a poor line defensively).

Like others have said, there's no particularly great stat in hockey though. Whatever stat you're looking, whether it's corsi or whatever, I think trying to give it a bit of context with zone starts/QoC can be helpful.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Can someone help me out? I normally use Corsi, Corsi rel, and zone start%

I think zone start % is a little overused. It's only calculated on shifts that start with a faceoff. Realize how many NHL changes are on the fly.

as for what's best to use, it depends on what you want to know. For example there's no such stat that measures a players defensive ability but you can generally get a pretty good idea using a number of stats. First of all I'd look at the corsi against and then compare it to teammates or simply look at the relative corsi. Then I'd take a look at scoring chance against stats, and high danger against stats. It's possible somebody is on the ice for a lot of shots against compared to his peers, but allows a lot less higher quality chances than his peers. This often would mean said player does a good job of keeping the other team to the outside.

 

[blood gin]

Your eyeballs

 

[Psych0dad]

Applies within a team. Results apply further triage.

No it doesn't because this assumes the coach always makes correct choices.

 

[Doctor No]

Your eyeballs

Your eyeballs aren't as good as you think that they are. You may not be familiar with narrative bias or confirmation bias, but your brain sure is.

If you want to ignore analytics, that's your prerogative. Openly mocking the entire category of data? That seems foolish.

(Anyone worth paying attention to in the analytics community uses numbers to supplement what they're seeing first-hand, by the way. The story of analytics nerds sitting in their basement having never watched a hockey game is a myth, generally propagated by the same individuals who don't want to be bothered with analytics and so have decided that no one else should bother, either.)

 

[Psych0dad]

WAR82.

G60 against +/-

If anyone has a working site at hand, let me know. I'd like to check Laines WAR82 with and without Bryan Little.

 

[Canadiens1958]

No it doesn't because this assumes the coach always makes correct choices.

You are referring to metrics used to evaluate coaches. Their decision making and other attributes.

We are discussing players.