What about Brown?

[Liminality]

Johnsson, Kapanen?

Johnsson left wing, Kapanen is not 100% better than Brown yet.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Johnsson left wing, Kapanen is not 100% better than Brown yet.

Lol. Kapanen was on pace for more goals than Brown last year saddled to partial fourth line minutes while Brown player regularly with Kadri, Marleau and Matthews while playing PP time with Matthews, Nylander, Marleau all year long.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-xxx-Kapanen
Martin-xxx-Brown

There’s no reason he should be a “lock” for this team, especially in the top 9. He should have to work to make this team and likely be the fourth line winger but if someone out plays him I wouldn’t be against press box duty. Unfortunately Babcock has an unhealthy opinion of him and that won’t be the case and he’ll start the year on the Kadri line

 

[Liminality]

Lol. Kapanen was on pace for more goals than Brown last year saddled to partial fourth line minutes while Brown player regularly with Kadri, Marleau and Matthews while playing PP time with Matthews, Nylander, Marleau all year long.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-xxx-Kapanen
Martin-xxx-Brown

There’s no reason he should be a “lock” for this team, especially in the top 9. He should have to work to make this team and likely be the fourth line winger but if someone out plays him I wouldn’t be against press box duty. Unfortunately Babcock has an unhealthy opinion of him and that won’t be the case and he’ll start the year on the Kadri line

Brown played the most minutes with Bozak and JVR, being the forechecking and defensive presence on that line. Averaged 1:10 minutes on the PP so not as often as you thought.

Everything you have said about Brown is the same position Kapanen is in but Brown has proven more. Kapanen should have to work to make this team but I'm not going to blindly blame the coach if someone makes it higher up the lineup than someone else.

Not sure why everyone is underrating Brown again all of a sudden.

 

[PromisedLand]

Brown can play top6 if needed, PKs well; is defensively responsible and works his butt off.

Scored 20 goals in a top 9 role in 2016-2017 season; well liked by his team mates and trusted by the coaching staff. Signed to a nice cheap contract and fulfills many situational requirements for the team even strength, special teams

He aint going anywhere

 

[-DeMo-]

Lol. Kapanen was on pace for more goals than Brown last year saddled to partial fourth line minutes while Brown player regularly with Kadri, Marleau and Matthews while playing PP time with Matthews, Nylander, Marleau all year long.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-xxx-Kapanen
Martin-xxx-Brown

There’s no reason he should be a “lock” for this team, especially in the top 9. He should have to work to make this team and likely be the fourth line winger but if someone out plays him I wouldn’t be against press box duty. Unfortunately Babcock has an unhealthy opinion of him and that won’t be the case and he’ll start the year on the Kadri line

Brown started on the 4th line aswell last year with Moore/Fehr/martin, and started the season in the first 17 games by putting up 11 points in that span which pushed him up the lineup even tho he only averaged 10:45 of ES minutes(10th among forwards) while Kapanen averaged 10:08 so basically 1 shift less. Kapanen also averaged 1:05 PP time vs Brown's 1:42. only 1 of those 11 points came on the PP. so when given similar ice time Brown still out pointed Kapanen in 17 games while Kapanen only managed 9 points in 38. and the Majority of games Kapanen played Martin/Fehr/Moore were not in the lineup he actually had better linemates in the 4th line role then Brown had.

 

[pulfordfan]

This young man last year in Jr had 128 points in 68 games, When he turned pro in th AHL this skinny kid was just under a ppg, in the nhl he only had one season -2, the rest has been in the plus, drafted 156th in the 6th round, he has succeeded in every level, he's a Toronto guy, signed a home town contract, dose not whine, only works hard, trains hard gets bigger and stronger, to compare him to guys that have not had a full season in the NHL is not correct. Not saying the other guys are not as good as him, I'll wait till they have a couple seasons under their belt before I'll judge. But right now I think Connor is better.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Kapanen was on pace for more goals than Brown this year and was stuck with semi regular playing time on the fourth line and no PP time. Brown often played with Kadri, Marleau and occasionally Auston Matthews all year long and was stapled to a PP that featured Matthews, Nylander and Marleau

Kap was on pace for 15 goals, Brown had 14 so not a really big difference. Brown also had like 17 ES goals the season before that.

Ya Brown did not play with Kadri or Matthews much this year at all. He played mainly on the 4th line and then on the 3rd line with Bozak after Marner moved up to play with Kadri. He also hardly played any PP time this year. Not sure what your talking about.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

That's really the only way I see Brown getting minutes needed, if Dubas doesn't add a 3rd C, which I don't see happening. I think right now, especially while 16/34 are on ELCs next season, the goal is to load up as much as possible. So, unless Dubas fails on that front, I see the top 9 shaking out something like this:

Hyman - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - (Center) - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Kapanen

Maybe he takes Kapanen's spot on Kadri's wing, but that line had very little success last season, so I don't see Babs going back to it this season.

I also don't think it's people seeing them in a different tier, more in the same tier and likely cheaper combined than Brown costs on his own.

Agreed but I doubt the Leafs sign a #2C. That is Kadri's spot in my mind.

I just feel like Babcock will play Brown higher in the lineup than Kap due to seniority and the trust he has shown Brown the last few years. I could be wrong of course but I don't think we will see Brown on the 4th line next year.

Brown took a discount on his current contract I feel so I doubt AJ and Kap will be cheaper combined than Brown as they are due for new contracts soon.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I don't think people are saying AJ and Kappy are in a different tier than Brown. They're saying (At least from what I've seen) that they're all in the same tier, but AJ/Kappy are higher in that tier). You have to look at the context of the situation for AJ/Kappy vs Brown too. Connor Brown got to play NA hockey his whole life. AJ came from Sweden to AHL in 2016/2017 (Brown's 1st year in the NHL), where he had to adapt to North American hockey. Kappy came when he was 18. He put up a 0.94 PPG in the AHL at the same age (20 and 21 year old seasons) Brown put up 0.82 PPG. Kapanen is 2 years younger, so he's on the exact same track as Brown to the NHL.

The biggest reason why I have AJ/Kappy higher than Brown in the future (SAME tier though), is that AJ/Kappy drive their own lines and create their own chances (you can literally see the fifty thousand breakaways Kappy gets). That's not a shot at Brown, Brown can play with anyone and do well while AJ/Kappy probably can't.

Fair enough, I don't see AJ/Kap as higher in that same tier than Brown. Haven't really done anything to prove they are better than Brown at this point. Everything is just projections from AHL stats or the fact AJ had an amazing Calder cup performance. Until I see AJ or Kap put up 20 goals I won't classify them as better than Brown.

I'm certainly not saying AJ or Kap will be worse than Brown in the future, I just don't think they are better players yet and it is guaranteed they will be better in the future.

Up until this point Brown has been used purely as a shut down winger which he isn't. When watching him on the Bozak line this year he always took up defensive positioning, covering the pinch etc. If he isn't relied on to carry 100% of the defensive load I expect we will see better offensive production from him and see him driving his line more. Also gotta give Gards a lot of credit for Kap's many many breakaways haha.

 

[Boutette]

Jeez, guys. Brown and Kapanen both have 20+ goal and 40+ point potential even as they offer similar but slightly different skillsets. Kapanen's speed makes him more of a specialist who thrives creating offense off the rush, but needs linemates who can keep up with him to achieve his potential, much like Grabner, Brown has shown he is more adaptable all round, so is suited for a wider range of linemates, but isn't able to cause the chaos on the other side as Kapanen can with his sheer speed. There's no more reason to put them into the Thunderdome any more than Nylander and Marner. They are both highly useful pieces when properly played and pretty comparable at this point in value, like a Knight in chess and a Bishop.

 

[Boutette]

Fair enough, I don't see AJ/Kap as higher in that same tier than Brown. Haven't really done anything to prove they are better than Brown at this point. Everything is just projections from AHL stats or the fact AJ had an amazing Calder cup performance. Until I see AJ or Kap put up 20 goals I won't classify them as better than Brown.

I'm certainly not saying AJ or Kap will be worse than Brown in the future, I just don't think they are better players yet and it is guaranteed they will be better in the future.

Up until this point Brown has been used purely as a shut down winger which he isn't. When watching him on the Bozak line this year he always took up defensive positioning, covering the pinch etc. If he isn't relied on to carry 100% of the defensive load I expect we will see better offensive production from him and see him driving his line more. Also gotta give Gards a lot of credit for Kap's many many breakaways haha.

And like Grabner, until Kapanen actually has linemates similar to what the Rangers had with Grabner, IE a Hayes and a Miller analog set, you aren't going to see his real potential. We've seen Brown's potential, a steady 20+/20+ player.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

And like Grabner, until Kapanen actually has linemates similar to what the Rangers had with Grabner, IE a Hayes and a Miller analog set, you aren't going to see his real potential. We've seen Brown's potential, a steady 20+/20+ player.

That could very well be true. I'm not commenting on who will be a better player in the future. I'm largely commenting on the fact that AJ/Kap are not better players than Brown right now and that I don't think both of them will play significantly more ice time than Brown like I've seen in many proposed lineups.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Great glue guy who can be slotted up and down the lineup.

Also on a good contract.

However, wouldn't hesitate to trade him for a D upgrade.

Also, a lot of his value is tied to his cap hit but down the road if he wants to get a big paycheque then you replace him with someone cheap. He's not the type to get too attached to long-term. But I'd say the same about Grundstrom, Kapanen, Johnsson and Hyman.

 

[Paladin2799]

Brown is the definition of the modern 3rd line winger.

Fast, hard checking, good defensively, can score 30-40, and is just a mobile effective player. He can play 2nd line due to injuries and we should be able to get him on a long term reasonable contract. He reminds me a TON of Helm from Detroit albeit different positions. I agree with the poster above, I hold onto him as long as I can, but hes right on that line of good but not too good that he could be included in a deal for a stud.

 

[Liminality]

Brown is the definition of the modern 3rd line winger.

Fast, hard checking, good defensively, can score 30-40, and is just a mobile effective player. He can play 2nd line due to injuries and we should be able to get him on a long term reasonable contract. He reminds me a TON of Helm from Detroit albeit different positions. I agree with the poster above, I hold onto him as long as I can, but hes right on that line of good but not too good that he could be included in a deal for a stud.

Definitely, I'm willing to trade him if the price is right but I don't think people should be downplaying his talents. I see him as you described and he's a glue player to play on any line as a fill in.

 

[diceman934]

I absolutely hate the takes that Babcock plays him over better players as that is absolutely wrong. Babcock plays him because he flat out deserves to be on the ice over more skilled but less engaged players.

Lots of elements goes in to being a good NHL player and points are a big part but not at the cost of poor defensive play and fear.

Would I lose any sleep over him being traded not at all but the return needs to make sense.
Hyman is in the same boat. He and Brown play a very similar unappreciated role for us and now that our other favourite targets are gone Brown jumps into the line as players who are minimized.
Everyone has Penciled in Johnsson high up in the lineup but he still has a lot to prove as an NHL player. He played on the 4th line late in the season and faced 4th line players. Yes he played very well in the AHL but against AHL players. He will need to convince Babcock that he is willing to pay the price to become more then a bottom 6 winger. Let’s hope he can because it is not a forgone conclusion that he Will.

Brown has earned a place in the top 9 going into this season it is his to lose.

 

[Boutette]

Brown started on the 4th line aswell last year with Moore/Fehr/martin, and started the season in the first 17 games by putting up 11 points in that span which pushed him up the lineup even tho he only averaged 10:45 of ES minutes(10th among forwards) while Kapanen averaged 10:08 so basically 1 shift less. Kapanen also averaged 1:05 PP time vs Brown's 1:42. only 1 of those 11 points came on the PP. so when given similar ice time Brown still out pointed Kapanen in 17 games while Kapanen only managed 9 points in 38. and the Majority of games Kapanen played Martin/Fehr/Moore were not in the lineup he actually had better linemates in the 4th line role then Brown had.

Are you serious? You claim that broken down slowpokes like Komarov and Plekanec (he of the zero goals in 17 games after he joined the leafs) who visibly could not remotely keep up with Kapanen were better linemates? By what possible measure? They contributed almost zero offence when the line was on the ice. he was the only one of the three with any kind of energy at all. I bet you are unable to conceive why Grabner was a 25+ goal scorer for the Rangers, yet couldn't even manage even 10 with the leafs too.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Brown played the most minutes with Bozak and JVR, being the forechecking and defensive presence on that line. Averaged 1:10 minutes on the PP so not as often as you thought.

Everything you have said about Brown is the same position Kapanen is in but Brown has proven more. Kapanen should have to work to make this team but I'm not going to blindly blame the coach if someone makes it higher up the lineup than someone else.

Not sure why everyone is underrating Brown again all of a sudden.

Right, my bad. He was on the most sheltered, most offensive zone heavy time AND got premier PP time with Matthews Nylander and Marleau. And scored 9 times

 

[Muston Atthews]

Brown started on the 4th line aswell last year with Moore/Fehr/martin, and started the season in the first 17 games by putting up 11 points in that span which pushed him up the lineup even tho he only averaged 10:45 of ES minutes(10th among forwards) while Kapanen averaged 10:08 so basically 1 shift less. Kapanen also averaged 1:05 PP time vs Brown's 1:42. only 1 of those 11 points came on the PP. so when given similar ice time Brown still out pointed Kapanen in 17 games while Kapanen only managed 9 points in 38. and the Majority of games Kapanen played Martin/Fehr/Moore were not in the lineup he actually had better linemates in the 4th line role then Brown had.

And this year Brown was put on a pure offensive line that got steady o zone starts and premier PP time and Kapanen still outpaced him. I don’t care about two years ago. Kapanen was in and out of the line up playing with Martin.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Kap was on pace for 15 goals, Brown had 14 so not a really big difference. Brown also had like 17 ES goals the season before that.

Ya Brown did not play with Kadri or Matthews much this year at all. He played mainly on the 4th line and then on the 3rd line with Bozak after Marner moved up to play with Kadri. He also hardly played any PP time this year. Not sure what your talking about.

My bad, he played on Bozak and JVRs line that was offensive zone start heavy and he played on the Matthews PP unit pretty much all year, not sure what you’re talking about.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

My bad, he played on Bozak and JVRs line that was offensive zone start heavy and he played on the Matthews PP unit pretty much all year, not sure what you’re talking about.

Ya played a large portion of the season with Martin, Moore etc on the 4th line then got moved to the Bozak line to carry the defensive load and lower the goals/shots against.

Matthews, Nylander, Marleua all played almost 1 minute more PP time per game than Brown. Brown certainly was not stapled to Matthews PP unit the entire year. He played on that PP unit when it was really struggling for a decent amount of time but he wasn't being fed that much PP time.

Edit: it is funny to see your argument completely change once I corrected you on where Brown actually played this year (I.e. not with Matthews or Kadri)....

 

[Menzinger]

Nice guy, works hard.

But suspect his reputation is greater than his on-ice impact. I can potentially see him getting traded for a Dermott-like RHD.

 

[Stephen]

He's a jack of all trades guy who can chip in in all situations up and down the line up and is smarter than his pure athletic ability, but honestly, I'd look to upgrade that position with a better athlete at some point as the team gets better.

 

[Gabriel426]

I will move Brown in a heart beat.
Even if Willie is move to the middle. I think Hyman will be move to Matthews right side and have someone like AJ on his left. You kept the Marleau-Kadri-Marner line as is. Gundy-Willie-Kap for another line and you will end up with Brown on the 4th line winger.

 

[robertmac43]

He is gret and we are only playing 2.1 I would say keep him for sure